Main reason for the demise of West Indian cricket : Sluggish Pitches in Caribbean

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More... The pitch is the problem The slow pitches in the Caribbean is high on the list of reasons for the gradual demise of West Indian fast bowling and of batting standards Tony Cozier March 14, 2010 West Indies and Zimbabwe have simply marked time over the past three weeks. After five limited-overs matches, they remain in their same lowly positions on the ICC rankings and have learned little new about themselves. The sequence was just as it was in their last encounter, two years ago in Zimbabwe, when West Indies lost the first match before finding their land legs and taking out the next three. Only days back from a morale-crushing hammering in Australia and in conditions more suited to the bowling strength of the opposition than their own, they have been made to fight harder this time Batting that variously featured the uncertain Andre Fletcher, Dave Bernard and Denesh Ramdin in the top four and unpredictability from six down has again been vulnerable to pressure. Patience and techniques have been tested to the limit by Zimbabwe's host of spinners on turning pitches at Providence and Arnos Vale and often found wanting. It placed added responsibility on Chris Gayle to provide early momentum at the top of the order. More significant than his batting were his forthright comments, especially following the defeat in the first ODI. It revealed his justifiable frustration at culpable players although more than just one might have paid for their indiscretions with their places in the team. Amid the struggles of others, Narsingh Deonarine finally confirmed the quality that was evident since he was a teenager. His handling of the varied Zimbabwean spin and, above all, his level-headedness should have been an embarrassment to most of his team-mates. His impressive 82 in the second innings of the Perth Test in December, when Shivnarine Chanderpaul's injury opened a spot for him, hinted at an overdue maturity. This was further evidence. Sterner tests lie ahead, initially against Dale Steyn, Morne Morkel and the South Africans at Sabina, Warner Park and Kensington in June, but the signs are encouraging. In Perth, and in this series, his solidity mirrored that of his fellow left-hander Brendan Nash whose disappearance since the Tests in Australia (in which he averaged 41) remains an unexplained mystery. And it is substance, more than style that West Indies need at present. Against batting even shakier than their own, and on favourable surfaces, Darren Sammy, Ravi Rampaul, Sulieman Benn, Nikita Miller and, when he returned, Dwayne Bravo confirmed themselves as serviceable bowlers in the abbreviated game. The majority of West Indian batsmen have struggled against Zimbabwe's spinners For the longer term, beyond the World Twenty20 championship to the Test series against South Africa and in Sri Lanka in November, the worry is that Kemar Roach is the only one with the pace to knock good batsmen over. His two 90 mph yorkers that demolished Vusi Sibanda's off stump (and, at Providence, bat) were classics and he wasted little time with tailenders. Yet he needs like support and none has emerged in the continuing absence of Jerome Taylor and Fidel Edwards who remain under medical care with no reliable prognosis of their return. What is more, Roach's left ankle, an essential component in a right-arm bowler's anatomy, needed a rest during the ODI series in Australia in last month. It wasn't an encouraging development. Even with him fully fit and fast, but without Taylor and Edwards, it is hard to imagine the attack going through 20 wickets in a Test on true pitches. The same applies to Zimbabwe, if at the opposite end of the scale. Their new dispensation arrived in the Caribbean with the stated mission that this was the first step towards their return to Test cricket. Given the conditions they encountered, they understandably opted to stack their hand with their strongest suit, spin. Ray Price, their experienced left-armer, and captain Prosper Utseya, have excellent ODI records, Graeme Cremer showed himself to be a legspinner of genuine quality. The other leggie, Timycen Muruma, also impressed. But it is unlikely that such a combination would work its way twice through Test opposition, especially given the frailty of its inexperienced batting. It would have been more useful for them to have encountered true, hard pitches with a bias to batting, as they should be for one-day cricket, so that they could test their all-round strength. The problem is that such conditions are rare anywhere in their Caribbean. There were no clearer examples than those at the Queen's Park Oval, Providence and Arnos Vale in this series. They turned sharply from first ball to last, that at Arnos Vale for the fourth ODI on Friday compounded by encouraging movement off the same. Last year, the Bangladeshis were flabbergasted, but delighted, to find surfaces for their Tests at Arnos Vale and in Grenada that might have been custom made in Dhaka for the spin-based attack and pace-shy batsmen. John Dyson was derisive about the standard of the pitches, match and practice, following his dismissal as coach last year. Steve Waugh complained similarly after Australia's 2004 series in the Caribbean. So have several others, local and foreign. Gayle picked up the theme after the first match at Providence, if giving a slightly different twist. He wanted the players to be "more involved" in determining venues so they wouldn't hand the advantage to the opposition, as was the case with Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. Perhaps they would go for Sabina Park and Kensington but not many others offer what Gayle is looking for. Whatever the causes, he noted that 'our cricket continues deteriorating'. It is a shift that is high on the list of reasons for the gradual demise of West Indian fast bowling and of batting standards. The evidence is clear in the utter dominance of ordinary spin bowlers in the regional first-class tournament and the technical deficiencies of batsmen. It was no coincidence that Barbados, Guyana, Jamaican and, later, Antigua once produced such an abundance of outstanding batsmen or that Barbados churned out fast bowlers by the score and Trinidad spinners. They were all reared on pitches, at club and first-class level, that allowed them to confidently express their class. Now aspiring fast bowlers are discouraged by sluggish, poorly prepared conditions in which spinners rejoice. Batsmen approach their innings with deep suspicions of what they will find in the middle. It is a problem that has needed urgent attention for too long. The solution may not be easy but the ICC has, in Andy Atkinson, a resident expert in these matters. He has made frequent visits to Guyana, St. Lucia and Barbados over the past year to oversee pitch preparation for the World Twenty20 championship. Perhaps he can be seconded to the West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) for a long period to see if he can make a difference.

