Is IPL one of the reasons for India's dismal performance in World T20, 2010?

[vvvslaxman]

To some extent mental weariness contributes towards this lackluster performances. Even the usual effervescent Raina was not really as energetic as he was in IPL. They clearly lacked motivation. Gauti's running between the wickets was a prime example. He just didn't care. More than the physical weariness, mental weariness and sense of complacency that nobody is going to question you even if you fail has crept in. Dhoni was tactless on most of the times. He just didn't bother to talk to bowlers soon enough. He asked Jadeja to bowl wide of the off stump until he was hit for 6 sixes in a row. General rustiness from everyone could be seen there. You play hard and lose. Fine. That wasn't the case there.

[thevortex]

That is a myth. They can't handle any kind of bowling. Pakistan received more short balls than Indians. More people got out to short balls. Raina looked the most awkward. But he was the highest run getter for us. We have to stop hiding behind bouncer excuses. It is a combination of dumb captaincy (which captain would opt to chase when his bowling is below par) and generally poor form and bad selection. Naturally our out of form batting side struggled to chase totals that had RRR over 8 or 9. Even in Tests you cannot become an inform batsman overnight. In T20' date=' it could take more than ten T20 games to get some form going. That is why you should alway pick a side that is having inform players.[/quote'] Whether we like it or not, Pakistan have not found to be vulnerable to the bouncer like the Indians. Even in that crucial game against the Australians in the semifinals - their batting struck gold. The Aussies were just slightly better. The Pakistani batting has other weaknesses just as the Sri Lankans have. But the short ball is not among the top ones as far as those teams are concerned.

[vvvslaxman]

Whether we like it or not' date= Pakistan have not found to be vulnerable to the bouncer like the Indians. Even in that crucial game against the Australians in the semifinals - their batting struck gold. The Aussies were just slightly better. The Pakistani batting has other weaknesses just as the Sri Lankans have. But the short ball is not among the top ones as far as those teams are concerned.

Ever wondered they didn't play on Barbados pitch but played on St.Loucia's pitch which was flatter than Indian roads? And even on those pitches they got out to more bouncers than India. Raina made a 101 and a 60 plus on that pitch. Vijay smacked the living daylights out of Tait at CHennai. Would that mean he is good?

[someone]

Ever wondered they didn't play on Barbados pitch but played on St.Loucia's pitch which was flatter than Indian roads? And even on those pitches they got out to more bouncers than India. Raina made a 101 and a 60 plus on that pitch. Vijay smacked the living daylights out of Tait at CHennai. Would that mean he is good?

Stupid You say pakistan played/batted well against Australia only for one match so they cannot be considered good against short pitch bowling or any bowling attack. But at the same time, you mention Vijay who also played one good match but in vijay case, because of one match, you will always regard him as a good player against short pitch bowling. And blaming pitch only as the difference is not rite. It is not like it is the first time we India were damaged by short pitch bowling. However, the difference between us and Pak, is our perception. When a bowler bowls a short pitch delivery, our batsman are already under pressure as they know this moment will be analyzed deeply as our media and we have a perception that we are always poor players. Because of this additional pressure given by us indian fans and media , the indian team fail ultimately

[vvvslaxman]

Stupid You say pakistan played/batted well against Australia only for one match so they cannot be considered good against short pitch bowling or any bowling attack. But at the same time, you mention Vijay who also played one good match but in vijay case, because of one match, you will always regard him as a good player against short pitch bowling. And blaming pitch only as the difference is not rite. It is not like it is the first time we India were damaged by short pitch bowling. However, the difference between us and Pak, is our perception. When a bowler bowls a short pitch delivery, our batsman are already under pressure as they know this moment will be analyzed deeply as our media and we have a perception that we are always poor players. Because of this additional pressure given by us indian fans and media , the indian team fail ultimately

No.. last time it happened was on Lords slope. Indians struggle against short balls on fast and bouncy pitches. Not all Indians i must say. Rohti sharma played brilliantly on the same pitch. I said on flat pitch Indians don't struggle against bounce as much as on a fast pacy pitch. That is a fact. One of the reason Raina was able to heave the short stuffs across the line in St.lucia was because the pitch was not as bouncy not as quick. Against short balls you have to give yourself time and pick the right ball. But with RRR is 9 you hardly think about giving yourself time do you?

[vvvslaxman]

My point is it is not true Pakistan batsmen are better against bounce compared to Indians. Infact they were brutally exposed time and again by lot of teams in all the formats. Atleast we struggle only in T20 games where you have to constantly score runs quickly.

[achilles]

Whether we like it or not' date=' Pakistan have not found to be vulnerable to the bouncer like the Indians.[/quote'] Take a :bow: brother, take a :bow:

[Precambrian]

Just check India's and Pakistan's batsmen's records in Australia, it will show who has struggled on bouncy pitches.

