Times article on Indians in Edison, NJ - racist?

[punjabi_khota]

If by brains you mean memorizing spelling of words that one would never use...sure. Not entirely surprising. It would be futile to think this is a tendency observed in the Big House only. I can recite stories about how the big Indian IT giants are the official ***** in Western world. Sure they are making money hand over first but if you ever get a chance to observe the Indian IT Project Managers, and higher ups, in front of the client you shall quick come crashing down on how "we have arrived". But my larger point of course was about the impression of immigrant population. Good in studies..and well thats that. Personally I would much rather have the flair of a Spain, or a sporting nature of Brazil and Aussies...which they carry overseas as well. Just me. xxx

you are quite a self loathing indian dude...a **** load of Indians in US have enormous power and respect in the american society...it is the highest earning immigrant population. You keep whining about the IT giants and their crappy ways but never seem to mention, for example the huge amount of Indian doctors that rule the US medical scene...a lot of these kids that win the spelling bees will go on to become doctors or scientists etc..because they develop the hard-working spirit doing these competitions..it is not all a waste.

[Lurker]

you are quite a self loathing indian dude...

Knew that was coming sooner than later..

[Clarke]

But my larger point of course was about the impression of immigrant population. Good in studies..and well thats that. Personally I would much rather have the flair of a Spain, or a sporting nature of Brazil and Aussies...which they carry overseas as well. Just me. xxx

Isnt that sort of impression borderline racist ? Are all Aussies supposed to be sporting and all Spaniards full of flair ? I always preferred having my own identity and if some part of it is nerdy, thats me and not my race/nationality. I find this sort of thinking is no different 4m the padosi mindset of 'we eat red meat and hence we're stronger and bowl faster' ideology.

[bharathh]

There is nothing wrong with being known for being good at studies. I am proud of what our diaspora has achieved through their hard work.

[ludhianvi]

Sure they are making money hand over first but if you ever get a chance to observe the Indian IT Project Managers, and higher ups, in front of the client you shall quick come crashing down on how "we have arrived".

Any stories to share?

[yoda]

Indians in the US are arguably the most successful immigrant population. This includes among many things starting hi-tech ventures in the Silicon Valley, being some of the top notch contributors to the hi-tech Industry in the valley. It is amazing how instead of being proud of ourselves how we find ways to minimize and mock our achievement. Talk to any chinese in the US and you will never hear any of the BS being thrown out by "Indians" here.

[seedhi]

If by brains you mean memorizing spelling of words that one would never use...sure. Not entirely surprising. It would be futile to think this is a tendency observed in the Big House only. I can recite stories about how the big Indian IT giants are the official ***** in Western world. Sure they are making money hand over first but if you ever get a chance to observe the Indian IT Project Managers, and higher ups, in front of the client you shall quick come crashing down on how "we have arrived". But my larger point of course was about the impression of immigrant population. Good in studies..and well thats that. Personally I would much rather have the flair of a Spain, or a sporting nature of Brazil and Aussies...which they carry overseas as well. Just me. xxx

Your posts lend credence to my belief that some Indians like you are the worst kind of racists : against their own ethnicity.

[yoda]

Your posts lend credence to my belief that some Indians like you are the worst kind of racists : against their own ethnicity.

there is good news though. there are very few like that, at least from my experience.

[gs]

If by brains you mean memorizing spelling of words that one would never use...sure. Not entirely surprising. It would be futile to think this is a tendency observed in the Big House only. I can recite stories about how the big Indian IT giants are the official ***** in Western world. Sure they are making money hand over first but if you ever get a chance to observe the Indian IT Project Managers, and higher ups, in front of the client you shall quick come crashing down on how "we have arrived". But my larger point of course was about the impression of immigrant population. Good in studies..and well thats that. Personally I would much rather have the flair of a Spain, or a sporting nature of Brazil and Aussies...which they carry overseas as well. Just me. xxx

Also, the worrying trend is we seem to be adept at only using already existing technologies to create end user applications. Cant think of one good originial tool or application that Indian IT giants have created - so much for the IT revolution in India. When will a Wipro/Infosys/TCS emulate an Intel, Apple, Microsoft or Google and come up with something really innovative or path breaking? What is more disconcerting is that substantial amount of staff at Intel, Apple, Microsoft or Google are Indians! So is it that Indians are innovators only when working for a foreign employer?? Why has the glorious Indian private sector (assuming its more or less free of the obstacles created by govt. bureaucracy in public sector) failed to generate the same amount of innovation?? All they seem to be creating is the next generation IT clerks of the world.

[Ram]

Your posts lend credence to my belief that some Indians like you are the worst kind of racists : against their own ethnicity.

