The **** is wrong with Israel?

[seedhi]

Never said Israel was a part of NATO. What I did say was NATO countries have criticzed Israel' date=' you can check that rather easily.[/quote']What else do you expect them to do? Turkey is a NATO member, they will have to stand with it publicly at least.

I think you are getting prematurely excited at what will happen to Israel. Easily Israel is losing friends, even close ones, and that is hardly great diplomacy.

If you look at the history of Israel, this action of it is among the milder ones (and in fact justified under international law). Israel has bombed a US warship, stole ships from a French harbour and bombed the nuclear reactor in a foreign country. Nothing is going to happen to it.

My argument was more towards Turkey which is one of the Islamic countries that West has the largest stake in. No reason to antagonize a Muslim country that is on your side. The only people who would be happy would be the Islamic right wingers who would celebrate Turkey's losses and shout out aloud "We told you so"... ..and the right wing Indians of course. xxx

In this case it was Turkey which has threatened Israel. It also picked up a fight with China a while back. If it wants to slide down the Islamic route then why should the west compromise itself or Israel to arrest that slide. Ofcourse left loonies like you will support Turkey which recently delivered a massive snub to India in the Istanbul conference on Afghanistan, practically embracing the pakistani re-colonization of that region. Perhaps you should look carefully at what is going on between Turkey and pakistan before making judgment calls.

[bharathh]

The Israelis should have waited till the boat was in their territory before boarding the ship. Also they could have tasered the protesters. More effective than guns to accomplish what they wanted to do. They were stupid not to do so. Rightly the world reaction is against them for using live ammo on the ship. This was obviously a publicity stunt by the protesters. How would they have broken through the blockade with the ships they had? A very stupid move by Israel.

[f2000560]

...and here comes an uneducated paki troll to throw in some of his lahori logic. B-> the jews bought the land from the British under the official british mandate for Palestine. so practically all the land that currently makes up israel was legitimately acquired. you want to talk about stolen land ? then let's talk about the 1/3rd of kashmir pakistan currently occupies.

the british mandate ?? for all the hypocrisy of the muslim world whats happened to the plaestinians is nothing short of injustice. Its like saying the british could have sold india in 1947 to the US or maybe to the highest bidder. If they were so keen to give the jews a homeland why didn't they sell them london ? The british mandate you refer to was not agreed upon brush upon your history. Britain pretty much threw its hands upon the air and said i can't get these guys to agree after which there was pretty much a fracas where israel took most of the land most of which was palestinian before that . Its not too dissimilar to the pakis sitting on 1/3 rd of kashmir actually illegally occupying it after independence as much as i hate to side with a paki on this one much of the Israeli state has been acquired by conquest and immigration to boost the argument for a Jewish state accompanied by large scale evacuation of the arabs. of course all this gets lost in the larger tragedy "the holocaust"

[Lurker]

If you are going to shamelessly continue banging about your bakwaas theories someone has to standup and show you the mirror.

Is that how you console yourself? Chanting your own fata horn in every post mindlessly, coming across as a total whatever-you-can-think-of...and then thinking you are "standing" up to me(or folks like me). Bhai saheb if thats the case you might as well sit down!! I have no intentions of making you stand in an online world lol.

And you and your leftist liberal haramis are (harami+loony)^infinity ... Now what ?

Nothing. I forgot your golden words the moment I read it. It is you who would be get all his undergarments in a twist the next time bhagwa loony is invoked...maybe you already are!! :winky:

[Manny_Pacquiao]

the british mandate ?? for all the hypocrisy of the muslim world whats happened to the plaestinians is nothing short of injustice. Its like saying the british could have sold india in 1947 to the US or maybe to the highest bidder. If they were so keen to give the jews a homeland why didn't they sell them london ? The british mandate you refer to was not agreed upon brush upon your history. Britain pretty much threw its hands upon the air and said i can't get these guys to agree after which there was pretty much a fracas where israel took most of the land most of which was palestinian before that . Its not too dissimilar to the pakis sitting on 1/3 rd of kashmir actually illegally occupying it after independence as much as i hate to side with a paki on this one much of the Israeli state has been acquired by conquest and immigration to boost the argument for a Jewish state accompanied by large scale evacuation of the arabs. of course all this gets lost in the larger tragedy "the holocaust"

if it's bought than the ownership changes hands. it went from the brits to the jews. end of story. its legitimately theirs. plus there were jews in the holy land for a long time, so they have just as valid a claim on the land as anyone else. yes, there was immigration but that was just a consequence of the genocide taking place in europe. the analogy with the pakis owning 1/3rd of kashmir is a poor one, because they had no legitimate basis for taking land that was signed off to india by the monarchy as part of the accession.

