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[panther]

diet eat when I am hungry, whatever is cooked.

[Trichromatic]

diet eat when I am hungry, whatever is cooked.

Doesn't work for me.

[panther]

Doesn't work for me.

why not?

[vvvslaxman]

Recomposition - is it possible? some say it is impossible to bulk and cut the same time. Some say it is possible with low carb high protein diet.

[Lurker]

Recomposition - is it possible? some say it is impossible to bulk and cut the same time. Some say it is possible with low carb high protein diet.

No. Works for those who can be obsessiive about it, are 20 years old and dont have kids, career and definitely no missus to worry about :winky:

[akshayxyz]

Recomposition - is it possible? some say it is impossible to bulk and cut the same time. Some say it is possible with low carb high protein diet.

(sustained over few months) bulk and cut (losing fat) at the same time, should be possible for folks with high fat percentages, and not much muscle mass. In other words, fat people (& beginners) who have not done much/none of weight training. If you already have decent muscle mass, and want to minimize muscle loss - while cutting, then ketogenic diets should work better (relatively more muscle sparing) than typical carb centric diet with calorie deficits. Ketogenic diets are not just low carb diets, they are extremely low (practically none) carb diets. There are 3 main types of Ketogenic diets (~60-65% fat, 35-30% protein, <5% carbs): a) CKD (Cyclic ketogenic diets) Best option for someone with already good muscle mass, who does not want to lose strength, and yet wants to lose fat more efficiently than typical carb centric diet. And more importantly, for those who have some social life (you just have to manage 5 days of 'weird' meals). In short, 5 days of keto diets, followed by weekend carb loading. b) TKD (Targeted Ketogenic diets) Good for folks who are not already lifting too heavy, and hence can compromise on a bit of strength. But not too much. For this, once you enter Ketosis, daily some minimal amount of carbs are allowed, pre workout, IIRC. c) Strictly ketogenic diets. For obese/desperate people. You follow the ketosis macros for months, as long as you can manage and/or as long as it takes to reach your goals. You will lose strength, while on ketosis, but should be able to regain strength once you come back to normal diet. As you would guess, obese people wont be too bothered about temporary strength loss. Point to be noted, these are not same as 'starving' diets. You still eat quite a lot of calories (with 5-10% deficit), but energy coming only from Fat+protein. People have also tried combinations of both normal + low carb diets...e.g. Alternating days of high carb and low carb diets. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm (This is as close as it gets to losing fat and gaining muscle simultaneously - but as I said - conditions apply.). There is this variation by Tom Venuto (search for "Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle" pdf) - who claims to have gotten best results by 3 day cycles of - high carb, medium carb, and low carb. P.S. a) You might see some people saying, ketogenic diets are not 'natural'. Which is not true, it is just another kind of alternative nutritional pathway ingrained within our bodies. And even on normal diets, we keep entering/exiting ketogenic states for short periods - depending on blood/liver/muscle glycogen levels. b) If interested in technicalities, for more info on how ketogenic diets work, search for "Lyle McDonald" c) Ketogenic diets are not safe (can be fatal) for certain medical conditions.. IIRC one of the type of Diabetic people. d) From what I experienced, cardio workouts are even more enjoyable on ketogenic diets - once you get used to it. Disclaimer - I am not certified professional, so do your own research :)... When I tried first time - I read around for 3-4 months, before trying myself, almost collapsed once (due to constipation, as I did not account for fiber), then read again for another two weeks, and then successfully executed for 6-7 weeks - resulting in ~5-6 kgs of pure fat loss, and almost no muscle loss (at max a %here or there due to possible calculation errors)

[akshayxyz]

lol, did not realize it turned out this long. Anyway, in case it was not clear from previous post - (Since quite a few here are already muscular). IIRC, for already decently muscular folks - CKD is the best bet, where one can hope to gain a bit of muscle while still cutting fat - over a period of months, or at least minimize muscle and strength losses.

[vvvslaxman]

^ Thanks for the info.. yea.. i think we discussed about this diet.. i also felt it was not natural as we would be devoid of energy. Anyway i am going to reduce carb intake gradually. This bulking for 2 months, cutting for 2 months don't work for me. There is a danger of me getting busy after 2 months and miss the cutting part and i end up becoming a fat slob. What is your diet? chicken, fish, pork etc?