Eithger you're being deliberately dishonest or you have some serious comprehension problems. What part of ‘I know our people are good at studies, but to me, all that success is only superficial and achieved through rote learning. I wish as a community, we were more entrepreneurial, outgoing and socially active’, sounds like ‘I hate Indians in America, I am racist against them’ to you? To even suggest that Lurker is even remotely loathsome of the success achieved by Indians abroad is ridiculous. I have been following his position on this issue for more than three years now and all along, he has begged us to be more forthright and not be mere pawns in the whole IT outsourcing malarkey. How pathetic that you throw around terms like ‘racist’ so casually and loosely. Do you even know what that means? Have you even seen a real ‘racist’? Shame on you for such blatant mischaracterization. At least from now, I suggest you read the sentences at least a couple of times before resorting to your usual misrepresentation and misquotation.

[yoda]

Also' date=' the worrying trend is we seem to be adept at only using already existing technologies to create end user applications. Cant think of one good originial tool or application that Indian IT giants have created - so much for the IT revolution in India. When will a Wipro/Infosys/TCS emulate an Intel, Apple, Microsoft or Google and come up with something really innovative or path breaking? What is more disconcerting is that substantial amount of staff at Intel, Apple, Microsoft or Google are Indians! So is it that Indians are innovators only when working for a foreign employer?? Why has the glorious Indian private sector (assuming its more or less free of the obstacles created by govt. bureaucracy in public sector) failed to generate the same amount of innovation?? All they seem to be creating is the next generation IT clerks of the world.[/quote'] How many Googles/Microsofts/Apples/Intels are there worldwide? Are there any European versions or any Chinese or Brazilian versions? The US is special in more ways than one.

[gs]

How many Googles/Microsofts/Apples/Intels are there worldwide? Are there any European versions or any Chinese or Brazilian versions? The US is special in more ways than one.

Agreed. But India is a special case too. No other country claims to have IT as its forte like India does nor can they claim to have the kind of contribution that Indians can in the success of Googles/Microsofts/Apples/Intels. What baffles me is why cant the same Indians deliver while working for an Indian employer?!? China may also qualify as a borderline case, but they are still far far ahead of Indians in terms of high technology even if they are a generation behind the US and western Europe. At worst, they are capable enough to at least pirate/reverse engineer :cantstop:

[bharathh]

It is true that until now, entrepreneurship is something that the Indians have not been too good at in the tech sector. There are a lot of factors that are responsible for this: 1. Indian universities having almost 0 original research capabilities. Other than in IIS, there is almost no path breaking research done in India. After all, what can researchers hope to make in India? No one respects researchers there. Therefore, they flock to the greener pastures of the US. 2. Starting a business is incredibly hard in India. Unless you have plenty of money to grease the palms of the greedy officers of the license raj, nothing gets done. Most innovators know nothing about starting and maintaining businesses. The complications and impediments thrown into their paths by our bureaucrats makes it worthwhile not to start a business.

[Lurker]

you are quite a self loathing indian dude...a **** load of Indians in US have enormous power and respect in the american society...it is the highest earning immigrant population. You keep whining about the IT giants and their crappy ways but never seem to mention' date=' for example the huge amount of Indian doctors that rule the US medical scene...a lot of these kids that win the spelling bees will go on to become doctors or scientists etc..because they develop the hard-working spirit doing these competitions..it is not all a waste.[/quote'] Yep. Goes on to prove the whole nerd immigrant thingy I spoke about earlier. By the by I am not surprised by the denial-cum-defensiveness mindset. People battle these days on MBs about why iPhone's are a god's gift...why should an immigrant feel any different???

[seedhi]

You have some serious comprehension problems. What part of ‘I know our people are good at studies' date= but to me, all that success is only superficial and achieved through rote learning. I wish as a community, we were more entrepreneurial, outgoing and socially active’, sounds like ‘I hate Indians in America, I am racist against them’ to you? To even suggest that Lurker is even remotely loathsome of the success achieved by Indians abroad is ridiculous. I have been following his position on this issue for more than three years now and all along, he has begged us to be more forthright and not be mere pawns in the whole IT outsourcing malarkey. I suggest you read the sentences at least a couple of times before resorting to your usual misrepresentation and misquotation.

Lurker has made it quite clear that he loathes the lifestyle of Indians. He WANTS Indians to be more like Spain or Brazil. Well no one is stopping Lurker to be more like Spanish or Brazilians, but the fact that he is obsessed with transforming the lifestyle of the entire Indian community speaks enough about how he feels "being Indian" is a drag on him. And I dont understand his absurd assertion that the success of Indian-Americans is based on rote learning - a laughable extrapolation from his possibly imperfect understanding of his own minute world of IT outsourcing. So for him there are no Indian scientists, doctors, engineers, inventors? Or an acknowledgment of the overwhelming presence of Indians in research positions in universities (compared to their percentage in population). It is outrageous to dismiss all of them as rote-learners. Also according to him, apparently Indians are not entrepreneurial enough .. LOL! Give me a break - Indians own a hell of a lot of commercial enterprises, from motels to restaurants to grocery stores all over the USA. But he cant bring himself to recognize this perhaps because owning small businesses is not classy entrepreneurship for Lurker. Anyway, I call him for what I see him as and I am not the only one on this thread who has done so.

