Our Underrated Pace Attack

[Dhondy]

At Kanpur, it was Sreesanth with his five-fer who set things up. At Bombay, Zaheer chipped in with another 5-fer. These wickets have come at absolutely vital moments. India were struggling for breakthroughs at Kanpur when Sreesanth came up with his inspiring spell. Yesterday, India looked to have hit a brick wall against the SL top order when first Sreesanth found reverse swing from nowhere and then Zaheer turned in a memorable spell to dismiss Jaya & Samaraweera. With very little response off the pitch, he used his guile, working on angles on bounce to outwit experienced, highly rated batsmen. And then a jaffa this morning to get the centurian Sanga. Top drawer stuff. The spinners looked uninspiring and at best mediocre, picking up relatively inexpensive wickets after the fast men had done the job. I'll say this again-India's pace attack is underrated and have been the single biggest factor in all our recent overseas wins- Jo'berg, Nottingham, Perth, Hamilton...Now they are delivering at home. I'd exhort the selectors to bring in the gem that Ishant is and go in with a 3 pace-1 spin attack in all future home series.

[Andy]

Its not abt Underated. Just b4 the tour to New Zealand our Fast bowlers were called one one of the best on the basis of form!! Ishant bowled poorly!! Now agn if among Zaheer or Ishant bowls poorly for sumtime this attack will never get the ratings!! Our bowlers need to be consistent!!

[DomainK]

Actually, I am growing sick of the number of times people (including many Indians) put a question mark on India's ability to take 20 wickets in a test match before almost every test series. Does not matter how many impossible looking test matches we win against some of the best in the world. underestimating Indian bowlers has become a fashion.

[saneindian]

Not just this series, our pacers have been doing well at home for sometime now. Zaheer was the MoS against Eng and Ishant MoS against Aussies.

[Dhondy]

DomainK, do you remember how Zaheer & Ishant reverse swung Australia out for a 2-0 margin the last time around? On the same pitches, Johnson, Siddle & co could hardly get a breath of movement. Zaheer again, was the leader of the pack, with Sreesanth and RP Singh, that clinched our first series win in England since 1974, bowling like men possessed. I hardly need point out Australia's fate against the same side on the last two occasions in their backyard.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Lord]

Agreed it is underrated.but the difference in our pace attack with n without Zaheer is huge

[DomainK]

DomainK, do you remember how Zaheer & Ishant reverse swung Australia out for a 2-0 margin the last time around? On the same pitches, Johnson, Siddle & co could hardly get a breath of movement. Zaheer again, was the leader of the pack, with Sreesanth and RP Singh, that clinched our first series win in England since 1974, bowling like men possessed. I hardly need point out Australia's fate against the same side on the last two occasions in their backyard.

How can anyone forget that? That was perhaps one of the best pace bowling displays in recent times. The Australain bowlers looked in awe as ZAK and co achieved what they could not even dream of. Bowling like that on the Indian pitches is almost unbelievable. Before that ZAK was brilliant in England and all the English could do was to throw jelly beans at him. Our pace bowling has evolved and we have a range of options. Time and again our pace bowling has been underestimated and written off, time and again we have proved the world wrong. Majority of the credit goes to ZAK.

[Dhondy]

Majority of the credit goes to ZAK.

Some credit, DomainK, not all. Remember Sreesanth at the Wanderers, Pathan & RP Singh at Perth, Sreesanth again here at Kanpur, Ishant in the lone Test victory in SL? Team effort. That's where we differ from the Pakistanis. They have arguably the more talented bowlers, but don't have the results to show for it. The reason of course is that Pakistan really are a rag tag outfit where massive individual egos, factionalism & internecine loathing annihilate any concept of the "team". OTOH, when a player pulls on an Indian shirt, he gives all for the team cause because he has the exemplars of senior players like Tendulkar and Dravid who would sweat blood for the side. That's why all these puerile arguments put forward by our padisi posters that they have the better fast bowlers, is nothing but fluff. If the team doesn't win, it's all pretty immaterial.

[Chandan]

Fast bowling on Indian pitches is a different artform .... requires a precise concotion of patience and ability to figure out the right length to bowl .... very few have mastered that art and hence the general scorn heaped on fast bowlers + pitches.

BossBhai!!!!! So India drew you to ICF again! I think they've done a great job!! Dhondy, We just need to rotate our seamers through the JAMODIs and JAMTTs. The way we ground Ishant to dust in these useless formats will never let us have a quality seamer for long. Now since Ishant is out of favour selectors have fixed their sight on Sree to lead him to the same fate. We lost Mishra because he was carried everywhere on bench and didn't get any match practice for a year. If this is the way we'll treat our bowlers, we'll never have consistent ones for test.

