Bradman is the greatest, Sachin comes only second: Waugh, Benaud

[vvvslaxman]

Yep and we appreciate your considerable help in enhancing the quality of the discussion with your "well-thought-out"' date=' "insightful" and, hold your breath, "enlightening" comments! Please do keep it up for your comments make us laugh out loud and laughter cannot be bad for the health.[/quote'] Same to you :winky:

[TSAG_RGB]

Well there are no such teams anmore ... the closest are BD and Zim and he avges 97 against the minnows.

Bradman averaged much more than 100 against the minnows. 178 against us , 201 against SA , 74 against WI. That amounts to 140 against all the minnows. Still much better than 97 Sachin averages against BD and Zim.

Heck he avged 76 against Eng till 2002 and 80 against SL in the 90s.

Sachin averaged 76 against Eng till 2002. Thats just cherry picking. In total he averages 61 over 24 matches. Bradman 90 over 37 matches. And the English bowling of 30s was definitely better than that of 90s. Also after WWI , the best batsmen of every generation - with the exception of Bradman - have all averaged in the range of 55 to 60. Almost every one - except a few like Merchant, Headley, Ponsford- have averaged in the same range in FC as well . Why don't these batsmen average much more in FC given that quality of bowling and fielding is not as good as that in tests ? Why has only Bradman being able to average so much more in both Tests and FC?

[Guest DeveGowda]

I i dont have any stats to show who is better..but one Series shows why many considers Bradman greatest... Bodyline sereis.. This strategy Solely developed for containing Bradman..i dont know is there any other startegy developed solely for containing a batsman...!!!

[teacup]

i dont have any stats to show who is better..but one Series shows why many considers Bradman greatest... Bodyline sereis.. This strategy Solely developed for containing Bradman..i dont know is there any other startegy developed solely for containing a batsman...!!!

There is one other tactic that was conceived and implemented to contain a particular opposition batsman and it involved bowling well outside the leg-stump to contain and frustrate him using a left-arm orthodox spinner from over the wicket. The bowler was Ashley Giles and the batsman, Tendulkar. While Jardine's theory used fear and intimidation, Hussain's tactic played on the batsman's patience and frustration while combating a negative tactic. Interestingly, both Jardine and Hussain were born in India but played for England.

[Guest DeveGowda]

There is one other tactic that was conceived and implemented to contain a particular opposition batsman and it involved bowling well outside the leg-stump to contain and frustrate him using a left-arm orthodox spinner from over the wicket. The bowler was Ashley Giles and the batsman' date= Tendulkar. While Jardine's theory used fear and intimidation, Hussain's tactic played on the batsman's patience and frustration while combating a negative tactic. Interestingly, both Jardine and Hussain were born in India but played for England.

Sorry i cant understood the logic of spin bowling legside and Bowling fast bowls to your body comparision...:giggle: if u are frustrated u can just depend or take a single and go to non strikers end and play other bowlers.. Alos plz dont suggest these kind of bowlers names and bring Shame to sachin ...Giles is average bowler..if Sachin cant play his bowling then that sachin's fault

[teacup]

Sorry i cant understood the logic of spin bowling legside and Bowling fast bowls to your body comparision...:giggle: if u are frustrated u can just depend or take a single and go to non strikers end and play other bowlers.. Alos plz dont suggest these kind of bowlers names and bring Shame to sachin ...Giles is average bowler..if Sachin cant play his bowling then that sachin's fault

Who said the tactic was successful? The only thing it achieved was to slow down his scoring rate. He averaged 76 in that series. You had wondered if there ever was a strategy to combat one batsman and I pointed out to one that involved Tendulkar.

[Guest DeveGowda]

Who said the tactic was successful? The only thing it achieved was to slow down his scoring rate. He averaged 76 in that series. You had wondered if there ever was a strategy to combat one batsman and I pointed out to one that involved Tendulkar.

Who told that strategy was developed to Contains Sachin only ? And how any Captain can hope to succed with that strategy with an average Bowlers ?

[surajpale]

:haha:

[teacup]

Who told that strategy was developed to Contains Sachin only ? And how any Captain can hope to succed with that strategy with an average Bowlers ?

Were you born yesterday? It is well-known that Hussain used his containment tactic to rein in Sachin and he admitted as much and defended his tactic saying he did not break any rules and a captain with "limited" bowling options needs to have a plan when playing against a batsman like Sachin. Here is the Almanac report that talks of the tactic.

