Dhoni - the test batsman

[putrevus]

So you mean those who perform in lost matches ,are the players for crisis,:hysterical:

look at odi stats he has been good when everybody else failed, it shows he has gumption to fight when rest of them fail. For all the press he gets as match winner he has done little to justify that tag especially overseas. Sachin tendulkar scored 175 against Aussies in lost cause but everyone agrees that was better knock than his double hundred.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

he can be a top 6 when india play at home. but nowhere else.

[Sid]

look at odi stats he has been good when everybody else failed, it shows he has gumption to fight when rest of them fail. For all the press he gets as match winner he has done little to justify that tag especially overseas. Sachin tendulkar scored 175 against Aussies in lost cause but everyone agrees that was better knock than his double hundred.

now you are mixing odis with tests,

[Jersey #10]

He is a good yet very unorthodox test bat.

[Fontaine]

If Dhoni was just the wicket keeper then yes, by rights his batting could be criticized. But you have to put his situation in perspective. He's also the captain of the team in possibly the world's most difficult captaining role with a team that has a very limited bowling line up. I would say that he probably gets to spend the least amount of time on his batting. His first priority is as captain, then wicket keeper and then finally Dhoni the batsmen.

[thevortex]

Outsider - it is not about the status quo! That is what I have been saying time and time again. We need an attacking strategy. And to execute that, we need an all rounder. Given that we dont have one readymade we will have to use a makeshift one - such as a wicket keeper batsman. And Dhoni coming in at No.6 would help the team in so many ways. If he cannot do that, then we may have to look at other options. It is as simple as that. For Tests, in particular. Of course everything changes if we unearth that magical all rounder. :) Again this is a statement not to be generalized. Today we are not able to play 5 bowlers even in cases where that might be warranted. In cases where that strategy is warranted we can do what is suggested above.

[kabira]

I don't like 5 bowler theory anyways. 4 good bowlers are good enough.

[thevortex]

It is not that a 4 bowler strategy is the one to go with all the time. The same applies to the 5 bowler strategy. These things evolve based on personnel, wickets, conditions and other such extenuating circumstances. On these Sri Lankan wickets, I would much rather have extra bowlers (especially given India's bowling attack) than squander a position on an extra batsman.

[thevortex]

And for people who point to Raina's runs - well, Mithun scored runs too. As did Mishra. What about that? End of the day - we have to think about which of the strategies can help India win and win consistently. An extra batsman or an extra bowler?

[kabira]

totally wrong view. If you have 4 good bowlers, the bowlers who can take wickets, thats the best strategy. Go and Look at dominant windies and dominant aussie team. They did not have perfect allrounder. If 4 bowlers can't do the job, 5th bowler won't do the job as well. Extra batsman helped us drew the game in SSC. and extra batsman scored crucial run. When you are batsman short you put lot of pressure on top order.

[saneindian]

And for people who point to Raina's runs - well, Mithun scored runs too. As did Mishra. What about that? End of the day - we have to think about which of the strategies can help India win and win consistently. An extra batsman or an extra bowler?

When was the last time we played 5 bowlers and won? Lets expand this further, when was the last time you saw a test side play 5 bowlers (not 4 bowlers+ 1 allrounder) and win tests.

[thevortex]

When was the last time we played 5 bowlers and won? Lets expand this further, when was the last time you saw a test side play 5 bowlers (not 4 bowlers+ 1 allrounder) and win tests.

I have answered this question earlier as well. How many times have you played 5 bowlers???! We just have not gone down that route at all. And it is all in the context. On featherbeds would you take the extra batsman or the extra bowler? Its that simple a question.

[thevortex]

totally wrong view. If you have 4 good bowlers, the bowlers who can take wickets, thats the best strategy. Go and Look at dominant windies and dominant aussie team. They did not have perfect allrounder. If 4 bowlers can't do the job, 5th bowler won't do the job as well. Extra batsman helped us drew the game in SSC. and extra batsman scored crucial run. When you are batsman short you put lot of pressure on top order.

You know - I have always read this statement with a smile on the face and without really offering a rebuttal. But I probably have seen it one too many a time :). Lets take your logic there. If 4 bowlers are not able to do the job, then the 5th bowler will not. So, I guess you are not taking that view when you are saying that even if 5 batsmen failed, your 6th will still do the job?! How does that work pray? For the nth time - please dont look at the 5 bowler strategy as something that needs to be used all the time or even regularly. Just horses for courses. When you need to attack, when you need to cover the bowling unit more than the batting unit - why not use it?!