[Lurker]

What else do you expect them to do? Turkey is a NATO member, they will have to stand with it publicly at least.

Or...giving the benefit of the doubt, and avoiding any conspiracy theories, the pragmatic thing to do would be to take these countries word at its face value. Instead of going moronic about NATO angle..no??

If you look at the history of Israel, this action of it is among the milder ones (and in fact justified under international law). Israel has bombed a US warship, stole ships from a French harbour and bombed the nuclear reactor in a foreign country. Nothing is going to happen to it.In this case it was Turkey which has threatened Israel. It also picked up a fight with China a while back. If it wants to slide down the Islamic route then why should the west compromise itself or Israel to arrest that slide.

All the points you raised are of a bygone era when Uncle Sam was supporting it. Taking nothing away from Israel who have a wonderful Defence Institution and Intelligence capabilities it is easy to agree that US has played a pivotal role in its sustenance. This relation is not in its best phase and when Netenyahu was in US recently he was given a not-so-warm welcome in White House, with complete ommission of photo-op. It was widely seen as a soft lashings of sorts(you should be able to pick all of these via online if you dont know it already). I see US as supporting israel for a while in the future but with each such measures Israel shall dig its own grave.

Ofcourse left loonies like you will support Turkey which recently delivered a massive snub to India in the Istanbul conference on Afghanistan, practically embracing the pakistani re-colonization of that region. Perhaps you should look carefully at what is going on between Turkey and pakistan before making judgment calls.

I am guessing that you are hinting at India's ommission from Istanbul conference. Well turkey has already admitted it was a mistake and invited India for next round.

[f2000560]

Isnt this exactly how the Islamic countries came to be ? What goes around comes around No ?

I do not argue that but BB that was a different day and age what were acceptable then has undergone a change (for the better or for worse). its like half of asia saying lets go smash and conquer mongolia rape their women decapitate them ! what goes around comes around ! or maybe we should just go attack Greece for what that Alexander bugger did coming all the way to the Indus strutting about on his pony had this act of aggression been committed by some one else on somebody else the world wouldn't have just sat there and watched. For the west it is just a way to atone for centuries of antisemitism.

[Lurker]

Dude you dont even have clothes FFS .... you loose your freakin chaddi every time you get into a discussion on Jihadi topics not just me but with everyone ... kabhi tau sharma kaaro miyan ...

on that note....keep stroking your ego till some random thread comes along to bajao your own bajaaa:winky:

[seedhi]

I am guessing that you are hinting at India's ommission from Istanbul conference. Well turkey has already admitted it was a mistake and invited India for next round.

India runs one of the largest aid efforts in Afghanistan. The omission was a calculated snub and not a simple mistake. It is quite clear that Turkey is pursuing a more Islamist agenda, vying for space with the two other jokers Saudi Arabia and Iran. This flotilla was part of the same jostling on the external side, and with the secular military on the inside. We (Indian govt) need to be a dispassionate about this whole power game. Our interests lie in preventing any re-ascendancy of pakistan in the region, which apparently has been countenanced by Turkey. We dont need to unnecessarily sour our relations with Israel (public posturing aside) over something which has really nothing to do with us.

