It is getting out of hand

[Cricket_Guru]

now talibans taregt the Data Darbar. seriously pakistan is messed up big time, ahmadi mosques being targetted, shia places beign targeted and only thing was missing was a shrine, a shrine of most popular relegious or most known and respected personality in asia sufi data ali hajveri. 3 bomb blasts, kills 30+ injured 100+ mbO-mGj0DBc etKKU5IjPZs its time of saddness for not country(its just a land) but the peacefull and locals living in this part of the world. I am crying from inside, cant go to sleep, depression is taking over me.

[EnterTheVoid]

actually you still dont realize what the REAL problem is ....

Please elaborate.

[EnterTheVoid]

The million dollar question is, whether you learn anything from this or just find a scapegoat to blame your problems (i.e. INDIA). Based on previous incidents, I am inclined to lean towards the latter

[someone]

Imo, the real worry has got to with India, Pakistan has nuclear arms, the country is struggling with the rebels.

[Cricket_Guru]

The relegious dilemma which is building up is very known among all the muslims. 75% of the population are sunni's, then you have shia's, wahabi's and then ahmadis with minority, the place which just got targeted is of a sufi saint of sunnis, and wahabi's(getting paid by saudi's) hate each other just as much as zaid hamid and bal thakary(but being a muslim keps them going along together. shia's hatred for wahabi's is more then sunnis, so for wahabis hate for shia's(shia's are the people following the law and rules of iran, iraq relegious leaders) then we have ahmadi's, because the beating they've got in 60's, and being called non muslim by pak parliament, been peace full group since the restriction but someone wants them to get involve in this too. what i dont understand, is which quran does these people follow, who is there role model, prophet muhammad or osama bin laden. if i start a write up about what quran really teaches, then every single thing which is happening or being done by muslim is the major sins and punishment for it is unthinkable. now why am i wasting your time, but maybe a fellow muslim on this forum might agree with me.

[asterix]

Islam needs tolerance..Somewhere, in some text, people are learning to be 'in-tolerant' and the religious schools/madrasas, religious leaders have to take the blame and need a huge introspection. Something is wrong somewhere. You just cannot churn out jehadis after jehadi like rice mills churning out polished rice and then wonder why this is happening because the holy book and the religion teaches peace and 'tolerance'. If it doesn't preached 'tolerance' and doesn't mentions that 'only Islam is the right path and there is no scope of other sub-religions to branch out' and all other are misguided, then you know where the problem is... Many sub religions have branched out from Hinduism like Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism and have become major religion of their own.

[Cricket_Guru]

Islam needs tolerance..Somewhere, in some text, people are learning to be 'in-tolerant' and the religious schools/madrasas, religious leaders have to take the blame and need a huge introspection. Something is wrong somewhere. You just cannot churn out jehadis after jehadi like rice mills churning out polished rice and then wonder why this is happening because the holy book and the religion teaches peace and 'tolerance'. If it doesn't preached 'tolerance' and doesn't mentions that 'only Islam is the right path and there is no scope of other sub-religions to branch out' and all other are misguided, then you know where the problem is... Many sub religions have branched out from Hinduism like Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism and have become major religion of their own.

good point, but how would these un eduated people know. we muslim need to pray 5 times a day, and in Quran it is mentioned at more than 300+ places to read 5 times prayer, that seems alot, but in the same line or around about same page, there is a verse or saying about being tolerant. i am memorising full quran by heart, and come across this verse so many time "ya ayu hala zina ama nustinu bi sabri wasalat transalation "o beleviers of the day of judegement be patient and tolerant and perform prayer, so i come across this word so many time that i get mixed up as what i am reading.

[Texy]

Pakistanis are feeling what we have felt for years...... yet back then there was no cry of outrage because it was happening in India to kaffirs right?....where was the cry when jihadis from PoK were slaughtering, raping Kashmiri pundits in the valley? where was the outrage when Pak army single handedly slaughtered thousands of hindus in Bangladesh? Where was the outrage when paki jihadis mercilessly slaughtered devotees going to Amarnath yatra in Kashmir or simply praying at Akarshdham temple?

[asterix]

Tolerant to what? Other people, religions, birds, goats, insects? Open ended text leave lot's of scope of 'mis-interpretation'. This emphasis on a 'regime' to obeyingly follow the 'path' leaves no scope of personal developement and thinking.. Bieng an Hindu, I don't have to follow religiously most of the things religiously everyday. I don't even pray everyday. There are people who 'follow' the religion as a way of life and don't take 'much load' about how they are following. There is promise of 'Swarg ( Jannat/Heaven) or getting out of this human birth-rebirth cycle (Nirvana) but that's just it. There's no 'enforcement' to follow. If you can 'follow' in a good pattern mentioned in the holy books, that's more than enough. The important thing is the realisation that 'all paths lead to a common goal'. There's no 'my path is right your path is wrong business'. You don't even have to read and memorise religious books...

