Enough reasons to send Ishant back to domestic?

[msb1991]

There could be two interpretations of this. First, that the Indian side is like a monolith. Established players are difficult, almost impossible to get rid of. The second, and the more likely explanation is that the pool of talent coming through domestic cricket is so mediocre, that very few new entrants have what it takes to knock the established players off their perch.

Or perhaps it indicates that the selectors are both fickle and unwilling to pick the domestically proven talent.

[Chandan]

There could be two interpretations of this. First, that the Indian side is like a monolith. Established players are difficult, almost impossible to get rid of. The second, and the more likely explanation is that the pool of talent coming through domestic cricket is so mediocre, that very few new entrants have what it takes to knock the established players off their perch.

I'll say both Dhondy. Indian players who had established themselves were pretty young coming into this decade. The entitre middle order was 25 or even less years old. We always had the space for two openers and Sehwag and Gambhir grabbed it. But Jaffer played for some time as well. He nearly scored 2000 runs. And we are yet to see how far the new Australian MO batsmen go. After Mongia, we could not have a settled keeper--Parthiv played for 2-3 years before getting dropped. Karthik played few tests as well but Dhony eventually made it his own. Just two months before your cut off date, Zaheer had debuted. And I'll put his name in the list as well, as he has gone on to take 240+ wickets. Now Kumble's spot was vacated at the end of 2008. You like it or not, but Mishra will play as the second spinner. We have to see how successful he becomes. Why did you leave out Yuvraj? He has played 30+ tests and these days is a regular for tests. Tell me which Australian or SA player has been as successful as Sehwag? New Indian caps relevence would start after 2 years when one by one our MO stalwarts would retire and Zaheer would near the end of his career. Then we'll certainly see more caps for India than any of these two countries.

[Dhondy]

Chandan, I am not trying to debate you. I was simply making a point. I didn't fudge any criteria. Let me take you up on the two points you made. First that Zaheer, and in fact Harbhajan, who you missed, both made their debuts before the cut off date. By definition therefore, these are decade long players, who should be in the team due to exceptional quality. Looking at the other decade survivors in the three teams- Sachin, Dravid, Laxman from India, Kallis and Boucher from SA and Ponting from Australia, do you think their continuance in the team is a function of their exceptional quality, or the lack of suitable replacements? Yuvraj isn't in the current side, which was one of my requirements. However, look how he has secured his place for the next tour without hitting a ball. His replacements are so dire that he gets to make a comeback by default, despite having a rather mediocre record himself.

[Chandan]

Yuvraj isn't in the current side, which was one of my requirements. However, look how he has secured his place for the next tour without hitting a ball. His replacements are so dire that he gets to make a comeback by default, despite having a rather mediocre record himself.

Yes. Get your point there. It is also due to the reluctance of selectors to try and change a settled squad. Yuvraj is not anything but average in tests at the moment, but perhaps selectors expect something big from him. If they do, they'll only be disappointed IMO. There are a few MO batsmen to be tried. Badrinath has failed while Vijay has just passed. We have two three others waiting in the wings. In bowling, Zaheer's partner is yet to secure a place. Harbhajan will remain our number one spinner and I think he is better than most, despite having these defensive tactics most of the time and attitude problems as well. But his partner is yet to cement his place. Mishra has played only 4 series. Let us give him some time. But I get your point. There is no next Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Kumble or even Ganguly on horizon.

[Steyn]

I see India is doing a Australia here. There will be 3 MO batsmen will retire in 2012-13. Sehwag will get older and will lose venom expectedly as most of the aggressive batsmen do. Zaheer wl be finished at that time. So India will require atleast 5 new players ready by that time. Probably Kohli will fill Dravid, Vijay wl Laxmam but there will be on replacement for Sachin and Sehwag. Zaheer also replacable. And another dilemma is that Kumble's position is yet to be filled. So future looks tough for India. SouthAfrica in that sense are in good position. They will lose only Kallis and Boucher in that time. Kallis seems not replacable but De villiers has ability to take Kallis batting spot. Australia will remain what they are at this moment even though Hussey and Ponting wl depart. They has great structure to fill the quotas. For India a solution is here. They should stick with Vijay instead of Yuvraj and should give Kohli some chance whenever a batsmen will be injured. It will help them to groom well with the positive mentality by attached with the greats.

[Dhondy]

Or perhaps it indicates that the selectors are both fickle and unwilling to pick the domestically proven talent.

Sigh. This, after I pointed out that India has blooded 30 players to 29 each by Aus & SA over the same period.

