Commonwealth Games may be called off : NZ official

[Texy]

Ok, I have heard a lot of bollocks on this thread particularly from texmex, khana_pakhaya etc. All of you guys who are sitting nicely outside India and preaching to the galleries, I have a question for you: Can you honestly confirm right now that you have never bribed or acted with impropriety in relation to any rule of law in India? If you can say yes, please go ahead and continue to preach. My point being, each one of us have to follow our responsibility first before calling for public execution et al of politicians. The government is just a reflection of the nature of the people. We are corrupt. Simple.

dude corruption is obvious in developing nations...that's a given and everyone expects that...but a corruption in such grand scheme is unheard of ...it's as if these guys are throwing an open challenge to everyone Even if one accepts the corruption as part and parcel of any bureaucratic endeavor in a country like India...one would expect superior quality product as contractors, builders, engineers, management should not compromise on that even after cheating public of undisclosed amount of funding..... CWG is the worst possible scenario one could think of or made example out of...this is purely criminal

[Guest Gunner]

please tell me which part of my post was 'bollocks'.

tip of the iceberg... they need to cancel the games ASAP. i wouldn't want to wake up in the morning and read some unfortunate news of some athlete getting killed by a roof or a wall falling on his head. we all know thats quite likely. i want to slap the **** out of that *** lalit bhanot. i guess paan stained walls and sinks are your standard of cleanliness, you corrupt piece of ****? attitudes like his are common in the crap factory that is india. this games has turned out be a complete shambles because of people like him. same goes for all the other shitfaced administrators that keep calling the collapse of the a bridge, false ceiling, and god knows what else, a 'minor' problem. in a perverse kind of way, i'm glad all this is happening. i am sure the aam aadmi living in india experiences much worse. i'm sure people amongst us, your family members and friends, have tried buying property in india and felt disappointed by the pathetic standard of construction and delays. its no surprise. but now its all coming out in the open and the world gets to see what a ****ing joke india is, and the kind of corruption and greed that thrives here. everyone in delhi should just boycott the games. dont go to a single event, just ignore it altogether. dont let the politicians and other haramkhors screw you again. well, they already did, when they used your tax money to stage the most pathetic games in the history of man kind.

Basically, you took an administrative goofup example and generalised that kind of lax attitude as the work ethics of the entire population. That is simply not the case. If on the other hand you had focussed only on the corruption angle, I would have agreed.

[yoda]

My point being, each one of us have to follow our responsibility first before calling for public execution et al of politicians. The government is just a reflection of the nature of the people. We are corrupt. Simple.

Hmmm, not exactly. We all have our responsibilities. Govt's responsibility is to provide service without being corrupt. Our responsibility is to our own jobs (whatever it is) without being corrupt. Now if you need a govt service (like land registration) and you can't get it done without giving bribes, what are you supposed to do? Fight them? Easier said than done. Just because everyone is willing to give bribes, the blame can't be attributed equally to all.

[Guest Gunner]

dude corruption is obvious in developing nations...that's a given and everyone expects that...but a corruption in such grand scheme is unheard of ...it's as if these guys are throwing an open challenge to everyone Even if one accepts the corruption as part and parcel of any bureaucratic endeavor in a country like India...one would expect superior quality product as contractors, builders, engineers, management should not compromise on that even after cheating public of undisclosed amount of funding..... CWG is the worst possible scenario one could think of or made example out of...this is purely criminal

Sorry you are still missing the point. If on a day to day basis the common man panders to corruption and cutting corners it becomes institutionalized and that has been going on in India now for a very long time. I am not saying that "there is some leeway for corruption in developing countries", hell no!

[Gunner_Mania]

attitudes like his are common in the crap factory that is india. .

about 15 years. .

You came out of the crap factory.so you must be crap too.

Can somebody point me to my false sense of patriotic pride? All I deduced from your post was that somebody who spent 15 years in a crap factory must be crap too.:dontknow:

[Clarke]

Stop the top to bottom bashing guys, the whole of India isn't the scum of the universe. Do u think the same would have happened if men like Sreedharan were in place of the current bunch of Kalmadis ? We were fully capable of hosting the CWG, unfortunately some clowns messed up big time and continue to do so. If RIL or L&T was running this, they would have done this in less than half the time and much lesser cost; last time i checked, they are not run by foreigners.