[Mamu]

Blaming all of this on 'Muslims' is so insane. It is very easy to answer that. Oh -- 'Muslims' are a problem, Muslims are this, Muslims are that. But what people are ignoring is -- Pakistan is NOT the only Muslim nation. This problem is pertinent to only Pakistan. Look at Morocco, Turkey, Indonesia and Malaysia. How come people live a different set of life style there ? What is different in those countries from Pakistan. 1) Wrong Edcuation. 2) 'Hatred' being taught and bred within the society. 3) And probably the biggest problem is the fabric, the very root, the very foundation of the Paki society is infested with people who are wrong. There are teachers in public shools who teach things wrong. In Pakistan they are not only tolerated, but in some cases also encouraged. There are police men who are supposed to protect the society -- but many of them are directly or in-directly involved with the terrorists. And the ISI and Army I don't even want to talk about them. They are a folk-lore world over. And last but not the least -- refusal of Pakis to stand up and take reponsibility for their actions, instead of blaming it on others -- which they tend to do very easily.

[Mamu]

Here is what I am talking about. How insane is this The 2nd statement bolded is expressed by a TEACHER. She/He is teaching eaxctly that to the students who growup learning EXACTLTY that.

LAHORE: Pakistanis lashed out Friday at the US, blaming its alliance with their government and its presence in Afghanistan for spurring two suicide bombers to kill 41 people at the country's most important shrine. The reactions showed the challenge facing Washington and the Pakistani government when it comes to rallying public support against the extremism that has scarred the South Asian nation, even after an audacious attack. On Friday, few Pakistanis interviewed saw militants at the root of the problem. ''America is killing Muslims in Afghanistan and in our tribal areas (with missile strikes), and militants are attacking Pakistan to express anger against the government for supporting America,'' said Zahid Umar, 25, who frequently visits the shrine. Pakistanis are suffering because of American policies and aggression in the region, said Mohammed Asif, 34, who runs an auto workshop in Lahore. He and others said the attacks would end if the US would pull out of Afghanistan. Washington ''is encouraging Indians and Jews to carry out attacks'' in Pakistan, said Arifa Moen, 32, a teacher in the central city of Multan. Pakistani officials condemned the bombings, using language they have frequently used to try to convince the population that the fight against militancy is not one they can ignore. ''Those who still pretend that we are not a nation at war are complicit in these deaths,'' said Farahnaz Ispahani, a spokeswoman for Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari. The US Embassy issued a statement Friday condemning the attack and saying it ''demonstrates the terrorists' blatant disregard for the lives of the Pakistani people and the future of this country.'' The targeted shrine is that of Data Ganj Bakhsh Hajveri, who lived hundreds of years ago and traveled throughout the region spreading a message of peace and love. He eventually settled in the Lahore area, and his shrine is the most revered and most popular of Sufi shrines in the nation. Some recent attacks in Punjab have been blamed on the ''Punjabi Taliban.'' The group is a relatively new network of al-Qaida-linked militants who have split off from other local insurgent groups but also has ties to the Pakistani Taliban, which has its bases in the northwest tribal regions. The suicide bombings have fueled anger against Pakistan's weak police forces, who appear helpless to stop the killings. In the hours after Thursday's bombings, demonstrators gathered outside the shrine to protest the security lapse, only to be dispersed after police fired into the air and threw rocks at them. Senior Lahore government official Khusro Pervez said recent intelligence alerts about possible attacks lacked details. ''The intelligence agencies alerted us that terrorists could target prominent places, shrines and mosques in Lahore. They mentioned names of major places as a possible target, but no specific information was available to us,'' he said. – AP

[Manny_Pacquiao]

The relegious dilemma which is building up is very known among all the muslims. 75% of the population are sunni's, then you have shia's, wahabi's and then ahmadis with minority, the place which just got targeted is of a sufi saint of sunnis, and wahabi's(getting paid by saudi's) hate each other just as much as zaid hamid and bal thakary(but being a muslim keps them going along together. shia's hatred for wahabi's is more then sunnis, so for wahabis hate for shia's(shia's are the people following the law and rules of iran, iraq relegious leaders) then we have ahmadi's, because the beating they've got in 60's, and being called non muslim by pak parliament, been peace full group since the restriction but someone wants them to get involve in this too. what i dont understand, is which quran does these people follow, who is there role model, prophet muhammad or osama bin laden. if i start a write up about what quran really teaches, then every single thing which is happening or being done by muslim is the major sins and punishment for it is unthinkable. now why am i wasting your time, but maybe a fellow muslim on this forum might agree with me.