[msb1991]

Sigh. This, after I pointed out that India has blooded 30 players to 29 each by Aus & SA over the same period.

Fickle in terms of keen to drop. Unwilling to pick domestically proven talent but keen on picking unproven players. The selectors can be the above and still pick the same amount as teams who are willing to stick with good players and who make shrewd selections in the first place.

[Fontaine]

I hope the selectors stick with Ishant. He's a work in progress and it's going to take time. As long as he can continue to bowl some spells like the one yesterday then he deserves a place in the side. He does need to get that inswinger back though.

[Chandan]

Fickle in terms of keen to drop. Unwilling to pick domestically proven talent but keen on picking unproven players. The selectors can be the above and still pick the same amount as teams who are willing to stick with good players and who make shrewd selections in the first place.

Not true, msb. Wasim Jaffer, a proven domestic player was given three years to cement his place. He failed and Gambhir grabbed the spot. We had many a musical chair played between keepers in the earlier part of the decade. No one could survive, be it Dighe or Dasgupta or whoever. Finally Parthiv came with a bit of promise but failed to cement his place despite given 2 years at international level. and then Dhoni sealed it. We are yet to find a good second spinner and two more good and consistent seamer. Sree, RP Singh--all were given chance on the back of good domestic performance but either their fitness or something else came in their way of standing the test of time.

[msb1991]

Not true, msb. Wasim Jaffer, a proven domestic player was given three years to cement his place. He failed and Gambhit grabbed the spot. We had many a musical chair played between keepers in the earlier part of the decade. No one could survive, be it Dighe or Dasgupta or whoever. finally parthiv came with a bit of promise but failed to cement his place despite given 2 years at international level. and finally Dhoni sealed it. We are yet to find a good second spinner and two more good and consistent seamer. Sree, RP Singh--all were given chance on the back of good domestic performance but either their fitness or something else came in their way of standing the test of time.

Jaffer was well treated and perhaps the leeway that was given to him could have been given to other players (Dinesh Karthik, the opener, IKP, Powar, Chawla, VRV), if they had similar records behind them. RP Singh had just the two good seasons, which were horribly spread out and interrupted by selections for the full team. Who knows what sort of bowler he could be, if he was given a chance to flourish in FC cricket? These days, he averages over 30 in FC cricket in recent years. as the above link shows. Sreesanth never proved himself in FC cricket, playing in the Plate League, he only took over 30 wickets once, in his debut season. Whether it was injuries or something else, he never seemed to get through many overs either, never proved his fitness as a long term Test option or consistency. Same with IKP, picked before he could forge a strong First Class record. One good year in 2001/2 an average one in 2002/3 and then before you know it, straight off to play the Aussies. It is no wonder he could only destroy Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in his first Test stint. He rarely bowled well against top Test opposition, was actually a minnow basher in his first Test stint who merely looked impressive. It is only recently that he has had two good First Class seasons and so looks a good Test option. Even Zaheer Khan flattered to decieve until he got a nice few long seasons in, in 2004/5, 2005/6 and 2006.

[Karan114]

One wicket for 200 so far in this series for Ishant now...with Zak injured we have been reduced to a two man attack but luckily Mishra and Bhajji have taken a couple of wickets in the first session

[Three'sACrowd]

He's become a parody of himself.

[Karan114]

Granted Raina dropped a catch off him, but otherwise this guy has bowled complete rubbish today.

[Deleted_User_1]

Ishant needs to be dropped and needs to go back to domestic circuit. He is plain rubbish.

[TheWall]

may be Ishant has to go to MRF pace foundation ...

[fineleg]

ZK injury has totally exposed 'I-can't Sharma' in second inn at Kolkata What crap bowling by Pissant Sharma!!! Absolute rubbish. No support from him can lead to loss of our #1 ranking!

[gaurav92]

Ishant should be given a break from the Indian side, make him earn his place rather than giving him the gift of opportunity, even though he is looking out of colour

[mhr123]

may be Ishant has to go to MRF pace foundation ...

that wud be better and stay away from Prasad for a while... earlier he was "Right Arm Fast now he is Right Arm Prasad"

[Desi Cartman]

that wud be better and stay away from Prasad for a while... earlier he was "Right Arm Fast now he is Right Arm Prasad"

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: In all honesty he doesnt deserve to play for the Indian team at the moment

[jusarrived]

too many Ishant haters here . I just saw couple of overs of his bowling , was consistently hitting ~137mph , top speed of 139....was bowling well . make flat wickets & you guys expect our pace bowlers to run through good batting lineups ..amazing !