[thevortex]

Ever wondered they didn't play on Barbados pitch but played on St.Loucia's pitch which was flatter than Indian roads? And even on those pitches they got out to more bouncers than India. Raina made a 101 and a 60 plus on that pitch. Vijay smacked the living daylights out of Tait at CHennai. Would that mean he is good?

You have got to ask that of the tournament organizers, vvslaxman! They can only play on the surface they got. And by the way it would even be curious to open a poll on this. They are NOT as vulnerable to the short ball as the Indians. I dont think it is a technique thing. Rather I believe it is a mental thing. It takes a lot to cow the Pakistanis down. You can accuse them of a lot of different things. But having a weak mind is not one of them. I am not saying all Indians have weak minds or anything like that, mind you :). But I think you know what I mean vis a vis bouncers and Indian batsmen. Do you think Indians would not have gotten bouncers if they had played that match against Australia in St. Lucia? They most certainly would have. Like I said the Pakistani batsmen have other problems. But a pronounced vulnerability against the short ball is not one of them.

[thevortex]

We just need conditions with a bit of swing.. we will show who is weak against what http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/australia-embarrassed-by-reverse-swing/story-e6frg7mo-1111117805308

Like I said, vvslaxman, they have different weaknesses. But that is irrelevant to what we were discussing, right?

[someone]

My point is it is not true Pakistan batsmen are better against bounce compared to Indians. Infact they were brutally exposed time and again by lot of teams in all the formats. Atleast we struggle only in T20 games where you have to constantly score runs quickly.

Easy to say but hard to prove. You are using some examples where India team played well against short pitch bowling but using all examples about Pakistan where they have played bad against short pitch bowling so at the end, you say just because you mention more examples where India played better and none for Pak, Pak are worse at short pitch bowling prevalent to your bias in my research. Also, what is the point of saying who is better in short pitch bowling. Cuz in the end, Pakistan are a much better side than us in T20 at least for now. Anyone disagreeing deserves a slap and needs to look at himself carefully and forget the bias. Just like we rightfully say India is better than Pak in other forms, we have to rightfully accept Pak is better than us in t20. Nothing wrong in giving others some credit rather than just praising yourselves and living in your own world.

[ZodiaC]

Zodiac - batting cannot be broken down into as simple a thing as a paunch. Yes' date=' that can and will affect his fielding. But not necessarily his batting. And yes, batting is such a confidence aspect. One can never deny that a couple of relaxed practice match innings could have made a difference. [/quote'] Again you are hypothesizing, but seriously what difference could've that made for the Indians? They won 3 matches against better teams that they'd have faced in practice matches. Those two matches against some minnows would've helped really, you think? I'm not talking about him being out of shape will affect his batting, but that indicates his lack of commitment.

And I am not sure you are serious about comparing IPL with Ranji matches! How many Ranji matches do you know that conclude days before a major ICC tournament and do not allow time for practice matches???

Ranji trophy matches are played always in the months of Nov-Jan..And IPL in March-April/April-May... Anyways I'm responding to the claim that IPL is exhausting.. They might not have played any major ICC tournament, but they do play international matches soon after ranji don't they? Like even test series?

About the Indian vs international, I have spoken my mind earlier. It is not the international players who have to adjust to extra bounce. It is the Indians. And the Sri Lankans and Pakistanis are better at handling bounce than the Indians. So, think about who needs practice matches the most....

Pakistani's are handling better bouncers better than Ind? Okay, even if so, it's our weakness which we haven't worked upon.. Playing two practice matches against some random minnows would've helped them in rectifying a weakness which they haven't for an year? Dude, you must be kidding.. :cantstop:

[vvvslaxman]

^^^ Vortex has woken up after 15 years it seems. They are getting hunted by Aussies like jews were by Hitler. Yet he has come up with a strong statement :cantstop:

[vvvslaxman]

Easy to say but hard to prove. You are using some examples where India team played well against short pitch bowling but using all examples about Pakistan where they have played bad against short pitch bowling so at the end, you say just because you mention more examples where India played better and none for Pak, Pak are worse at short pitch bowling prevalent to your bias in my research. Also, what is the point of saying who is better in short pitch bowling. Cuz in the end, Pakistan are a much better side than us in T20 at least for now. Anyone disagreeing deserves a slap and needs to look at himself carefully and forget the bias. Just like we rightfully say India is better than Pak in other forms, we have to rightfully accept Pak is better than us in t20. Nothing wrong in giving others some credit rather than just praising yourselves and living in your own world.