Third Test Wisden home Almanack archive home 2003 home India v England At Bangalore, December 19, 20, 21, 22, 23. Drawn. Toss: England. Dank weather which had more in common with Manchester than Bangalore initially encouraged England to think that they could still pull off a victory to tie the series. But the overcast skies - floodlights were in use throughout - increasingly bore unseasonal rain. As a hard-fought series petered out, the depression clung not just over the Bay of Bengal but also over the England dressing-room. A chief source of that depression was the criticism of their negative bowling tactics against Tendulkar, apparent throughout the series, but here employed more bloody-mindedly than ever. The unedifying spectacle of Flintoff and, in particular, Giles aiming outside Tendulkar's leg stump left both Hussain and Duncan Fletcher unrepentant and, in Hussain's case, resentful that an inexperienced team's attempts to compete in alien conditions had not been given unreserved support. Denis Lindsay, the ICC referee, needed all his man-management skills to prevent a reasonably well-behaved series spinning out of control at the last. Tendulkar is a special talent, and the need to curb him encouraged extreme tactics. First Flintoff conjured up memories of Bodyline by banging the ball in short from round the wicket. Then Giles deliberately landed his slow left-armers a foot outside leg stump, where the wicket-keeper, Foster, stood in readiness. On the third morning, 90 per cent of Giles's balls pitched outside leg, and Tendulkar padded away more than half. But even if Hussain felt he could justify his methods, the umpires had the power to rule these persistent negative deliveries as wides; in the broader interests of the game, they should have done. An ICC cricket committee meeting in March agreed that steps should be taken to ensure as much. It was the buccaneering leg-side blows of his partner and acolyte, Sehwag, that finally tempted Tendulkar into indiscretion, shortly after he passed 1,000 Test runs in the calendar year. When he charged at Giles to be stumped for the first time in his 89-Test career, England were convinced their suffocating tactics had been suc-cessful. But Tendulkar had made 90, and, if he required four and a half hours, then the lost time was to England's disadvantage.

By the way, his "limited" bowling options included Hoggard, Flintoff and Giles, three of the five bowlers who bowled in the famous 2005 Ashes. That his plan, although a negative one and against the spirit of the game, worked to an extent is a testament to how much India was dependent on Sachin's ability to dominate and demoralize the opposing bowlers to win matches at home. A cursory look at the series statistics will show that while SRT averaged 76 the next best average was more than 32 runs below that.

[Guest DeveGowda]

what a report it says...flintoff bowling Bodyline style - body line is not only bowling to Body they kept maximum fielders on one side only....:giggle: If u read report carefully its Written there Buccaneering blows by Sehwag tempted Sachin to come out of the crease and get Stumped...So this report also means Sehwag played this bowling better than Sachin ? at the end Only one guy bowling negetive here ie Gyles and as i told earlier there is no chance of getting OUT or getting harm in those deliveries....Flintoff bowled Short deliveries that will be bowled by everone now a days That tactic not used only against Sachin ,there are other good batsmen in indian team that time

[The Outsider]

The only time tactics remotely similar to Bodyline were used in modern cricket this happened : http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63162.html

[Guest DeveGowda]

i think its mainly because of pitch...and Holding

[teacup]

The only time tactics remotely similar to Bodyline were used in modern cricket this happened : http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63162.html

Irrelevant post. The point of that discussion was, Tendulkar is perhaps the only batsman after Bradman to force an opposing team captain to use tactics that went against the spirit of the game for an entire series.

[Karan114]

Irrelevant post. The point of that discussion was' date=' Tendulkar is perhaps the only batsman after Bradman to force an opposing team captain to use tactics that went against the spirit of the game [b']for an entire series.

This is incorrect. England didn't use those tactics in the first two Tests of that series at Mohali and Ahmedabad (indeed Giles didn't even play at Mohali). They definitely used them at Bangalore, but it wasn't for the entire series.

[Guest DeveGowda]

Irrelevant post. The point of that discussion was' date=' Tendulkar is perhaps the only batsman after Bradman to force an opposing team captain to use tactics that went against the spirit of the game for an entire series.[/quote'] This Legside bowling was done on many occasions...does that mean evey batsman is greatest..:giggle: even dhoni used similer tactics against oz in 2008 home series...

[Guest DeveGowda]

This is incorrect. England didn't use those tactics in the first two Tests of that series at Mohali and Ahmedabad (indeed Giles didn't even play at Mohali). They definitely used them at Bangalore' date=' but it wasn't for the entire series.[/quote'] And no one from england team came out and told they devised this tactics solely for sachin , Unlike Bodyline which was planned much earlier to the series start and devised mainly to control Don....

[zen]

some of my friend use to bowl negative line to me as well when we played in the backyard, does that make me comparable to Sachin? On a serious note, Bodyline was far too lethal esp considering the lack of protective gear in those times. It designed to pick up wkts .... Bowling outside the leg-side is negative tactic, primarily designed to frustrate/restrict the batsmen

[Guest DeveGowda]

This is nothing personal..dont consider i am Sachin's enemy :winky: ..but some times we have to give credit where its due.. many of my colleagues who are die hard sachin worshippers also never compare him with bradman..evry cricket lover have special place for bradman... Even Sachin wont think he will be comparable to bradman and also does if Sachin less greater than bradman what he is going to lose..he is No 1 enteratainer in India. *may be many people in india doesnt even know who is bradman.

[Sachinism]

And no one from england team came out and told they devised this tactics solely for sachin ' date=' Unlike Bodyline which was planned much earlier to the series start and devised mainly to control Don....[/quote'] Just because they didn't say it or it wasn't publicised as much doesn't mean it wasn't for him. It was pretty obvious that tactic was used to counter Sachin

[Guest DeveGowda]

Just because they didn't say it or it wasn't publicised as much doesn't mean it wasn't for him. It was pretty obvious that tactic was used to counter Sachin

how come they think they can use a Average bowler like Giles and Counter Sachin..its really funny.. :cantstop: And Do u never heard or saw this negetive line attack After or before this ? :winky: