Rana Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Shoaib Akhtar will still bowl faster than that even when he is 70 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Mitch Johnson' date=' Siddle, Lee all bowled at 150k consistently in the tour before last tour to India. They were hammered like anything. As i already said. seam movement is the biggest enemy even ahead of bouncers. In Tests sure we struggle against bouncers. But we don't get out to bouncers much. Australia has experience against genuine quicks. But they have had their share of issues against genuine quicks. NZ had Shane bond. Yet they were consistently routed by teams that had genuine quicks.[/quote'] but you do not get seam movement on Indian pitches. Zak and Ishant were effective because of reverse swing and also you are talking about Indian batting arguably the strongest batting line up on paper. In these conditions, they can play any attack. The greatest attack of Australia in 2001 of Mcgrath, Warne, Gillespie, etc was thrashed by Indian batsmen. You can probably get swing in Indian fro 4-5 overs with the new ball and not seam movement, and remember that was no way an easy series for India. They just had a let off in Bangalore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 india never had issues with genuine quick bowling? comon man yes we are wc champs but dont get too carried away india has always had problems with genuine quicks whether producing them or facing them . although it happened a long time ago but india is the only nation to ever forfeit a test match out of fearof opposition fast bowling againt wi in 70s under bedi even right till 2002 ind test match away record was pathetic because opposition quick bowlers. and donnot conviniently separate swing and line nd lenght from quick bowlers by saying that the batters struggled against the seam/swing and not the pace. We are in 2011. We still don't have pace bowlers. We are better against pace. I am talking about the myth that "having genuine quicks in your side would help your batsmen play better against the quicks." We automatically assume if someone bowls quick he is going to be a good bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rana Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 of course he will ' date='with every passing year after retirement shoaib "the phaaaaaaasssssssssst"akhter will get quicker and quicker till he hits the speed of light[/quote'] Tendulkar gets better and better each decade, so why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 in ur post you talked about ind batters competence against quicks that is also as big a myth as ind phast bowling I can quote instances pretty much all teams in the world struggling against pacers on a hostile pitch. So you cannot say Indians are worse than other country men against genuine quicks. Aren't Aussies supposed to be great against pace since they have had great fast bowlers? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HwDRQuo77I]YouTube - Akhtar 5-25 v Australia - Melbourne - 2002 - Super Challenge[/ame] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 in ur post you talked about ind batters competence against quicks that is also as big a myth as ind phast bowling Tell me.. how many times India was run through by sheer pace without prodigious movement. If you give few examples i can give you lot of examples where we thrashed them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 i can show videos of ind batters getting out to spin so will that prove ind batters struggle against spin? ind batters have struggled more than aussies against pace, ind batters better at handling spin and aus batters handle pace better. Give me examples of genuine quicks running through Indians. Steyn beat Indians mostly with great outswing/inswing mix more than the raw pace. On few occasions India was rolled over by raw pace due to excessive movement like in Kingsmead in 1996 where we were shout out for 100 & 66. Only on certain pitches genuine qucks are going to be effective against India which is true for any team. If India is weak against genuine quicks they should have done against us on all pitches. South Africa was bowled out for 130 plus last 3 tests in a row at Kingsmead. Aren't they supposed to be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 if ind batters were indeed so good at facing fast bowlers than why do opp teams pack their side with pacers when playing against ind? We are no.1 team aren't we. We were the only side who challenged AUstralia in Australia in the last decade.. right? We absolutely blasted Akhtar all over in Pakistan in the last 2 tours. Only match we struggled was against Asif not a genuine quick by any means. Anderson,Flintoff who were bowling at 145 clicks when they were in India. why couldn't they get the better of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I don't see so many posts and reasons and protests when very gentle paced bowlers like current Munaf, PK, Vinay Kumar, Unadkad etc. get the India cap actually and prove to be very very ordinary as bowlers, to put it politely. Apart from Zak all other pacers have been inconsistent and non dependable. Then why does the ordinary bowling of a genuine quick get separated for attention and thrashing when he is not actually playing for our country ? Why this allergy to pace ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 I don't see so many posts and reasons and protests when very gentle paced bowlers like current Munaf' date= PK, Vinay Kumar, Unadkad etc. get the India cap actually and prove to be very very ordinary as bowlers, to put it politely. Apart from Zak all other pacers have been inconsistent and non dependable. Then why does the ordinary bowling of a genuine quick get separated for attention and thrashing when he is not actually playing for our country ? Why this allergy to pace ? Bowlers don't get hit around just because of the pace. Umesh yadav still gets hit around. If you are crap it doesn't matter whether you are fast or slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Bowlers don't get hit around just because of the pace. Umesh yadav still gets hit around. If you are crap it doesn't matter whether you are fast or slow. Then please critisize all Indian pacers, apart from Zak, because of their severely inconsistent performances inspite of repeated India caps. Let's not single out Umesh even if your personal belief is