Class 12 marks, aptitude test for IIT entrance

[Clarke]

Union Minister of Human Resource Development Kapil Sibal on Friday announced major changes in the admission process to the prestigious Indian Institutes of Technology. After presiding over a meeting of the IIT Council in New Delhi, Sibal said that marks obtained by a student in Class 12 along with an aptitude test would decide admissions into IITs and other engineering colleges. He said that modalities were still being worked out to make the changes in the admission process and no timeframe has been set for implementing the new proposals. He also announced that IITs could also offer medical courses if the Medical Council of India gave its approval. The council also decided to enable IITs to recruit foreign faculties which should not be more than 10 per cent of the total faculty strength. http://ibnlive.in.com/news/class-12-marks-aptitude-test-for-iit-entrance/130725-3.html?from=tn =========================== Class XII results, seriously ? From what i remember, the IIT-JEE was what separated the chatur ramalingams from the supremely talented problem solvers. The system has worked fabulously well, one cannot dispute this fact. IITians and other Engineers/Indians, share your views. I fail to understand what Kapil Sibal's intentions are, one of the best brains in Indian politics coming up with such an idea.

[Clarke]

Directors of seven Indian Institutes of Technology (IIT) on Friday opposed a proposal to scrap the IIT Joint Entrance Examination, stalling for now Human Resource Development Minister Kapil Sibal's suggestion for a single aptitude test replacing multiple examinations for admissions into undergraduate schools across the country. The plan aims to reduce the influence of coaching classes and at reducing the number of entrance tests students need to take. Unable to arrive at a consensus over examination reforms, the IIT Council — the highest decision-making body of the institutes — set up a panel to evolve a reform blueprint acceptable to both the institutes and the government. A panel set up by the HRD Ministry had suggested in addition to the aptitude test, institutions like the IITs be allowed to conduct their own add-on test. The ministry is unwilling to accept the add-on test. The council chaired by Sibal also accepted a proposal — first reported by HT on September 2 — allowing foreign faculty to teach at the IITs holding permanent posts. The IITs can also create extra seats for foreign students in postgraduate courses up to 25 per cent of their student strength. The HRD Ministry had earlier sought to amend the Institu-tes of Technology Act to allow IITs to teach medicine and inter-disciplinary programmes involving medicine. But the health and law ministries had opposed it. On Friday, the council once again proposed the Act be amended to incorporate medicine as a stream at the IITs. http://www.hindustantimes.com/IIT-directors-Sibal-spar-over-entrance-exam/Article1-598553.aspx ================================== His intentions seem to be honorable but methods foolhardy.

[DomainK]

His intentions seem to be honorable but methods foolhardy.

Fully agree, Clarke. The man's an idiot. There are several drawbacks in his plan and the students will suffer badly.

[kabira]

what is the wrong with the method. 12th Standard Test can also become practical like IIT entrance. And they can have 20-80 weightage. Just have to work out the practical plan

[seedhi]

Pray tell me, how are you going to take into account the enormous variations in marking among various state boards. In many state boards, getting 90% is a super achievement while in CBSE in the south its fairly common. Frankly, I can only thank my luck that I got into IIT before ministerial interference really started. If my Board exam results were used for admission, I probably would not have gotten into even a tier 2 college, while I was ranked amongst top 100 in JEE. Also, giving weightage to school results will help the elites who have access to excellent schools like DPS etc. JEE is much more egalitarian in that it does not matter that much if are in a great school where admissions are frequently based on money power. I also fail to understand this obsession of HRD ministers with the IIT, AIIMS, IIMs which are actually working fine. On the other hand there are serious issues in primary and secondary schooling system in rural areas, in private colleges giving substandard education but instead of concentrating on the basic issues our ministers are more interested in screwing with organizations that are working.

[punjabi_khota]

These guys are obsessed with mingling with the IIT system. I hope the IIT directors reject this system.

[Sir john]

sibal think too much.

[DomainK]

Pray tell me, how are you going to take into account the enormous variations in marking among various state boards. In many state boards, getting 90% is a super achievement while in CBSE in the south its fairly common. Frankly, I can only thank my luck that I got into IIT before ministerial interference really started. If my Board exam results were used for admission, I probably would not have gotten into even a tier 2 college, while I was ranked amongst top 100 in JEE. Also, giving weightage to school results will help the elites who have access to excellent schools like DPS etc. JEE is much more egalitarian in that it does not matter that much if are in a great school where admissions are frequently based on money power. I also fail to understand this obsession of HRD ministers with the IIT, AIIMS, IIMs which are actually working fine. On the other hand there are serious issues in primary and secondary schooling system in rural areas, in private colleges giving substandard education but instead of concentrating on the basic issues our ministers are more interested in screwing with organizations that are working.

Good points. Besides, you cant put everything into one exam. One viral infection, a bad cold, a headache, a bad day, a death in the family and one full year wasted. Imagine the amount of pressure the student will go through preparing for everything. We already have one student suicide every hour in India that will rise to double.

[Ram]

Playing Devil's advocate for the sake of it, selecting students for the top Engineering institutions in the country based on how well they do in a single 3 hour exam (?) is also not the perfect system. There are guys who are pretty intelligent, but succumb to the intense pressure of the situation and dont do as well. If you see, many IIT-ians take 2, even 3 attempts to clear the IIT-JEE, proving that they're good enough to get into the system, but just couldnt manage it the first time. That said, standardizing the marks of different state boards with CBSE is going to be almost impossible. The current IIT-JEE is not the perfect system, but its the best of what we have. We shouldnt tinker with it.