[DomainK]

Some credit, DomainK, not all. Remember Sreesanth at the Wanderers, Pathan & RP Singh at Perth, Sreesanth again here at Kanpur, Ishant in the lone Test victory in SL? Team effort. That's where we differ from the Pakistanis. They have arguably the more talented bowlers, but don't have the results to show for it. The reason of course is that Pakistan really are a rag tag outfit where massive individual egos, factionalism & internecine loathing annihilate any concept of the "team". OTOH, when a player pulls on an Indian shirt, he gives all for the team cause because he has the exemplars of senior players like Tendulkar and Dravid who would sweat blood for the side. That's why all these puerile arguments put forward by our padisi posters that they have the better fast bowlers, is nothing but fluff. If the team doesn't win, it's all pretty immaterial.

I agree. It's performance and results that matter. Fans can call anyone great, what matters is what the 'greats' do when they are on a cricket field.

[flamy]

Actually' date=' I am growing sick of the number of times people (including many Indians) put a question mark on India's ability to take 20 wickets in a test match before almost every test series. Does not matter how many impossible looking test matches we win against some of the best in the world. underestimating Indian bowlers has become a fashion.[/quote'] which is why God invented the finger :finger:

[Dhondy]

BossBhai!!!!! So India drew you to ICF again! I think they've done a great job!! Dhondy, We just need to rotate our seamers through the JAMODIs and JAMTTs. The way we ground Ishant to dust in these useless formats will never let us have a quality seamer for long. Now since Ishant is out of favour selectors have fixed their sight on Sree to lead him to the same fate. If this is the way we'll treat our bowlers, we'll never have consistent ones for test.

Those were exactly my thoughts when I saw the limited overs side, Chandan. It goes like this: we have flogged one promising fast bowler to death, now let's do the other. The players must take some responsibility too for participating in chaddi versions like the IPL, but when there is much money on offer so early in their life, can you blame them?

[graphic23]

Dhondy, I've noticed though that a reason for all these doubting Thomases is because the averages at the end of each series don't reflect the hardwork put in our pacers. For example, Zaheer averages 41 for this series, and even after counting for his initial wayward bowling, I think it doesn't truly reflect the effect he's had on the series win. And Ojha averages 28 while Sreesanth, who's been excellent averages 30. Only statisticians who have not watched the game might underrate these bowlers but the real value goes beyond just numbers. (Of course, my argument is largely qualitative, and I haven't had a good luck at the numbers to back myself up here - but given this series, and the one vs. England, where Zaheer was excellent last year, and Ishant vs. Australia, I think my argument must hold some weight).

[Dhondy]

Dhondy, I've noticed though that a reason for all these doubting Thomases is because the averages at the end of each series don't reflect the hardwork put in our pacers. For example, Zaheer averages 41 for this series, and even after counting for his initial wayward bowling, I think it doesn't truly reflect the effect he's had on the series win. And Ojha averages 28 while Sreesanth, who's been excellent averages 30. Only statisticians who have not watched the game might underrate these bowlers but the real value goes beyond just numbers. (Of course, my argument is largely qualitative, and I haven't had a good luck at the numbers to back myself up here - but given this series, and the one vs. England, where Zaheer was excellent last year, and Ishant vs. Australia, I think my argument must hold some weight).

Simple, Graphic. Just look at the fast bowling stats of the opposition. They are diabolical, needless to say, and would lend perspective to such arguments.

[DomainK]

Dhondy, I've noticed though that a reason for all these doubting Thomases is because the averages at the end of each series don't reflect the hardwork put in our pacers. For example, Zaheer averages 41 for this series, and even after counting for his initial wayward bowling, I think it doesn't truly reflect the effect he's had on the series win. And Ojha averages 28 while Sreesanth, who's been excellent averages 30. Only statisticians who have not watched the game might underrate these bowlers but the real value goes beyond just numbers. (Of course, my argument is largely qualitative, and I haven't had a good luck at the numbers to back myself up here - but given this series, and the one vs. England, where Zaheer was excellent last year, and Ishant vs. Australia, I think my argument must hold some weight).

Yes, the real value goes way beyond what the numbers show. The result of the combined efforts is the series victory. Yet again, our bowlers got together to win it for India. Figures can go to hell.

[flamy]

As someone pointed out, the potency of our pace attack dwindles in the absence of Zaheer. It used to be Srinath, and Zak took the mantle. We need a new spearhead, right about now. I had high hopes for Pathan. Whatever happened to RP Singh, tho?

[Chandan]

Those were exactly my thoughts when I saw the limited overs side, Chandan. It goes like this: we have flogged one promising fast bowler to death, now let's do the other. The players must take some responsibility too for participating in chaddi versions like the IPL, but when there is much money on offer so early in their life, can you blame them?

I think those one dayers and endless travellings through these ODIs are more harmful. Why can't a player take his name back from a particular series if he is excessively tired, like Sachin does so many times and Dhoni also did last year? A player should look after himself if the selectors are not willing to do so.

[flamy]

^ But, even other bowlers are playing lots of ODIs and not doing a total U-turn in form like ours. Johnson, who I think is Aus's best bowler is a regular in all three formats.

[Dhondy]

As I suspected. Zaheer actually averaged 36.5, Sreesanth 30.0, while Waladegera averaged 66 & Kulasekara 105.