Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Anyhow' date=' let's talk about S Waugh and Bevan now - who do you think was better?[/quote'] Steve Waugh seems technically sound yet sucks at ODIs... Bevan has hard time staying in the middle for session after session in Tests while he rocks at the faster game... Tests: Waugh > Bevan Odi Bevan > Waugh Over all I want to say Bevan = S Waugh...but I won't because i haven't seen a lot of their play...
graphic23 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Tendulkar has played 1 single T20..so you want me to take that into account? sensible...:clap: you do realize that T20 and Twenty20 are two different things right? ICC's 20 over games called T20 All the other 20 over games are called Twenty20 (IPL etc.) since the two resemble very closely..... It's funny how one wing of people are defending lax based on the fact that he has not played T20 so he can't be compared... Other is only sticking to Tests NO ONE HAS THE GUTS TO TOUCH ODIs I can touch ODIs and show how poorly Yuvraj has fared outside the subcontinent but you wouldn't want to see that now, would you? And as the title indicates and as do all of my arguments so far, I've been maintaining that inspite of Yuvraj's success in ODIs, Laxman is a better batsman. I dont know how you can completely ignore the point.
vvvslaxman Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Yuvraj in Australia, (T20, First calss, Test, ODI every thing .. so that covers "over all" factor) http://stats.cricinfo.com/ausvind/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?class=13;id=3156;type=tour Yuvraj 13 Matchces 230 runs 15.33 Avge Laxman 5 matches 367 runs 40.77 avge It is not just about the stats. It is about how clueless he was against Brett Lee. He was beaten ball after ball after ball.. .
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Um, this is a :WTF: moment. from Wikipedia (I can't believe I have to do this): Ok, now that we are clear with the terminology: Mr. Genius, Twenty20 matches played between two countries is denoted T20I (as in T20 International). Sachin has played 1(!) T20I game for India. VVS Laxman has played... 0! But you are comparing VVS' T20 stats to Yuvraj's and refuse to compare Tendulkar's to Yuvraj's. Why? Also, as Mr. Wicket pointed out, if we look at the # of games that Sachin's played (25), it is bigger than the # of games Laxman has played (16 and remember, not one internat'l game). Pray tell me how you refuse to compare Tendulkar to Yuvraj Singh but want to compare Laxman to Yuvraj Singh, when YS has played 244 ODIs compared to Laxman's 86, and Laxman has played 16 T20s in all compared to Yuvraj's 57. And I've pointed out that in those 86 matches, Laxman has played excellent innings vs. the best attack of his generation that Yuvraj has yet to match - considering he's got 3 centuries vs. Australia inspite of playing more games, and 2 of those are at Hyderabad ! I am comparing how UV stands in a 20 over format compared to Lax. In UV's case he has played both T20 and Twenty20... Lax has only played Twenty20 hence, comparing UV's (T20+ Twenty20) lax's (Twenty20) If you guys can continuously compare UV's test career with Lax...Why can't I compare the two's Odi careers? :nervous:
The Outsider Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Bevan = S Waugh...but I won't because i haven't seen a lot of their play... I think I am getting too old to follow this game now when people have started rating Bevan and Waugh as equal. I was willing to give some benefit of doubt in the Yuvraj and Laxman thing because one might have strong personal favorites since the play for India. But if you are going analyze and tell me Bevan and Waugh were equal cricketers I am really done! Carry on!:yay:
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Yuvraj in Australia, (T20, First calss, Test, ODI every thing .. so that covers "over all" factor) http://stats.cricinfo.com/ausvind/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?class=13;id=3156;type=tour Yuvraj 13 Matchces 230 runs 15.33 Avge Laxman 5 matches 367 runs 40.77 avge It is not just about the stats. It is about how clueless he was against Brett Lee. He was beaten ball after ball after ball.. . Let's take top 8 teams into account Two things to back you guys up - Lax's performance against OZ and his test average of 45...any thing else? :wall:
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 I think I am getting too old to follow this game now when people have started rating Bevan and Waugh as equal. I was willing to give some benefit of doubt in the Yuvraj and Laxman thing because one might have strong personal favorites since the play for India. But if you are going analyze and tell me Bevan and Waugh were equal cricketers I am really done! Carry on!:yay: did I not say that....I have not seen them play a lot? ...I was going by the stats only...:giggle: what do the stats say? :hmmm:
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 any ways... I am out of this thread... I will still say that UV is better than Lax...NO ONE, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING CAN CHANGE MY MIND...WHY EVEN TRY?
Sooda Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 ok... let me get my point clear here before people start taking different meanings and dilute my point. For me, ONE WHO CAN SUCCEED IN CRICKET REGARDLESS OF THE FORMAT IS THE TRUE CHAMPION. I CONSIDER THAT AS ADJUSTING TO THE SITUATION. ONE WHO CAN ONLY PLAY ONE KIND OF THE FORMAT IS NOT AD GOOD TO THE ONE WHO CAN PLAY ALL FORMATS. That, Im afraid is where youre wrong. The greatest batsmen are batsmen who are great test batsmen. ODIs are just by the by, ask the people who matter i.e the PLAYERS. They will tell you that success in test cricket is first and foremost for them. Heck 19 year old Adrian Bharath said as much after his debut ton versus Aus. Good ODI players are just that- good ODI players. You dont see the likes of Dean Jones, Micheal Bevan ranked as the greatest batsmen ever because they were not so good at test cricket. Despite being fantastic ODI players. This point is particularly pertinent in Jones' case because (unlike Bevan) he had a good run in test cricket ended up with an good- not great- record Like Outsider says- S Waugh, one of the great batsmen of the last 15 years. Mediocre ODI record. Lets take it step further- Dravid is an all time great- widely accepted fact, a pretty good ODI batsman too. Yuvraj is a better ODI batsman than both those guys- does that make him a better batsman 'overall'?