By virtue of India being crap with improper selection. Pakistan has lost just as many matches as India in this world T20. Coming into T20 they lost 2 out of 3 against England and Australia. They are no better T20 side thanus atleast in current form It is a format where 3 or 4 teams can beat each other regularly. My contention is not who is better in T20. My contention is about hypothesis where Pakistan is better against short bowling. They are far worse than us. Proven so many times in all formats. How can you blindly say they are better when their players have some of the worst batting technique against any kind of bowling. There was a statistical analysis during this world T20 posted by Rajesh about how many short balls received by each asian team against Australia and how many batsmen got out. Pakistan was the worst in that list. They played Australia at St.Loucia both times which was similar to any subcontinent flat pitch where as Barbados was bouncing all over. India had to chase 8 plus and 9 plus every single time when they were dealt with bouncers.

[someone]

By virtue of India being crap with improper selection. Pakistan has lost just as many matches as India in this world T20. Coming into T20 they lost 2 out of 3 against England and Australia. They are no better T20 side thanus atleast in current form It is a format where 3 or 4 teams can beat each other regularly. My contention is not who is better in T20. My contention is about hypothesis where Pakistan is better against short bowling. They are far worse than us. Proven so many times in all formats. How can you blindly say they are better when their players have some of the worst batting technique against any kind of bowling. There was a statistical analysis during this world T20 posted by Rajesh about how many short balls received by each asian team against Australia and how many batsmen got out. Pakistan was the worst in that list. They played Australia at St.Loucia both times which was similar to any subcontinent flat pitch where as Barbados was bouncing all over. India had to chase 8 plus and 9 plus every single time when they were dealt with bouncers.

Not again. Another Indian who believes India is always best and perfect and it was only because of improper selection that we failed to win. First improper selection is a nonsense excuse. Based on hindsight and nothing more, The players we took do not suddenly become bad or unfit players after they lose a match. The squad was good enough to win it and it was only because of one reason we failed.The opponents were better or more prepared than us on that day. Get over it, it is not the end of world Next, if you keep blaming our team weakness to some other issues like selction so to only prove that India is the best. Then,you should also say India would have been Olympic champions if there were proper selection and players trained harder. So forgot your excuses. Finally,Pakistan is a better team than us in t20. No reason to hide or feel sad. They performed the best in t20 over the past years just like how we say we are better than them in tests, odi, they are better than us in t20. Get over it and learn to give respect and credit to opponents rather than always saying their success is because of some of incorrect selection. So forget your bias and start to learn from others strength or else you will always just deny your own weakness.

[vvvslaxman]

Finally,Pakistan is a better team than us in t20. No reason to hide or feel sad. They performed the best in t20 over the past years just like how we say we are better than them in tests, odi, they are better than us in t20. Get over it and learn to give respect and credit to opponents rather than always saying their success is because of some of incorrect selection. So forget your bias and start to learn from others strength or else you will always just deny your own weakness.

Totally disagree in this current form. You are not even looking at their current record. Lost against Australia Lost against England won against England Lost against Australia won against Bangladesh Lost against England Lost against New zealand won against SA Lost against Australia How do you say they are better. They suck just as much as we suck. It is just that not many teams didn't take T20 seriously up until now. Now that everyone is playing seriously Paksitan is getting exposed badly.

[someone]

Totally disagree in this current form. You are not even looking at their current record. Lost against Australia Lost against England won against England Lost against Australia won against Bangladesh Lost against England Lost against New zealand won against SA Lost against Australia How do you say they are better. They suck just as much as we suck. It is just that not many teams didn't take T20 seriously up until now. Now that everyone is playing seriously Paksitan is getting exposed badly.

You really don't learn. You are just living in denial and in your own world believing India is the best and always upcoming up with some kind of proof to defend yourself. But their are many Indians like you who believe this, no wonder why we all do talk but never perform. You think we have no weakness even if we have , our all weakness is due to blame of some people like selectors and furthermore, you always look to criticize other teams just to prove that we are better than them as the other teams have so many faults.Praising one team does not mean I lke them or should not be regarded as insult to other teams. Finally, you mention their record, what about ours? Dont just give one part of story and conclude we are the best.

[asterix]

Someone in the forum is sounding more and more like a Passionate P...

[someone]

Someone in the forum is sounding more and more like a Passionate P...

not really just disappointed to how people rate India cricket team so highly that anyone better than us is impossible.