[yoda]

Agreed. But India is a special case too. No other country claims to have IT as its forte like India does nor can they claim to have the kind of contribution that Indians can in the success of Googles/Microsofts/Apples/Intels. What baffles me is why cant the same Indians deliver while working for an Indian employer?!?

First of all IT doesn't mean R&D. It just means what we are currently doing, providing world class IT. If it wasn't world class, companies wouldn't be using those services to tune of Billions of dollars. Secondly, Google and MS weren't started by Indians. While Indians have started some innovative tech companies in the US, the kinds you are referring to have been started by freaks who are a by product of the American culture. There are no Steve Jobs or Bill Gates anywhere in the world, that is the truth. It is still doesn't mean we suck as a group. Just that we are different, good at different things.

[Lurker]

Isnt that sort of impression borderline racist ? Are all Aussies supposed to be sporting and all Spaniards full of flair ? I always preferred having my own identity and if some part of it is nerdy' date= thats me and not my race/nationality. I find this sort of thinking is no different 4m the padosi mindset of 'we eat red meat and hence we're stronger and bowl faster' ideology.

I do concur with that actually. We should be responsible for our own self. However the very reason we have this thread, and discussions around it, should answer very well on how an average mindset works. With regards to sporting thingy, yes an average Brazillian(or Aussie) would merit a different kind of response. Just that an average Indian kid(or Chinese) would merit a different response in terms of studies etc. Nothing wrong with stating that really. As for padosi mindset when, if ever, would be we get over them?? They suck in studies as well as sports, we atleast excel in the former. Why compare even? And yes I am generalizing and like all generalization it has its pitfalls. xxx

[Ram]

Yep. Goes on to prove the whole nerd immigrant thingy I spoke about earlier. By the by I am not surprised by the denial-cum-defensiveness mindset. People battle these days on MBs about why iPhone's are a god's gift...why should an immigrant feel any different???

Lurks, as much as I’d like to sympathize with your position, I think you’re being extremely harsh here. What do you want Indians in the US to do? Start winning every alternate gubernatorial races, become speaker of the House of Representatives, play in the NBA and race in NASCAR? I think you should be mindful of the fact that unlike other immigrant communities, most of us came here white collared workers and not as traders and entrepreneurs. Traditionally, education and knowledge has been the USP of our community. So its only natural that immigrant Indian families insist on carrying on that tradition. As our roots grow deeper and stronger, I am sure at some point in within the next 2-3 generations, you will see Indians diversifying into other areas and avenues as well, but surely, you cannot possibly complain about Indian kids being good at spelling bee.

[Lurker]

Also' date=' the worrying trend is we seem to be adept at only using already existing technologies to create end user applications. [b']Cant think of one good originial tool or application that Indian IT giants have created - so much for the IT revolution in India. When will a Wipro/Infosys/TCS emulate an Intel, Apple, Microsoft or Google and come up with something really innovative or path breaking? What is more disconcerting is that substantial amount of staff at Intel, Apple, Microsoft or Google are Indians! So is it that Indians are innovators only when working for a foreign employer?? Why has the glorious Indian private sector (assuming its more or less free of the obstacles created by govt. bureaucracy in public sector) failed to generate the same amount of innovation?? All they seem to be creating is the next generation IT clerks of the world.

Bingo! (And welcome to the self-loathing racist club by the way :giggle: ) For a nation whose top companies are now amongst the best in the world in IT really what have we achieved?? How many iPhones, Google, ERP systems have we created?? yes I mean products and not implementation. TCS has been around for 30 years, Infy for 25 years or so..so what have they really done aside from a big marketing capital?? The point that I think of is the very same as what you stated - Are we creating IT geniuses, or IT clerks for the world??? xxx

[Lurker]

Lurks' date=' as much as I’d like to sympathize with your position, I think you’re being extremely harsh here. What do you want Indians in the US to do? Start winning every alternate gubernatorial races, become speaker of the House of Representatives, [b']play in the NBA and race in NASCAR?

Matter of personal taste and all that but yes I wouldnt mind Indian kids showing up in sports everywhere(not too enamoured by politics). As for not being here for long, check up ongoing world cup soccer, many teams have immigrants(Europeans in particular). It is not that they have been living there forever, they are also 1st generation, or 2nd in some cases. If you think Indians have done that well we can disagree. Lets just admit our saving grace, at home and abroad, has been education. And when we move abroad we carry that mindset. If thats being harsh so be it. xxx