that pace is immaterial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Then please critisize all Indian pacers' date=' apart from Zak, because of their severely inconsistent performances inspite of repeated India caps. Let's not single out Umesh even if your [i']personal belief is that pace is immaterial. Other pacers don't get hyped like these guys are. Atlesat in this thread it is all about "pace" nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Other pacers don't get hyped like these guys are. Atlesat in this thread it is all about "pace" nothing else. Hyped or not they don't get as many India call ups as the incompetent trundlers. Choosing bad bowlers to play for India can be much more harmful than any hype. If we don't have enough good pacers then, unless the condition is real pacer friendly, we should play more spinners who are of a better quality, like Mishra, Ashwin, Ojha etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hyped or not they don't get as many India call ups as the incompetent trundlers. Choosing bad bowlers to play for India can be much more harmful than any hype. If we don't have enough good pacers then' date=' unless the condition is real pacer friendly, we should play more spinners who are of a better quality, like Mishra, Ashwin, Ojha etc.[/quote'] Ishant clocked 150. He played for India. Umesh yadav played for India. Got hit around without any variation. VRV singh was picked for raw pace. But promptly put in place by Kevin pietersen. Dinda played.. didn't go anywhere. Guys who has won us tests are mostly medium pacers like Sreesanth, RP singh, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Munaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Ishant clocked 150. He played for India. Umesh yadav played for India. Got hit around without any variation. VRV singh was picked for raw pace. But promptly put in place by Kevin pietersen. Dinda played.. didn't go anywhere. Guys who has won us tests are mostly medium pacers like Sreesanth, RP singh, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Munaf. you are wrong Ishant hit 150 after playing for India. before that he was 135 bowler. how many matches dinda and yadav got to play for India not more than 3 to 5..and dinda has done reasonably well while likes sreeshanth played WC, dinda is at least better than sreeshanth in ODIs..he is not mindless. Likes of Rp singh and pathan have been thrashed plenty of times and still have got a lot of chances and then they found themselves out...when our trundlers like rp, pathan are all same kind why do not we give confidence and time to our new generation who wants to bowl fast.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Ishant clocked 150. He played for India. Umesh yadav played for India. Got hit around without any variation. VRV singh was picked for raw pace. But promptly put in place by Kevin pietersen. Dinda played.. didn't go anywhere. Guys who has won us tests are mostly medium pacers like Sreesanth, RP singh, Irfan Pathan, Zaheer Khan, Munaf. VRV Singh did not have raw pace atleast when he played for India. He was the tall, bouncy type. He hardly touched 145k. He got very few chances. Dinda is also not an out and out quick bowler, he is fast medium. Sreesanth and RP, in the very very few matches that they won us, were bowling around 140k. At their peak, when they were performing well, they even bowled some deliveries around 145k. Munaf started out as an out and out quick when he was taking wickets in test mathes in the intial part of his career. He was touhing 145k and making batsmen like KP jump up. He lost pace tremendously and his test wickets also came down. Zaheer has matured only in the last 2/3 years. The initial 6/7 years in his career had been quite ordinary. A fast-medium bowler with around 7 years experience can definitely be good if he is the thinking and hard-working type but that wastes the first 6/7 years. Irfan had magical swinging ability. When we rarely find such talent then I am all for letting such bowlers play without tampering with them in any way. Almost everybody sees the potential that Ishant has especially in the test matches, when he matures. Maybe he is maturing this season. Did you see yesterday's match ? This is the effect when you have pace, bounce, line, length, swing, cut -- all at the same time. It is way more potent than just movement or just pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 munaf was never quick he at his quickest just about touched 144 like a lot of other ind pacers 130-medium pace 140-medium fast 150-fast medium 160-fast no...wrong categorization...160 is a rare delivery that happens in years... right criteria is this. less than 125K ---medium 125-135k-----------medium fast 135-145K-----------fast medium 145k+---------------fast That is the criteria used by ICC and cricinfo in categorising pace bowlers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 munaf was never quick he at his quickest just about touched 144 like a lot of other ind pacers 130-medium pace 140-medium fast 150-fast medium 160-fast All the good international batsmen who played him claimed that he was genuinely quick. His quickest was 145k. The pace check shows the release pace of the ball, not the pace at which the ball reaches the batsman. Many bowlers have the ability to generate pace and bounce off the pitch and hence a disparity arises between the pace check reading and the pace the batsman feels. Munaf had this quality the first season that he played. 120-126-medium pace 127-133-medium fast 134-142-fast medium 143-150-fast 151-160-injury or chucking :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 My understanding is anything over 90 mph is considered to be fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Very impressed with his performance in IPL so far. We're onto something substantial here. Its ironical that Abhimanyu Mithun got so much hype and publicity as being India's tearaway quick and yet, hardly anyone has seen him clock anything above 140. But here's a guy who is rarely clocking anything below the 140 mark, crossed even the 150 mark (which is in the realms of GENUINELY quick) and yet, hardly anyone even talks about him. Just goes on to show, much how difference being from one of the high-profile state sides (Mumbai, Delhi, Karnataka etc.) makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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