Bradman is the greatest, Sachin comes only second: Waugh, Benaud

[Raghav_12]

That is my point. Bradman has not score like 300 in county games and 100 in the regular test matches. He was also same 85 to 115 kind of average in county and 100 in test matches. So it is comparable standard in those days. In these days, if Ramprakash and Hick scored 100+ in county could not even manage average of 50 in test cricket. Am I making sense or not. My point is we do not know for sure, what was the standard of cricket in Bradman's days??

I don't think there is much point in Tendulkar being compared to Bradman unless he creates a significant difference in career averages over contemporaries. Greatness across era's can be compared only by one parameter that how ahead particular person is/was from rest of the pack. Carl Lewis would always be considered a great sprinter, though at best he could manage 9.86 only, while nowadays a lot of them are going below 9.80. Does that mean all of these runners are greater than Carl lewis? No way. Lewis did it when nobody was able to do that. No matter how easy batting conditions were at that time, but other greats from that time could do only half of what Bradman did. So no comparison there. But for second best Sachin is very strong contender.

[CSK Fan]

Carl Lewis would always be considered a great sprinter, though at best he could manage 9.86 only, while nowadays a lot of them are going below 9.80. Does that mean all of these runners are greater than Carl lewis? No way. Lewis did it when nobody was able to do that. No matter how easy batting conditions were at that time, but other greats from that time could do only half of what Bradman did. So no comparison there. But for second best Sachin is very strong contender.

So by your logic since Sachin scored 200 in an ODI once which no one has ever done, shouldnt he be the best batsman in ODIs ever? Same with Lara in tests? Cricket is not racing where numbers are so clearly defined. In the major part of 90s Sachin was clearly ahead of his pack even with batsmen like Lara around. If Sachin had not missed those 5 years to injury, he most likely would have a 65+ average as of now. And maybe, since cricket was mostly limited to a handful of countires around Bradman's time and few considered it as a career, there might not have been enough batting talent to call Bradman's contempories 'great'

[King Tendulkar]

So its all about averges? Lohmann is the greates bowler ever then:giggle:

[SachDan]

So its all about averges? Lohmann is the greates bowler ever then:giggle:

Wasn't that debate done and dusted with Lohmann emerging as the clear winner? :giggle:

[Guest BossBhai]

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[Roshanrocks]

SUperMan Lohmannnn

[dial_100]

Watch the two clips below ... both have very attacking field settings but one has very high quality bowling lineup(2nd clip) and the other just a okish bowling lineup and watch what happens even if it is a fifth day track(1st clip). These were the sort of field settings (and bowling attacks) that DGB played most of his career against. And if these situations are restored today Baasu will rarely get out ... if he does get out it will be due to sheer boredom.

YouTube - Sachin's first innings-4

Bossy. Somehow i want to agree with your thought as well. And in DGB's days, the standard of the cricket was not even as good as you are seeing in the first clip... Now saying that why nobody else scored as much as DGB did is drawn too far. Because there was none. Now a days we have players as good as tendulkar and there performance is comparable to SRT.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[kabira]

Regarding Tendular v/s Bradman and Bradmans avg of 99.... well lets just say, If Tendulkar played against bunch of amateurs, he would avg. same. Infact he did, remember playing him in with university guys in England and avg. over 100 there. Also most important thing for Bradman, every series, they had bunch of warm up games, actually plenty of them, which today's star are deprived of. Today if you have bad form, its not easy to get into form as competitive cricket is non stop. In those days, if you had bad form, you can play those warm up games and sort them out. I am quite postive that lot of today's great ranging from Richards to Dravid would have avg 100 in that era.

[Zero_Unit]

Not sure about Bradman since was never there to watch any of his matches. Sachin's AVG speaks greater then Bradman's. BTW I found this cote funny "The 1999 World Cup winning captain Waugh said India and Australia will start the favourites in the ODI World Cup next year, which will be held in Indian sub-continent." ---> In my opinion, Australia is not going into the WC as a favorite this time. They lost their torch. It's going to be India and SA as Fav for m (maybe SL can be the 3rd wheel in the fav section).