[punjabi_khota]

Playing Devil's advocate for the sake of it' date=' selecting students for the top Engineering institutions in the country based on how well they do in a single 3 hour exam (?) is also not the perfect system. There are guys who are pretty intelligent, but succumb to the intense pressure of the situation and dont do as well. If you see, many IIT-ians take 2, [b']even 3 attempts to clear the IIT-JEE, proving that they're good enough to get into the system, but just couldnt manage it the first time. That said, standardizing the marks of different state boards with CBSE is going to be almost impossible. The current IIT-JEE is not the perfect system, but its the best of what we have. We shouldnt tinker with it.

As of 2006, maximum attempts allowed are 2, and one of them has to be the year the person sits for 12th boards. There were people who attempted it 5 times and finally got in, and in no way can they claim to be as good as the ones who did it on the first attempt.

[DomainK]

As of 2006' date=' maximum attempts allowed are 2, [b']and one of them has to be the year the person sits for 12th boards. There were people who attempted it 5 times and finally got in, and in no way can they claim to be as good as the ones who did it on the first attempt.

You mean if someone want to get into the IITs a little late, say after graduation, he is not allowed?

[Guest Shivani]

IIT JEEs are 4hrs long :heat:

[The Outsider]

These guys are obsessed with mingling with the IIT system. I hope the IIT directors reject this system.

Actually, I met a director from IIT Bombay a couple of years back who expressed frustration at the inadequacies of JEE. I think this is a very good move. When you are in class 12 you should be studying class 12 stuff. The level of questions in JEE are such that the same stuff is basically taught in the first year of engineering school at IIT or other institutes. Can anything be more asinine than that - quizzing students on material that you will be teaching them next year? An aptitude test like GRE is a much better gauge of a student's ability. The entrance system is progressing towards a more American college entrance system with a lot of emphasis on the performance in what you are studying, aptitude test etc. Regarding standardization amongst different boards, it's very simple and a long time back BITS used to take admissions based on class 12 marks only. Basically the topper of the board gets assigned 100% marks and the marks of everyone else are simply scaled based on that.

[seedhi]

Actually, I met a director from IIT Bombay a couple of years back who expressed frustration at the inadequacies of JEE. I think this is a very good move. When you are in class 12 you should be studying class 12 stuff. The level of questions in JEE are such that the same stuff is basically taught in the first year of engineering school at IIT or other institutes. Can anything be more asinine than that - quizzing students on material that you will be teaching them next year? An aptitude test like GRE is a much better gauge of a student's ability. The entrance system is progressing towards a more American college entrance system with a lot of emphasis on the performance in what you are studying, aptitude test etc. Regarding standardization amongst different boards, it's very simple and a long time back BITS used to take admissions based on class 12 marks only. Basically the topper of the board gets assigned 100% marks and the marks of everyone else are simply scaled based on that.

And BITS Pilani abandoned that system since it was observed that there were a disproportionate number of students from the southern states where the CBSE scores are higher. By the way, JEE is not based on what is taught in first year of IIT. Basing admissions on school performance will be a death knell for a lot of talented but not so well off students who do not have access to excellent schools but can just about afford to concentrate their resources on studying physics, chemistry, math well enough for JEE. It is much easier for a struggling migrant student living alone in Delhi to get into a decent JEE coaching center rather than get into DPS type school. The larger question still remains - why mess with a system that is working well, instead of concentrating on primary and secondary schooling which is not even close to where it should be.

[Zap_Brannigan]

Both systems has its flaws. In Tamil nadu, the state board is a joke. Questions test your memory more than your aptitude and problem solving skills. On an average a CBSE student who gets 80 with an average IQ can get upward of 90 if he just memories the text.Lots of people move to state board schools from CBSE after the 10 std. for precisely this. IIT JEE requires one to join tuition house that is specialized in JEE tuition. In my class in 11th std., there were just 2 students that didn't take these classes.One was preparing for SAT and the other took correspondence classes for IIT. Often this is very elite that lower middle class students cannot afford. Although JEE is much harder, it levels the playing field as all students are held to the same standards. I think it would be much better if JEE doesnt take school grades into account but the difficulty is lowered such that tuition classes are not required.

[punjabi_khota]

JEE is not based on first year curriculum AT ALL. It is based on 11th and 12th board syllabus, just the questions are more probing than the usual CBSE "ratta" crap, where drawing the picture of a big ass chemistry apparatus can apparently give you 10 marks. :rotfl: The point is, not everyone needs to prepare for JEE. Although everyone and their third cousin sit for JEE, 80% of the people already know they got no chance of getting in, so they can concentrate on acing the board exams, which in my humble opinion, is very doable by anyone with IQ>100

[nballa]

Playing Devil's advocate for the sake of it' date='[b'] selecting students for the top Engineering institutions in the country based on how well they do in a single 3 hour exam (?) is also not the perfect system. There are guys who are pretty intelligent, but succumb to the intense pressure of the situation and dont do as well. If you see, many IIT-ians take 2, even 3 attempts to clear the IIT-JEE, proving that they're good enough to get into the system, but just couldnt manage it the first time. That said, standardizing the marks of different state boards with CBSE is going to be almost impossible. The current IIT-JEE is not the perfect system, but its the best of what we have. We shouldnt tinker with it.

tell me about it. give me the itt paper and 72 hours and a computer and i can solve all the problems. its all about mastering the basics, the concepts, the base pad, the foundations, the core and just focus.

[yoda]

I am with seedhi, it ain't broken, so why fix it? You get the best (for most part) attending the best engineering colleges, just stick to it and fix the other problems. Yes you do miss out some great students due to various factors, but that will always be the case. The purpose of JEE is to get the best of the best, which it does reasonably well IMO. Yes it needs enormous prep, and is very very unfair to those who don't have access to the right coaching, so my proposal is for the IITs themselves to offer free material for JEE preparation including may be an online prep course which anyone can take (may be this is already available, I don't know).