[akshayxyz]

Now a days - I don't do much, except for advising, like above :). Have been postponing a much required cutting for quite long...and lost quite a bit of muscle due to injury lay off.. so have been postponing whether to resume on cutting or bulking. As for, when I did it - the keto diet was like. (this is from memory, if my fitday account is not deleted, I can pull out exact chart) I formulated few meals, and just picked every meal from that small set.. 50 gm almonds + some protein to make the macro ratios. soybeans + cheese/butter. soymilk+ flaxseed oil + some protein, to make the macro ratios. ~6 full eggs with some or 4 full eggs with some cheese + some green vegetable, if available. Some meat ( fish/chicken/mutton) + green vegetables + some butter/cheese ( to account for fat). I must be forgetting few more meal combos...some days I just repeated same meal 2wice a day. I kept variations to minimal. Every meal measured upto grams, and overall ~100/200 calories below maintenance + additional ~400 calorie X 4-5 times a week burnt in the gym. Bottom line - every meal should be ~65F 30P... and any carbs only from green vegetables or some source of fiber... over all carbs less than 30gm per day. (CKD) I tried weekend carb loading only once/twice I guess. After that I just went full strict keto-diet. Later, whenever I tried ketogenic diets, I just went strict keto for 2-3 weeks. And every time it helped to shed about 2-3 kgs. P.S. there is a difference between (simple) low carb diets and ketogenic diets.

[akshayxyz]

One more thing you can try - and as per my understanding of fundamentals - should work. Restrict your carb intake around workout ( before/during/after) and breakfast (if you workout in evenings). All other meals can be zero carb, w/o any impact on energy/strength. Or alternate meals of carb-protein, fat-protein...and avoiding fat with carb (esp simple) meals. And of course - one has to count calories :).

[mhr123]

Well.. a high fundu article by akshay paee... phew ... well TBH various blogs , sites , forum etc use big names to seek attention . At the end of it what works is the basic things which u take. If u see some major BB of yesteryear's they did the same basic things and were big with the best symmetry ever. To be honest ... i also do the basic stuffs and it works,i have added some decent muscles in a couple of year. Try this out and i hope it works for u VVS paee.. i am sure if u do it for a couple of mths u will add a lot of muscles with low fats (this fat wud be taken care with proper Cardio) ... my method wud give u proper food with good carbs/protein and least amt of fat. The other method which i have seen/read add lot of fats with calorie during bulking stage... and when u get fat cells its difficult to get rid off. Well it would be good for ur pocket as well.:two_thumbs_up: Mrng... Oats + boiled eggs white (5 atleast) after 2 hrs Chicpea mixed with 1/2 carrot , 1/2 apple , 1 banana , 1 orange after 2-3 hrs Roti , Chicken (breast preferred) barbecue after 2-3 hrs Roti with Fish barbecue, Beans After 2-3 hrs Chicpea mixed with 1/2 carrot , 1/2 apple , 1 orange (no banana),3 egg whites preferred. Above is loaded with good carbs , Fibre and Protein ... and it has good fat content plus low in cholesterol. Chicpea,oats,fish are all anti-cholesterol and they are the best as they would give u good muscles with low fats ... u can gain good muscles. Sometimes i feel Products like Whey , Creatine are over rated... use them as filler ... i being in a marine co. i am in such a place where u don't get Whey or amino products...i get it from India before i get on board (6mths before stock is over) .. use them as filler in between meals.. don't rely on them ... We had some monsters like Sergio Oliva when no one had heard of Whey .. Ediit: If can add Tuna fish on some days with 2 days Liver ... that wud be icing on the cake

[vvvslaxman]

One more thing you can try - and as per my understanding of fundamentals - should work. Restrict your carb intake around workout ( before/during/after) and breakfast (if you workout in evenings). All other meals can be zero carb, w/o any impact on energy/strength. Or alternate meals of carb-protein, fat-protein...and avoiding fat with carb (esp simple) meals. And of course - one has to count calories :).

I gave up prolonged cardio. I do HIIT . Much like how sprinters have great body despite running. Just 15 to 20 mts. You start losing your muscles only after 40 mts. HIIT has two benefits. One you don't burn muscles much. Two your post workout burning will be much higher than a normal cardio. But it is not easy even for 15 mts.

[akshayxyz]

Well.. a high fundu article by akshay paee... phew ... well TBH various blogs ' date=' sites , forum etc use big names to seek attention . [b']At the end of it what works is the basic things which u take. If u see some major BB of yesteryear's they did the same basic things and were big with the best symmetry ever. To be honest ... i also do the basic stuffs and it works,i have added some decent muscles in a couple of year.

Absolutely agree with that.

Sometimes i feel Products like Whey , Creatine are over rated... use them as filler ... i being in a marine co. i am in such a place where u don't get Whey or amino products...i get it from India before i get on board (6mths before stock is over) .. use them as filler in between meals.. don't rely on them ... We had some monsters like Sergio Oliva when no one had heard of Whey .. Ediit: If can add Tuna fish on some days with 2 days Liver ... that wud be icing on the cake

I agree, as long as you are getting your returns, no need of supplements. Supplements are for lazy bums like me, who need some external motivation, time and again. Creatine is one of the safest supplements, if you understand how it works - you can include it to gain slightly more strength and (I believe) in cutting too.