[f2000560]

if it's bought than the ownership changes hands. it went from the brits to the jews. end of story. its legitimately theirs. plus there were jews in the holy land for a long time' date=' so they have just as valid a claim on the land as anyone else. yes, there was immigration but that was just a consequence of the genocide taking place in europe. the analogy with the pakis owning 1/3rd of kashmir is a poor one, because they had no legitimate basis for taking land that was signed off to india by the monarchy as part of the accession.[/quote'] "In 1922, the League of Nations granted the United Kingdom a mandate over Palestine under terms similar to the Balfour Declaration.[63] The population of the area at that time was predominantly Arab and Muslim, with Jews accounting for about 11% of the population.[64]" this was the UN plan in 1947 after more influx compare it current borders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_Palestine#Land_ownership if you say the jews had a claim don't the arabs have a far larger claim on the land ? how would you like it if some one came and took over you house and sent you to the guest bedrrom on the claim that his grandfather used to stay there ? as far as kashmir is concerned again you have your history muddled princely states were given a choice Hari singh wanted to remain independent ( or atleast didn't take a call) . Pakistan well being pakistan attacked with irregulars ( under the guise of freedom fighters) after which hari singh acceded to India and only then did India send its troops to protect what was now legitimately theirs so the sequence of events is a wrong but yeah they attacked land which they didn't have a claim on Pretty much same analogy no decision was reached by the british mandate was reached in the british mandate but the isreali declare independence ( the arab states attacked first though) isreal thulps them takes most of the land for itself even that which it did not have a claim on legitimately

[Lurker]

India runs one of the largest aid efforts in Afghanistan. The omission was a calculated snub and not a simple mistake. It is quite clear that Turkey is pursuing a more Islamist agenda' date=' vying for space with the two other jokers Saudi Arabia and Iran. This flotilla was part of the same jostling on the external side, and with the secular military on the inside. We (Indian govt) need to be a dispassionate about this whole power game. Our interests lie in preventing any re-ascendancy of pakistan in the region, which apparently has been countenanced by Turkey. We dont need to unnecessarily sour our relations with Israel (public posturing aside) over something which has really nothing to do with us.[/quote'] I do not neccessarily disagree with the larger point you are making, and that is to read the whole scenario with an eye on our own national interest. However to do that one would have to act dispassionately, as you have rightly pointed out, and avoid being a cheerleader. My dispassionate assessment is rather simple: a) Israel is pushing itself furthermore into the corner(as is borne by criticism coming out of almost every country). b) No reason for Israel to antagonize one of the handful Islamic countries that has political relationship with it. c) Indians, specially right wing nutcases, should avoid becoming a cheerleader for Israel and call out when it goes wrong. xxx

[f2000560]

You are sadly mistaken .... Just imagine what would happen to the world if the Islamic harami states were to become militarily powerfull .. say even a fraction of what the Civilized world is today.

it is a scary thought agreed. the power center in some of these states is so concentrated it just needs one loony at the top. but do you really think the west and world is going to let an islamic state grow stronger then them in military might. Surely some of the islamic nations do not lack the financial resources but the trouble is barring Iran i do not see any other islamic nation having the capability ( engineering & science) to develop military indigenously despite having ample motivation to develop its military which is why amerika is gunning for it. The rest just depend on scraps from amerika pakistan included. They will be militarily powerful so long as it suits amerika.

[The Outsider]

ohh reely ? Care to point one such thread where I simply proclaimed I was right and you were wrong which is what you and your minni-mes do most times and indeed right here on this thread ?

:hysterical::hysterical: Umar ho rahi hai, Bossbhai. Emotions par control karo kahin kuch blood pressure ki problem na ho jaaye! Rejoice in your online adalats, victories, and spankings instead of going wild on that poor keyboard.

[seedhi]

I do not neccessarily disagree with the larger point you are making, and that is to read the whole scenario with an eye on our own national interest. However to do that one would have to act dispassionately, as you have rightly pointed out, and avoid being a cheerleader. My dispassionate assessment is rather simple: a) Israel is pushing itself furthermore into the corner(as is borne by criticism coming out of almost every country). b) No reason for Israel to antagonize one of the handful Islamic countries that has political relationship with it.

We need not worry, Israel is powerful enough to fend for itself. Nothing is going to happen. In this case Israel has launched a successful media campaign in the US which shows the violence perpetrated by the "peace activists" aboard the ship. US support is intact. Even Turkey is only posturing, as we speak it is purchasing $200 millions worth of drones from Israel.

c) Indians, specially right wing nutcases, should avoid becoming a cheerleader for Israel and call out when it goes wrong. xxx

Which Indian political group do you see cheerleading for Israel, individual support aside? On the other hand you very well know that there is an Islamist section virulently opposed to Israel, along with the leftist loons. The Indian leftist loons have a history of bad judgment, today they have become the spokesmen of the Maoists from top to bottom. Their irrationality has and will cost India in foreign policy - according to their logic we should embrace pakistan and shun Israel.