[The Outsider]

Regarding Tendular v/s Bradman and Bradmans avg of 99.... well lets just say, If Tendulkar played against bunch of amateurs, he would avg. same. Infact he did, remember playing him in with university guys in England and avg. over 100 there. Also most important thing for Bradman, every series, they had bunch of warm up games, actually plenty of them, which today's star are deprived of. Today if you have bad form, its not easy to get into form as competitive cricket is non stop. In those days, if you had bad form, you can play those warm up games and sort them out. I am quite postive that lot of today's great ranging from Richards to Dravid would have avg 100 in that era.

So I take it you consider Jadeja to be a better all rounder than Miller, Sami a better bowler than Linwall, and Farhat a better opener than Hobbs? :hysterical:

[Guest BossBhai]

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[zen]

If there were a holy grail for batting, it would probably be a career test avg of 100 in tests. This is such a phenomenal achievement, it would probably be like touching the deepest part of ocean for a diver or setting foot on the moon for an astronaut. When Charles Lindbergh landed in Europe from his flight from the States, he created history. Many consider him amongst the best pilot in the world for doing something which many do so frequently now. Those lucky enough to fly the Concord did it in about 3 hours. That Lindbergh journey is a cause for celebration for many as it opened up new avenues for aviation. No amount of argument is going to show that today's pilots are better than Lindbergh. What Lindbergh achieved is one of the landmarks in aviation history, similarly what Sir Don Bradman achieved through his career batting average of almost 100 is a landmark in cricketing history. Something that is unparalled. In 1990s, when McLaren F1 hit the roads it created a storm. It could hit 60mph from 0 mph in 3 sec. Yes, you say 1-2-3 and it is doing 60 mph. This was phenomenal. It was the fastest production car for a long time. Today, we have Bugatti Veyron as the fastest car but hey, McLaren F1 still turns people on! With all the advancement in technology, Veyron merely beats the F1 by a few fractions of a second to 60mph from 0. F1 is the benchmark which showed where the modern sports car could go. F1 is a cause for celebration just like Bradman is with his magical average of 100. Today, we have Veyron beat the F1 is straight line but Bradman still remains untouched. Once you hit a career average of 100 in tests other things become irrelevant. It's the holy grail for batting period. Achieving that is heroic just like Lindbergh's achievement of his historic flight. Achieving that is as big a breakthrough as the F1's speed. Achieving that is a big landmark, just like the first step man took on the moon!

[The Outsider]

If there were a holy grail for batting, it would probably be a career test avg of 100 in tests. This is such a phenomenal achievement, it would probably be like touching the deepest part of ocean for a diver or setting foot on the moon for an astronaut. When Charles Lindbergh landed in Europe from his flight from the States, he created history. Many consider him amongst the best pilot in the world for doing something which many do so frequently now. Those lucky enough to fly the Concord did it in about 3 hours. That Lindbergh journey is a cause for celebration for many as it opened up new avenues for aviation. No amount of argument is going to show that today's pilots are better than Lindbergh. What Lindbergh achieved is one of the landmarks in aviation history, similarly what Sir Don Bradman achieved through his career batting average of almost 100 is a landmark in cricketing history. Something that is unparalled. In 1990s, when McLaren F1 hit the roads it created a storm. It could hit 60mph from 0 mph in 3 sec. Yes, you say 1-2-3 and it is doing 60 mph. This was phenomenal. It was the fastest production car for a long time. Today, we have Bugatti Veyron as the fastest car but hey, McLaren F1 still turns people on! With all the advancement in technology, Veyron merely beats the F1 by a few fractions of a second to 60mph from 0. F1 is the benchmark which showed where the modern sports car could go. F1 is a cause for celebration just like Bradman is with his magical average of 100. Today, we have Veyron beat the F1 is straight line but Bradman still remains untouched. Once you hit a career average of 100 in tests other things become irrelevant. It's the holy grail for batting period. Achieving that is heroic just like Lindbergh's achievement of his historic flight. Achieving that is as big a breakthrough as the F1's speed. Achieving that is a big landmark, just like the first step man took on the moon!