[Guest Gunner]

Hmmm' date=' not exactly. We all have our responsibilities. Govt's responsibility is to provide service without being corrupt. Our responsibility is to our own jobs (whatever it is) without being corrupt. [b']Now if you need a govt service (like land registration) and you can't get it done without giving bribes, what are you supposed to do? Fight them? Easier said than done. Just because everyone is willing to give bribes, the blame can't be attributed equally to all.

With this attitude how do you expect improvement? We have to make a stand somewhere. Its like a retreating army in the face of an onslaught, where will you make your last stand my friend?

[Gunner_Mania]

Its easy to paint the whole country with the same tar due to some corrupt individuals. For all its flaws India is more than capable of hosting a CWG or even Olympic games for that matter. A few rotten apples do not make a country rotten. The Games management was handed to the wrong people and there fore we are in this mess, as Clarke says, may be if the right people had been involved we would have seen the right results too.

[yoda]

With this attitude how do you expect improvement? We have to make a stand somewhere. Its like a retreating army in the face of an onslaught' date=' where will you make your last stand my friend?[/quote'] Dude, be practical. It is like saying if someone is about to kill you if you don't hand over your wallet how exactly are you going to fight crime? Everyone has a responsibility including fighting corruption like the Income tax dept, if they themselves are corrupt what is the common man expected to do? No answers is the answer. Also, like some have said here, this level of mismanagement is an all time low even for our system. We have hosted the cricket world cup before, Asiad in 80s, none of them have seen this level of a fiasco. So yes, this is an all time low.

[Guest Gunner]

Dude' date=' be practical. It is like saying if someone is about to kill you if you don't hand over your wallet how exactly are you going to fight crime?[/quote'] This analogy is unfair. Threat of bodily harm is not the same as when you satisfy someone's corrupt needs for your personal benefit.

Also' date=' like some have said here, this level of mismanagement is an all time low even for our system. We have hosted the cricket world cup before, Asiad in 80s, none of them have seen this level of a fiasco. So yes, this is an all time low.[/quote'] So how are we developing if our management skills have declined in the last 28 years?

[seedhi]

I dont understand why is the middle class being blamed for the singular failures of the Central and Delhi govts? India is the same country that has organized two cricket world cups and two Asiads at a time when we were a lesser economic power. This is simply a failure of the leadership and management. The PM has stepped at the last minute even though the gaping deficiencies in preparation were pointed out months and months ago. The common man in Delhi has had to live with the city turned upside down just so that the games are a success. What a let down it has been .. this could have been such a great experience for the people, especially the children and they have been betrayed. I feel for the thousands of kids who have volunteered to make this event a success only to see scorn being heaped in the world media. The blame squarely lies on the govt-contractor-bureaucrat nexus and the lackadaisical attitude of the topmost leadership. Please stop blaming the common man for the ills of the leadership.

[Guest Gunner]

Its easy to paint the whole country with the same tar due to some corrupt individuals. For all its flaws India is more than capable of hosting a CWG or even Olympic games for that matter. A few rotten apples do not make a country rotten. The Games management was handed to the wrong people and there fore we are in this mess' date=' as Clarke says, may be if the right people had been involved we would have seen the right results too.[/quote'] GM, all I am saying is that we have all contributed to corruption in some minor way or another to the point that we don't even feel its wrong anymore. The corruption has become institutionalized. How many of you managed to get a DL in India without a rupee of bribe? I know that I didn't.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

Can somebody point me to my false sense of patriotic pride? All I deduced from your post was that somebody who spent 15 years in a crap factory must be crap too.:dontknow:

No India is not a crap factory, we have our share of shortcomings, more than most countries, but still I take issue on you calling my country a crap factory. thankfully, i have lived abroad long enough to recognise the reality of the situation in india. sure, i'm harsh, and i am not glossing over anything, because that's how things are and thats what the situation of the country is. india has become richer but people still have a third world mentality. u are still living with your india shining dream...have fun with that and enjoy watching the commonwealth games...:giggle:

[Guest Gunner]

I dont understand why is the middle class being blamed for the singular failures of the Central and Delhi govts? Please stop blaming the common man for the ills of the leadership.

Do you vote? Do you say no to basic corruption? And yet you come here and cry about how the common man should not be blamed. You are educated and know better than your uneducated brethren and yet you have contributed to this malaise. Then who should be blamed for this woeful state if not you? (I don't mean "you" literally).