[Chandan]

Indian express editor Shekhar Gupta is urging the fans not to fall into the trap the BCCI setting for them, but for once keep themselves aware of the real cause of the dismal performance of India and see how BCCI is trying to cover it up! Racket before wicket Shekhar Gupta ......Cricket is so important to us, and among the many things that may have gone wrong with our sport, our improving performance in cricket stands out as a wonderful exception. But that was last week. Maybe, if I had been confronted by that Pritchett slide this Friday instead of the last one, I would have kept my mouth shut. Because suddenly now the talk is not about success and glory. It is about lack of fitness, commitment, indiscipline, poor selection, inability to play the short ball and, as is inevitable after a debacle overseas, a brawl in a pub. Suddenly the very people who gave us so much pride are looking like a national embarrassment. Surely a week is a long time in cricket. Inevitably, again, while the media is full of “expert” analysis on what went wrong, the BCCI and its free-loaders are out playing the one game all mafiosi are good at: running a protection racket. Within hours of the appearance of stories that coach Gary Kirsten was livid about his players’ fitness and commitment, fresh leaks have now surfaced saying there was no problem with any player. And that all that was lacking with this team was the ability to play the short rising ball. But you will have to be a novice at cricket, or an American, to be fooled by that. Because if Indian cricketers are still so scared of the short ball, how come they have been the best performing team against Australia for almost a decade now? And how come they just walloped South Africa in ODIs, after handing out an innings defeat to draw a Test series and retain its number one spot? South Africa, by the way, boasts the fastest bowlers in today’s cricket, led by one Dale Steyn. Inability to play pace is an old excuse which no longer works. How come the short ball only affects Indian cricketers in T20s while they can handle it quite nicely in the longer formats where the most dreaded fast bowlers have longer spells and more attacking fields? And again, look at the numbers. You are being told we lost because of short-pitched bowling. Maybe against Australia, but chasing 185 in a world cup is a challenge anyway, so could it be that we lost the match with lousy bowling and lousier fielding, where fitness and commitment are key, rather than because our top order could not handle Dirk Nannes who, by the way, held no such terrors bowling for the Delhi Daredevils in IPL? In the match against the West Indies, chasing 170, we scored 155 which (at nearly 8 per over) is not such a bad score for a team that supposedly can’t play the short ball, and that too for the loss of just five wickets. And the loss to Sri Lanka? Who do they have to dig it into your ribcage? Go back a year to figure out where the same BCCI apologists and rented commentators first started building short-pitched bowling as an excuse for our own lack of fitness, discipline and application: the match we lost to England at Lords in the super-8 stage. Remember the scores then? We were chasing 154, and we got to 150 and yet were not bowled out (150-5, with Dhoni and Yusuf Pathan batting). We may have won if there was just one more ball remaining. What is the point therefore? It is, that the failure of this Indian team in two successive T20 world cups, or its inability to get those four runs against England last year and 15 against the West Indies this time, or to build a bigger challenge than 164 after averaging more than 8 per over at the half-way mark with just one wicket lost against Sri Lanka is not because of any sudden weakness against the short ball. It is because of the awful, awful timing of the IPL, which concludes less than a week before the T20 world cup. And that is a fact the Board and its protection-racketeers are so desperate to hide. Because that is the gravy train they can’t get off. Doesn’t matter if it is meanwhile running over Indian cricket. It isn’t just that the IPL is leaving players injured or fatigued. Players, as Sangakkara had the good sense to state, have the right to decide whether or not to play IPL. But is that a decision you can leave to individual players? Maybe a Tendulkar or a Dhoni can afford to sit out of a future IPL to preserve himself. But a Rohit Sharma, a Piyush Chawla, a Zaheer Khan? I mention those three names in particular because, if you go back to your T20 world cup footage, theirs are the chubbiest cheeks and they are some of the people Kirsten is complaining about. Fatigue and injuries are a part of sport. It is more about the lowering of the professional bar, whether it comes to fitness, lifestyle, alcohol, smoking and, as Dhoni finally said with emperor-has-no-clothes candour, the parties on match nights that players are contract-bound to attend. No professional sport in the world runs like that. Or the other fixing, networking and non-cricketing money-making that has gone on with IPL where cricket has been given absolutely the last priority. The overall decadence and lack of scruples and such un-cricket-like sleaze that characterise the phenomenon that IPL has now been allowed to rot into cannot have left the players unaffected. That is why the chubby cheeks, missed catches and the lack of that bit of extra commitment that takes a team from 150 to 154 or 155 to 170 and victory. It is nothing to do with short-pitched bowling. Do not listen to Board officials, or to former cricketers or commentators who happen to be either hired by it, or are on the various IPL councils. It is that web of vested interests that is conflicting with your cricket and ruining it, not Dirk Nannes. ------------------------------------------------------- So once again a reputed and responsible journalist is blaming IPL not only for the defeat in this World T20 but almost undoing all the good works by the 5 extraordinary cricketers and a couple of selectors teams with a bit of the vision. Now all that vision lies in the bin with no plans for future and present of the young cricketers already in tatters. Who is responsible for that. Obviously BCCI which has become so blind in the dazzle of IPL that it is giving its middle finger to every other international tournament!!