This is awful. I can only sympathise with the vast majority of the paki population. but there is a solution for all this. Total and complete independence for all the different muslim sects. Let the Shias and ahmadis have their own countries instead of oppressing them as part of a sunny dictatorship. You know it makes sense. hopefully the shias and ahmedis will have their own jinnah-like leader to lead their campaign for freedom. inshullah. even though the funny thing is that jinnah thought it was reasonable to make a separate homeland for muslims, which was an idea that has clearly unraveled over the years. but what the hell, it makes things a lot more interesting and gives them a reason to do suicide bombings

[Pioneer]

Here is what I am talking about. How insane is this The 2nd statement bolded is expressed by a TEACHER. She/He is teaching eaxctly that to the students who growup learning EXACTLTY that.

I'm afraid what you are doing here is merely propaganda, you can't just whip out an article from the web and say its because of the "fabric" of Pakistani society. Take a look at this: http://australianetworknews.com/stories/201007/2943993.htm?desktop

Shops and offices have been shut in Pakistan's eastern city of Lahore in a protest strike over suicide attacks on an Islamic shrine which killed 43 people. Police say they have 'apprehended' several people in an investigation into Thursday's bombings, which targeted a packed Sufi shrine. But there have been no formal arrests. Protesters also took to the streets on Friday, burning tyres and blaming Taliban extremists for the attacks in Lahore.

You cannot make sweeping statements like that without knowing exactly what you're talking about.

[Cricket_Guru]

http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=467552&postcount=53 also check the last few pages of 70 jawans thread : http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=216400&page=18

picking bits and bites from quran is never been the way to translate the meaning of what is actuallt being said. sometime a verse cannot be completed and translated unless you have a full dimension of what is being said/mentioned before or after the pointed verse. more importantly/ the quran wasnt revealed at one go, it took 23 long years for it to be completely revealed, it was revealed in bits and bites, all according to the situation of the times. these verses against the non-believers are not for the any non believer but the non believers who were against islam at the time of prophet. non to mention the 2 big wars between muslims and kufars in the life of Prophet PBUH, so understand the consept than misjudging what and why it is actually being said. it is narrated abu bakr the companion of prophet that during war of badr, prophet PBUH told everyone not to kill innocents, children and if any women come in front of you do not kill her, do not damage the tress which give fruit, do not damage the fields which grow crops, but fight with those who fight with you. ......il be back, need to go..............

[asterix]

picking bits and bites from quran is never been the way to translate the meaning of what is actuallt being said. sometime a verse cannot be completed and translated unless you have a full dimension of what is being said/mentioned before or after the pointed verse. more importantly/ the quran wasnt revealed at one go, it took 23 long years for it to be completely revealed, it was revealed in bits and bites, all according to the situation of the times. these verses against the non-believers are not for the any non believer but the non believers who were against islam at the time of prophet. non to mention the 2 big wars between muslims and kufars in the life of Prophet PBUH, so understand the consept than misjudging what and why it is actually being said. it is narrated abu bakr the companion of prophet that during war of badr, prophet PBUH told everyone not to kill innocents, children and if any women come in front of you do not kill her, do not damage the tress which give fruit, do not damage the fields which grow crops, but fight with those who fight with you. ......il be back, need to go..............

The problem is not what non-followers are interprateing or misinterprating..The problem is what the followers are interprating and acting upon...Please spare the World..

[Cricket_Guru]

The problem is not what non-followers are interprateing or misinterprating..The problem is what the followers are interprating and acting upon...Please spare the World..

i didnt bring the non-followers in, in my opening posts i mentioned what is the basic propblems within the muslim society

[Mamu]

I'm afraid what you are doing here is merely propaganda, you can't just whip out an article from the web and say its because of the "fabric" of Pakistani society. Take a look at this: http://australianetworknews.com/stories/201007/2943993.htm?desktop You cannot make sweeping statements like that without knowing exactly what you're talking about.

Pioneer: I don't exactly understand what are you trying to convey. What has the article that you cut and paste go to do - -with what I am trying to convey ? Did you 1st understand -- what I am trying to say ?