[kabira]

>Lets take your logic there. If 4 bowlers are not able to do the job, then the 5th bowler will not. So, I guess you are not taking that view when you are saying that even if 5 batsmen failed, your 6th will still do the job?! How does that work pray? The reason you need 5th bowler is because pitch is batsman friendly right?? Else why would you need the 5th bowler. When you go with 5 batsman, you are putting yoru batsman under lot of pressure. I have observed even Sehwag tends not to play his natural game. This strategy does not suit us at all. Lets say we had 5 bowlers in SSC what difference would it have made?? Same thing here in Premadasa

[thevortex]

>Lets take your logic there. If 4 bowlers are not able to do the job, then the 5th bowler will not. So, I guess you are not taking that view when you are saying that even if 5 batsmen failed, your 6th will still do the job?! How does that work pray? The reason you need 5th bowler is because pitch is batsman friendly right?? Else why would you need the 5th bowler. When you go with 5 batsman, you are putting yoru batsman under lot of pressure. I have observed even Sehwag tends not to play his natural game. This strategy does not suit us at all. Lets say we had 5 bowlers in SSC what difference would it have made?? Same thing here in Premadasa

I dont know Kabira. That sounds pretty directly counter-intuitive to me. If the pitch is batsman friendly why would you hesitate to put pressure on the batsmen? In fact what is the pressure? Lets say you have a wicket which assists the bowlers. Would you go with 5 bowlers there?

[kabira]

Pressure of runs. Pressure that we are batsman short. Pressure of increases responsibility. >Lets say you have a wicket which assists the bowlers. Would you go with 5 bowlers there? No way, not even if I have 5 Sachin Tendulkars in my team.

[thevortex]

Pressure of runs. Pressure that we are batsman short. Pressure of increases responsibility. >Lets say you have a wicket which assists the bowlers. Would you go with 5 bowlers there? No way, not even if I have 5 Sachin Tendulkars in my team.

Are we assuming that the pressure of runs being scored by the opposition is not there for the bowlers? It is the same. It is just that the Indians have always wanted to ensure that they will NOT lose and then after that they figure if the win is still waiting they can pick it up. Classic defensive tactics.

[kabira]

tell em why did Australia not go with 5 bowlers when they had Mcgrath and Warne. Gilly could have very well be their number 6?? There is reason for that. It takes one ball to get out for a batsman. its curtains for them. Bowler may bowl bad still can make a comeback with good spell.

[vamos_rafa]

Dhoni can bat Under difficult Conditions' date=' But is no Gilchrist in Test Matches.[/quote'] dhoni has the midset for sure..... but yes of late he has struggled.... lets c wat he does 2moro..coz one gud innings 2moro cn surely silence the critics...

[vamos_rafa]

I thk you have not seen or heard of following innings: 1. 148 vs pak in faislabad,india were in trouble at to save the follow on,he along with saved that match 2.76 crucial runs in lords test to save india and india went onto win the series,and whenever india has not lost first test in england ,they have won the series in england,so in that context he played a significant role in that series and followed it with 92 in oval 3.Ind vs pak 2007 ,delhi,india tottering at 92-5 and he sored a 57 and a century stand with laxman ti give india first innings lead and india won that match and series 4.He along with harbhajan got india out of the hole in final test at nagpur with crucial 50 and a 100 run stand and eventually india posted 380 as targert for aussies and aussies lost and made quick fire 92 and 50 in mohali test as well 5.The chennai test which we remember for sachins 100 and viru's blitz ,we forger we were in trouble in first innings 6-137 but he gor the half century and top scored with 57 and another crucial stand with harbhajan in that match to keep us within the reach of england 6.2009 ,ind vs nz,wellington test ,india in trouble again 204-6 but agian he along with bhajji got us out of trouble with 50s for both and set up the match for us 7.Ind vs slahmedabad test ,again india under pressure ,he scored a century and along with dravid who also made a great century made our score respectable in the first innings and followed it up with another century in the last match 8.Most recently the 100 vs sa to compltely shut the match from sa and shred a great partnership with laxman and carried on theb great work of viru and sachin So for me Dhoni has been a man for crisis and most of ther times he has delivered and this series has been a exception in that context where he has failed twice once getting out early in secon innings of first test and now this time,he will also be disappointed but to say that he has done nothing will make u aware wat he has done and please dont kamran akmal in this discussion ,he is not a wk ,plus he scores only against us ,so next time when you write make some sense

A few more innings under pressure by MSD: 1)one knock tht ppl dnt rem... wen we toured SA in 2006 in the 2nd test in durban.... with all wckts totering arnd he played a gem of a knock scored arnd 50(which ws great in tht series) and almost saved the match for us...the lights were realy dim and he needd to hang on for some more time but he gave away the wkct..but i rem tht innigs the ball ws flying and everywhere but he played really well.. 2) The famous SCG test which we lost he bided out arnd 3 hrs with Anil Kumble...it ws only a bad decision by steve ****nor tht cost him his wckt...he made arnd 40 odd which ws great acc to the match situation.