I gave up prolonged cardio. I do HIIT . Much like how sprinters have great body despite running. Just 15 to 20 mts. You start losing your muscles only after 40 mts. HIIT has two benefits. One you don't burn muscles much. Two your post workout burning will be much higher than a normal cardio. But it is not easy even for 15 mts.

arey yaar, I was talking about diet part. I also believe HIIT is more effective. BTW - I remember, sometime back you posted some joint issues - while on creatine cycle. Weirdly enough, 6-7 weeks back when I was trying to get back to regular gymming, I thought to start with creatine.. to get some extra push. within few weeks I also had some weird discomfort in right elbow. I have used creatine many times, but never had such problem. And today only I realized - the problem is gone, and coincidentally I have been off creatine for 2-3 weeks.

[vvvslaxman]

I am continuing with creatine. Three differences. I take only half the amount i took earlier. Second i take it post workut instead of pre workout. (technically shouldn't matter). I mix with whey and drink post workout. Third i am wearing a wrist band now which takes some load of me.Don't know which one worked. Not that i don't get discomfort anymore. But it is much better. I also agree if you can manage your meal especially protein intake in the most natural way there is nothing like it. It works better in my case. I only started taking almond butter last week. wow.. it has made tremendous difference. I am using it as a pre workout meal along with oatmeal bread. I am able to push it harder than when i was taking muscle milk before workout. I still continue with whey and creatine though.

[vvvslaxman]

i have been scouring craiglist for the last few weeks. I finally got couple of offers. struggling to choose . 1) 90$ I have a Weider weight set and bench. The bench is adjustable and comes with a leg extension (for leg workouts). The weights are all metal and the weight total is 160 pounds. You will have to pick this item up and I am asking $100.00 for this item. 2) 175$ (around 300 lbs) I have a brand new Gold's Gym weight bench, never used after it was assembled. The bench includes a selection of steel and plastic/cement plates, bars (curl, press and tricep), end clamps and dumbells. If you have any questions, please let me know. I will help you carry and load. I was going to build a home gym, but I prefer going to the local gym instead. I just want my basement space back. Gold's Gym weight bench alone costs about $100. Miscellaneous bars and accessories total $150. Dumbells $40. Plates (steel and cement) $200. Total cost $490.00 if you bought this all new. You can get it for less than half. would have posted in bodybuilding.. but these guys would visit there as well

[straighttalk]

Now ask him.. did he get that muscle mass' date=' just by doing body weight routines?[/quote'] dont be so hasty in undermining calisthenics....just look at gymnasts for reference... just as you have to progress in weightlifting...similarly you have to make the bodyweight exercises tough. one way is using dip belts but a better way is to use different angles and balances. for eg pushups> inclined> dips>one hand pushups> one hand one leg pushups> planche pushups?planche pull ups> muscle ups> with added weights>one arm pull ups pistol squats with weights handstand>one handed hand stand calisthenics build relative strength wrt to your body and is good for weight class based fighting sports. plus it is much superior to weightlifting in terms of flexibility and balance. olympic lifts on the other hand requires a much hgher level of skill and technique.

[straighttalk]

http://www.beastskills.com/tutorials/ this is a very good training page for someone wanting to progress in functional strength and fitness only through body weight exercises...but the advanced skills do have a very steep learning curve but its more interesting to do new things rather than just adding weights.

[straighttalk]

Probably not, I think you would build core strength alot more with something like weighted crunches of 12 reps. For lower back part of the core deadlifts would build it up. This is just core strength though.

depends...use a 5lb barbell plate...hold it and try doing pushups..builds ur core one handed pushups...entire body tensions is required onehand one leg pushups lallane pushups...excellent for lower abs... give these a try

[straighttalk]

Mike tyson did push ups and had a great body. For hypertrophy he probs didn't use push ups though. But Im saying push ups don't do anything for hypertrophy or strength' date=' it's got to be something low in reps. They are however great for endurance, boxers need that. What do you mean no scientific evidence, it's common sense weighted crunches at a weight you can do about 12 reps will build core [b']strength. And deadlifts build up lower back part of core... Sure you get a pump, but no size gains These links are not always reliable, there are too many sites on internet with bs broscience, you may be right but I just have a different opinion. My opinion is anything you can do over 15 reps isn't gonna do chit for hypertrophy/strength/power. But it is great for endurance.

crunches dont build functional core strength..they build upper abs muscles...but the abs anatomy is much more complicated than just the visual muscles..to build functional strength (the core is there to keep your spine and body supported under weight)...squats, deadlifts, farmers walk (very heavy), turkish get ups, one arm one leg pushups, hanging leg raises (leg touching ur face), L seats, planche, dragon flags, ab roll out (not on knee but on your toes)..these build functional strong abs... crunches will give you six pack though...and it does it good

[Swing_n_Speed]

For all those bashing body-weight exercises got one word for you----------- Gymnasts. Been following the gymnastic events and the amazing feats of strength not to mention symmetry and muscle tone of the athletes had me gaping. These folks apparently swear by body-weight routines. PS:- Someone make this thread a sticky already!