Brilliant post! What many do is forget the context of the achievements and play silly games like time traveling someone from the past into the modern world. If Newton was put into a Graduate Level Physics class straight from his bed, he would have no clue of what is going on. Does it make anyone taking Graduate level Physics better than Newton as a scientist? Only someone who is a believer in asinine ideas would think so.

[zen]

Brilliant post! What many do is forget the context of the achievements and play silly games like time traveling someone from the past into the modern world. If Newton was put into a Graduate Level Physics class straight from his bed, he would have no clue of what is going on. Does it make anyone taking Graduate level Physics better than Newton as a scientist? Only someone who is a believer in asinine ideas would think so.

Spot on! It also surprises me when people come out with bowlers' stats of Bradman's era to show his avg of 100 would not have been difficult for today's batsmen to achieve. Totally ignoring, what it takes to get to that kind of average! Hundreds of years ago, armies fought with arrows and swords. Today armies fight with highly advanced weapon. But how is the level of courage or the skills required to beat the enemy any different? Earlier a warrior took on the challenges in the environment that he was presented with like what a solider does in today's environment

[Guest BossBhai]

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[vaibhav_delhi]

an observation TEN TENDULKAR threads are going on page 1 of the cricket talk forum. Bradman is the greatest, Sachin comes only second: Waugh, Benaud Is Tendulkar the second best batsman of all time? Sachin Tendulkar : Top 10 innings in Test Cricket Has modern master Tendulkar eclipsed The Don? Now Greg Chappell sings paeans of record-breaking Sachin Tendulkar Imagine the 2-0 win without Sachin! Sanctuary of crease lets Sachin Tendulkar reveal genius Sachin has not performed under pressure: Kapil Can Goddy do it again!!???? The King is back on his throne! SRT No.1! Best Batsman in the World! Well done guys (sarcastically)

[King Tendulkar]

Brilliant post! What many do is forget the context of the achievements and play silly games like time traveling someone from the past into the modern world. If Newton was put into a Graduate Level Physics class straight from his bed, he would have no clue of what is going on. Does it make anyone taking Graduate level Physics better than Newton as a scientist? Only someone who is a believer in asinine ideas would think so.

So you agree Lohmann is the best bowler ever?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[King Tendulkar]

If there were a holy grail for batting, it would probably be a career test avg of 100 in tests. This is such a phenomenal achievement, it would probably be like touching the deepest part of ocean for a diver or setting foot on the moon for an astronaut. When Charles Lindbergh landed in Europe from his flight from the States, he created history. Many consider him amongst the best pilot in the world for doing something which many do so frequently now. Those lucky enough to fly the Concord did it in about 3 hours. That Lindbergh journey is a cause for celebration for many as it opened up new avenues for aviation. No amount of argument is going to show that today's pilots are better than Lindbergh. What Lindbergh achieved is one of the landmarks in aviation history, similarly what Sir Don Bradman achieved through his career batting average of almost 100 is a landmark in cricketing history. Something that is unparalled. In 1990s, when McLaren F1 hit the roads it created a storm. It could hit 60mph from 0 mph in 3 sec. Yes, you say 1-2-3 and it is doing 60 mph. This was phenomenal. It was the fastest production car for a long time. Today, we have Bugatti Veyron as the fastest car but hey, McLaren F1 still turns people on! With all the advancement in technology, Veyron merely beats the F1 by a few fractions of a second to 60mph from 0. F1 is the benchmark which showed where the modern sports car could go. F1 is a cause for celebration just like Bradman is with his magical average of 100. Today, we have Veyron beat the F1 is straight line but Bradman still remains untouched. Once you hit a career average of 100 in tests other things become irrelevant. It's the holy grail for batting period. Achieving that is heroic just like Lindbergh's achievement of his historic flight. Achieving that is as big a breakthrough as the F1's speed. Achieving that is a big landmark, just like the first step man took on the moon!

Lohmanns bowling average is miles better then anyone. Unparalled. He has the holy grail bowling average of 10!!! So you agree Lohmann is best bowler ever?