[Jadoo]

You are sadly mistaken .... Just imagine what would happen to the world if the Islamic harami states were to become militarily powerfull .. say even a fraction of what the Civilized world is today.

:nervous::nervous: Would not want to even contemplate that, it would be one fecked up world.

[Lurker]

Ego my ***** .... it dont put food on my table ... I have long given up on Indian interests ... A country with a citizenry that prefers to keep the Jihadis well fed in the hope that they dont bite deserves what it gets on a regular basis.

Okay baba. We are spineless toothless pc lot who need to be emancipated by loonies like you. Khush? :hatsoff:

[yoda]

Incidents like this makes me wish that Aliens come and just crush our pathetic race once and for all.

[Lurker]

We need not worry' date=' Israel is powerful enough to fend for itself. Nothing is going to happen.[b'] In this case Israel has launched a successful media campaign in the US which shows the violence perpetrated by the "peace activists" aboard the ship. US support is intact. Even Turkey is only posturing, as we speak it is purchasing $200 millions worth of drones from Israel.

Successful media campaign? Bhai saheb you might be the only one following it. Here every media outlet is going after Israelis. After the whole argument of "Hey we fired with paintball...and look they hit us with chairs" was put to rest, most outlets have been questioning Israel's stance. As someone who has seen Israel coverage for a while in USA I can assure you there is a shift(against it). You of course dont have to take my word for it.

Which Indian political group do you see cheerleading for Israel, individual support aside? On the other hand you very well know that there is an Islamist section virulently opposed to Israel, along with the leftist loons. The Indian leftist loons have a history of bad judgment, today they have become the spokesmen of the Maoists from top to bottom. Their irrationality has and will cost India in foreign policy - according to their logic we should embrace pakistan and shun Israel.

I didnt say Indian political groups now, did I?? I clearly mentioned Indians. Do I need to explain that Internet is replete with Indians, almost all of them right wing loonies, who seem to get all orgasmic about Israel come, pun accidental, no matter what? The reason why politicians dont act as blind cheerleaders is because of the votebank. Who knew votebanks could also do something nice? xxx

[Sachinism]

Incidents like this makes me wish that Aliens come and just crush our pathetic race once and for all.

Dec 21, 2012 :woot:

[seedhi]

Successful media campaign? Bhai saheb you might be the only one following it. Here every media outlet is going after Israelis. After the whole argument of "Hey we fired with paintball...and look they hit us with chairs" was put to rest' date= most outlets have been questioning Israel's stance. As someone who has seen Israel coverage for a while in USA I can assure you there is a shift(against it). You of course dont have to take my word for it.

I didnt say Indian political groups now, did I?? I clearly mentioned Indians. Do I need to explain that Internet is replete with Indians, almost all of them right wing loonies, who seem to get all orgasmic about Israel come, pun accidental, no matter what? The reason why politicians dont act as blind cheerleaders is because of the votebank. Who knew votebanks could also do something nice? xxx

How can you fail to notice the Islamists and the left loonies which consider Israel to be a plague? And yes I am talking of that votebank which has caused us harm in foreign policy/courtesy before. Under pressure from the left loonies and the Islamists, Bush was not allowed to speak in the Indian parliament even though Manmohan Singh did address the Congress in 2006. Our Defence Minister avoids visiting Israel even though he has been invited multiple times and Israel is our second largest supplier of arms. Had we bowed always to the leftist loons and Islamists, India would still not have had diplomatic relations with Israel. The problem is that unlike the so called "right wingers" the leftist loonies and the votebank have a sway over the current government which makes them miuch more dangerous. Look at the shambles our anti-Maoist policy is in - a direct effect of leftist loony influnce.

I dont see such a shift at all. Israel did well to record the incident and release videos showing the hooligan peace activists. That video is all over the internet and has been shown in the news which ameliorates the situation for Israel. Look at the mild response from the US govt. There is no video of Israeli soldiers shooting as Israel probably destroyed all the cameras, so I think mediawise Israel has done well.