[thevortex]

Certainly one of the reasons. By no means the main one, in my opinion. Their cricketers and their attitudes are surely the main reason for the current state.

[Chandan]

So Bala, why don't you write here what the reasons are for WI decline in cricket from such lofty heights? Many youngsters who are not aware, might learn something, if we have a healthy debate on this among the grown up members of the forum.

[Don Sharma]

Windies cricketers and the people in general are all easy going and laid back characters. It's so wrong to criticize the players alone when that "attitude" is in their blood. But what saw them through during their glory days was the ridiculous talent they were blessed with. Unfortunately, that talent has deteriorated and diminished since the mid 90s. There is still some talent coming out of the Caribbean but I don't think they have enough to reach the top in the foreseeable future. A part of the blame lies with the WICB too who did nothing to curtail the downward slide and kept hoping (sometimes praying) for a Viv or a Marshall to be born and revive their fortunes all of a sudden. Restructuring their infrastructure is their only way forward and I hope they realize it sooner than later. * I still believe they have what it takes to be a mid-table team

[fineleg]

Windies cricketers and the people in general are all easy going and laid back characters. It's so wrong to criticize the players alone when that "attitude" is in their blood. But what saw them through during their glory days was the ridiculous talent they were blessed with. Unfortunately, that talent has deteriorated and diminished since the mid 90s. There is still some talent coming out of the Caribbean but I don't think they have enough to reach the top in the foreseeable future. A part of the blame lies with the WICB too who did nothing to curtail the downward slide and kept hoping (sometimes praying) for a Viv or a Marshall to be born and revive their fortunes all of a sudden. Restructuring their infrastructure is their only way forward and I hope they realize it sooner than later. * I still believe they have what it takes to be a mid-table team

I agree with everything (except the one I struck-through , they need to change in today's world...this "blood" thingy won't cut it) But yeah, I've been privileged to have seen Lloyd, Richards, Marshall, Andy Roberts et al Live in a stadium during match (though I was really young then, my Dad n Aunt were very much WI fans then) I gotta say very few were "industrious" - maybe a Lloyd, or destructive but solid Dez Haynes were an exception. Most were just INCREDIBLY talented which they thived on then.

[Laaloo]

No ****. When you have bowlers like taylor, edwards, bravo, etc, you're preparing low and dead pitches. Real smart WICB

[Ram]

I agree with everything (except the one I struck-through , they need to change in today's world...this "blood" thingy won't cut it) But yeah, I've been privileged to have seen Lloyd, Richards, Marshall, Andy Roberts et al Live in a stadium during match (though I was really young then, my Dad n Aunt were very much WI fans then) I gotta say very few were "industrious" - maybe a Lloyd, or destructive but solid Dez Haynes were an exception. Most were just INCREDIBLY talented which they thived on then.