graphic23 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Well yeah, we bring up Australia because its the best attack of this generation by a mile and then some more. I'm not going to consider it meaningful to bring in how Yuvraj bashed Rana Naved-Ul-Hasan of Pakistan and Mohd. Ashraful's offspin bowling and say that he's better than Laxman!
Karan114 Posted November 30, 2009 Author Posted November 30, 2009 has played both T20 and Twenty20... Lax has only played Twenty20 :wall: graphic has already explained this to you as one might to a baby...but you still don't get it! What do you mean, one has played T20 and Twenty20 and the other Twenty20 only?!
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 That, Im afraid is where youre wrong. The greatest batsmen are batsmen who are great test batsmen. ODIs are just by the by, ask the people who matter i.e the PLAYERS. They will tell you that success in test cricket is first and foremost for them. Heck 19 year old Adrian Bharath said as much after his debut ton versus Aus. Good ODI players are just that- good ODI players. You dont see the likes of Dean Jones, Micheal Bevan ranked as the greatest batsmen ever because they were not so good at test cricket. Despite being fantastic ODI players. This point is particularly pertinent in Jones' case because (unlike Bevan) he had a good run in test cricket ended up with an good- not great- record Like Outsider says- S Waugh, one of the great batsmen of the last 15 years. Mediocre ODI record. Lets take it step further- Dravid is an all time great- widely accepted fact, a pretty good ODI batsman too. Yuvraj is a better ODI batsman than both those guys- does that make him a better batsman 'overall'? FOR ME, I give Tests and Odi's similar weight hence, there is no way we can convince each other... i feel that you are wrong and you will feel that I am wrong plus, the timing of this debate has come while three test competitions are going on. Had it come when UV was smashing in the ODI's...I would not have been alone on one side with 10 others attacking on me
vvvslaxman Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Errr.....Bevan averages about twice as much as Waugh in ODIs. Let's take top 8 teams into account Two things to back you guys up - Lax's performance against OZ and his test average of 45...any thing else? :wall: Well many avid cricket fans would rate Lax's performance against OZ 10 times better than Yuvi's entire career. I do not rate one dayers as a format which test the entire skills of batsmen. It is a pyjama cricket. One doesn't have to be successful in pyjama cricket to be regarded as good or great batsman. But he must be successful in Tests to be regarded as one. I do not care if Laxman averages 0 in one dayers. He is still better than Yuvraj until Yuvi does well outside subcontinent in Tests.
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 :wall: graphic has already explained this to you as one might to a baby...but you still don't get it! What do you mean, one has played T20 and Twenty20 and the other Twenty20 only?! find out your self http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/36084.html
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 Well many avid cricket fans would rate Lax's performance against OZ 10 times better than Yuvi's entire career. I do not rate one dayers as a format which test the entire skills of batsmen. It is a pyjama cricket. One doesn't have to be successful in pyjama cricket to be regarded as good or great batsman. But he must be successful in Tests to be regarded as one. I do not care if Laxman averages 0 in one dayers. He is still better than Yuvraj until Yuvi does well outside subcontinent in Tests. do I have the right to keep my own opinion or do I have to agree with w/e you have opinionated?
vvvslaxman Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 plus, the timing of this debate has come while three test competitions are going on. Had it come when UV was smashing in the ODI's...I would not have been alone on one side with 10 others attacking on me No even if it comes on the back of 5 double centuries by Yuvraj in one dayers it is still not going to change my mind as i already explained one dayer is a heavily batsmen oriented game where big hitters and sloggers outshine more classical batsmen. That doesn't mean they are better than them. T20 is nothing but glorified nets where guys like Yusuf Pathan, Asnodkar can be good at.
vvvslaxman Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 do I have the right to keep my own opinion or do I have to agree with w/e you have opinionated? Yes you do. Sure ;) You can have your opinion. You don't have to agree.
The Outsider Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 BTW, just for the kicks - Laxman averages higher than Yuvraj even in the ODIs they've played together : Laxman - 33.13 Yuvraj - 30.42
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 No even if it comes on the back of 5 double centuries by Yuvraj in one dayers it is still not going to change my mind as i already explained one dayer is a heavily batsmen oriented game where big hitters and sloggers outshine more classical batsmen. That doesn't mean they are better than them. T20 is nothing but glorified nets where guys like Yusuf Pathan' date=' Asnodkar can be good at.[/quote'] and laxman fails at a heavily batsman oriented version of cricket...:hmmm:
Jersey #10 Posted November 30, 2009 Posted November 30, 2009 BTW, just for the kicks - Laxman averages higher than Yuvraj even in the ODIs they've played together : Laxman - 33.13 Yuvraj - 30.42 then why was lax kicked out? here is the other half...think on the lines of STRIKE RATE... you can not keep your spot in Odi's by playing like a test player...
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