Was it this match? - http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63355.html :winky:

[fineleg]

^ Yes! Morris it was 1983-84 WI-Ind at Chepauk chennai I vaguely remember SunnyG taking a very sharp single with Kirmani backing up nicely to give Sunny the 200. It was tense since some WI fielder took a shy at the stumps, but SG brought up his 200 and we all clapped! 236 n.o eventually. If I remember right the 200 was from A.Roberts' bowling and he dabbed it onside - but I maybe wrong, can someone confirm? holding/roberts slowed down pace in 83-84, but marshall and them were still exciting to watch. I missed Big Bird Garner, and had to make do with Winston Davis :wall: maybe u were at chepauk or just born then morris :P

[thevortex]

So Bala' date=' why don't you write here what the reasons are for WI decline in cricket from such lofty heights? Many youngsters who are not aware, might learn something, if we have a healthy debate on this among the grown up members of the forum.[/quote'] Hmm...yesterday something struck me and I wanted to share that. West Indies cricket, about 7 to 8 years back, was not in such a dissimilar position as to what India was at the same time - believe it or not. Let me explain. They had a world beating genius of a batsman who they depended heavily on to put runs on the board and so did we. They had a Lara for our Tendulkar. They had two very good supporting batsmen who were good fighters and strived to be the best they could be. They had Sarwan and Chanderpaul for our Dravid and Ganguly. They had a batsman who had the potential to take the world on by storm through unorthodox batsmanship. Who could blow down attacks rather than meticulously take them apart. They had Chris Gayle for our Virender Sehwag. Somewhat more recently they did find exciting pace talent in Fidel Edwards and Jerome Taylor. Over and above everything West Indies too is a disjointed set of states and territories joined together to form a national team. This resulted in lots of politics and tension within the team. Just the same as India here too. However where they differed was that they did not have the youth coming in who could help smooth over the humongous gaps left by the exit of the seniors and the geniuses. India is also helped by the continuing presence of geniuses and steadying hands such as Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman. Not to mention that Sehwag has continued to take the world on by storm with huge levels of consistency. Incidentally it would be very educational if we can plot a curve of ascendancy of Indian cricket from the period Sehwag stepped into the national squad. I will not be surprised if there is some relation there. So, while Ian Chappell is right in saying that India does not have too many world beaters of bowlers, we play a different brand of cricket. We have batting match winners when it comes to Test matches. West Indies right now does not. Nor do they have the bowlers. And continuous failure has led to despondency rather than disappointment. So much so that expectations have dropped to levels which demanded sighs of relief when they win against Zimbabwe. To get out of this vicious cycle they need a new leader. A Ganguly or a M S Dhoni who is far from the beaten track and can give the team and its supporters something to hope for. And of course a captain is only as good or as bad as his team. They need Sarwan and Chanderpaul to turn over a new leaf in terms consistency. And for Gayle to provide the ballast at the top. In 2 to 3 years time it would be very interesting to chart out the progress of the Indian team perhaps at a time when there is no Tendulkar, no Dravid and no Laxman.

[cowboysfan]

my worry is they will not be able to bring up the pitches to better standard before world cup and the t20 matches will see some really bad matches.the apathy by wicb towards pitches is just unacceptable.

[Sir john]

death for batsman.

[Chandan]

Hmm...yesterday something struck me and I wanted to share that. West Indies cricket, about 7 to 8 years back, was not in such a dissimilar position as to what India was at the same time - believe it or not. Let me explain. They had a world beating genius of a batsman who they depended heavily on to put runs on the board and so did we. They had a Lara for our Tendulkar. They had two very good supporting batsmen who were good fighters and strived to be the best they could be. They had Sarwan and Chanderpaul for our Dravid and Ganguly. They had a batsman who had the potential to take the world on by storm through unorthodox batsmanship. Who could blow down attacks rather than meticulously take them apart. They had Chris Gayle for our Virender Sehwag. Somewhat more recently they did find exciting pace talent in Fidel Edwards and Jerome Taylor. Over and above everything West Indies too is a disjointed set of states and territories joined together to form a national team. This resulted in lots of politics and tension within the team. Just the same as India here too. However where they differed was that they did not have the youth coming in who could help smooth over the humongous gaps left by the exit of the seniors and the geniuses. India is also helped by the continuing presence of geniuses and steadying hands such as Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman. Not to mention that Sehwag has continued to take the world on by storm with huge levels of consistency. Incidentally it would be very educational if we can plot a curve of ascendancy of Indian cricket from the period Sehwag stepped into the national squad. I will not be surprised if there is some relation there. So, while Ian Chappell is right in saying that India does not have too many world beaters of bowlers, we play a different brand of cricket. We have batting match winners when it comes to Test matches. West Indies right now does not. Nor do they have the bowlers. And continuous failure has led to despondency rather than disappointment. So much so that expectations have dropped to levels which demanded sighs of relief when they win against Zimbabwe. To get out of this vicious cycle they need a new leader. A Ganguly or a M S Dhoni who is far from the beaten track and can give the team and its supporters something to hope for. And of course a captain is only as good or as bad as his team. They need Sarwan and Chanderpaul to turn over a new leaf in terms consistency. And for Gayle to provide the ballast at the top. In 2 to 3 years time it would be very interesting to chart out the progress of the Indian team perhaps at a time when there is no Tendulkar, no Dravid and no Laxman.

Poles apart-- Indian cricket from WI cricket. Reason? The fans. Fans and that too, in huuuuge number, secure a national player as he earns enough money through lots of endorsements and hence there is not much of an insecurity. But go below that, players are surviving on match fees per day, huge politics in selection even at age level, lack of facility, infrastructure and above all lack of interest from the board. The way cricket board is ignoring domestic cricket, the breeding place for cricketers, even in India is alarming. Just few days back I read an article in Hindustan Times about how a bright young cricketer committed suicide in India. WI has other options. There budding cricketers can forget cricket and engage in other sports but in India, the money and glitz doesn't even let them do that.

[thevortex]

Poles apart-- Indian cricket from WI cricket. Reason? The fans. Fans and that too, in huuuuge number, secure a national player as he earns enough money through lots of endorsements and hence there is not much of an insecurity. But go below that, players are surviving on match fees per day, huge politics in selection even at age level, lack of facility, infrastructure and above all lack of interest from the board. The way cricket board is ignoring domestic cricket, the breeding place for cricketers, even in India is alarming. Just few days back I read an article in Hindustan Times about how a bright young cricketer committed suicide in India. WI has other options. There budding cricketers can forget cricket and engage in other sports but in India, the money and glitz doesn't even let them do that.

Also dont you see an eerie resemblance between personnel here and there. I am not saying Sarwan is as good as Dravid or Chanderpaul is as good as Ganguly. There is no doubting a parallel of sorts, dont you think? Still, are you not curious about how Indian cricket is going to look sans Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman? Maybe even without Sehwag? And there is a case to be built for India's ascendancy coinciding with Sehwag's entry and dominance. About cricket suicides, we were discussing elsewhere a whole sluice of cricket suicides. Let me see if I can find the link.

[Chandan]

Also dont you see an eerie resemblance between personnel here and there. I am not saying Sarwan is as good as Dravid or Chanderpaul is as good as Ganguly. There is no doubting a parallel of sorts' date=' dont you think?[/quote'] Our batsmen are far ahead, Bala because of their consistency which none of the WI batsmen could boast of, not even Lara.

Still, are you not curious about how Indian cricket is going to look sans Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman? Maybe even without Sehwag?

Not at all curious, because I know for sure that India is going to struggle terribly, especially as the selectors don't seem to have any plan or vision to prepare for the replacements.

And there is a case to be built for India's ascendancy coinciding with Sehwag's entry and dominance.

In that case also, can't someone draw a resemblance between Gayle and Sehwag, which will be as hollow as earlier claims of resemblance

About cricket suicides, we were discussing elsewhere a whole sluice of cricket suicides. Let me see if I can find the link.

Did you read the story I linked in my earlier thread? It was quite touching. These days I don't know why but I'm getting more and pessimistic for test cricket's future. How I wish every country emulates Australia in its domestic structure and builds as good infrastructure!

[thevortex]

About the difference in performance between Gayle and Sehwag that is one of the biggest differences between West Indies and India - apart from, of course, the reassuring presence of legends such as Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman. Yes, I read that story and it was quite touching indeed. One of the reasons I keep accusing Dhoni and the selectors of not having any composite vision is this insistence on pushing Raina down the order and having Dhoni himself come up in ODIs. The lad must also learn to build innings. Otherwise we might lose out on a potential left handed Test batsman!