[Desi Cartman]

I may not call India a crap factory but the work done for CWG by pvt or public sector is nothing but a load of crap. Have u seen the amount of money spent. do you think only sarkari babus made millions of dollars ? From top to bottom , public to pvt .. everybody made a killing. I probably wouldnt have believed that its all corrupt but after seeing the collapsed bridge, I dont know what else to believe. As for people saying " Pehla pathar woh maray jo paapi na ho " .. What option does one have in India if you get stopped by a traffic policeman. FFS if the cops see a young couple they dont even spare them. from bofors to coffins its all on sale. Imagine its 1997 and please tell me if you have a job offer or need to travel overseas for business, you go to the passport office and see a queue 500m long. What will you do ? Now in 2010 you have more options and better facilities when it comes to the passport office and now you wont see anybody trying to bribe a babu. Now who fixed this , people or the sarkar ? At the end of the days its Govt's job to run the country. IMO problem is that political parties know that elections are decided by poor people, farmers and people living in smaller towns. Even if CWG gets cancelled, at the max Sheila dixit might lose the next elections but I dont see Congress losing many votes.

[The Outsider]

Anyone who has lived in India and interacted with the government on some level, would know that it is impossible to avoid corruption. I can confidently say that there would not be anyone who has not bribed or used influence to get things done. My personal take is that I would pay a bribe or use influence to get something done, which should be done in the normal course of things. But I won't use unfair means to get anything done which is illegal.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

I dont understand why is the middle class being blamed for the singular failures of the Central and Delhi govts? India is the same country that has organized two cricket world cups and two Asiads at a time when we were a lesser economic power. This is simply a failure of the leadership and management. The PM has stepped at the last minute even though the gaping deficiencies in preparation were pointed out months and months ago. The common man in Delhi has had to live with the city turned upside down just so that the games are a success. What a let down it has been .. this could have been such a great experience for the people, especially the children and they have been betrayed. I feel for the thousands of kids who have volunteered to make this event a success only to see scorn being heaped in the world media. The blame squarely lies on the govt-contractor-bureaucrat nexus and the lackadaisical attitude of the topmost leadership. Please stop blaming the common man for the ills of the leadership.

corrupt politicians are put in their positions of authority by the common man on the back of a few nice promises and hyperbole. they are put in their positions by a media that is opportunistic and unwilling to call a spade a spade until it's convenient to do so. the media is noticing all this NOW. its funny how nobody said a word when construction began a full 5 years after india won the right to host the games. where were all the investigative reports by NDTV back in 2008 when the games village is just a big load of rubble. where the concerns about monsoon rains (which happen every single year) flooding the area next to the village. why didnt anyone bother to look at where the money from the funding was going. so believe it or not, the blame just doesn't extend to the corrupt haramkhors. an indifferent public doesn't help things, which is funny, because their taxes paid for all this. its funny how indians tend to ignore all the flaws in their country al the time, but only take notice when the foreigners do.

[Gunner_Mania]

GM' date=' all I am saying is that we have all contributed to corruption in some minor way or another to the point that we don't even feel its wrong anymore. The corruption has become institutionalized. How many of you managed to get a DL in India without a rupee of bribe? I know that I didn't.[/quote'] I am not denying that. I was just miffed at M_P's potrayal of India as a crap country when clearly we have time and again proved that we have the wherewithall to host such mega events. Yes corruption has become institutionalized in our country and we have contributed to that in some way or the other, but this is way beyond institutionalized corruption. This is a few people taking the whole country for ride because they believe nothing will happen to them and nobody cares.

[Guest Gunner]

I may not call India a crap factory but the work done for CWG by pvt or public sector is nothing but a load of crap. Have u seen the amount of money spent. do you think only sarkari babus made millions of dollars ? From top to bottom , public to pvt .. everybody made a killing. I probably wouldnt have believed that its all corrupt but after seeing the collapsed bridge, I dont know what else to believe. As for people saying " Pehla pathar woh maray jo paapi na ho " .. What option does one have in India if you get stopped by a traffic policeman. FFS if the cops see a young couple they dont even spare them. from bofors to coffins its all on sale. Imagine its 1997 and please tell me if you have a job offer or need to travel overseas for business, you go to the passport office and see a queue 500m long. What will you do ? Now in 2010 you have more options and better facilities when it comes to the passport office and now you wont see anybody trying to bribe a babu. Now who fixed this , people of the sarkar ? At the end of the days its Govt's job to run the country. IMO problem is that political parties know that elections are decided by poor people, farmers and people living in smaller towns. Even if CWG gets cancelled, at the max Sheila dixit might lose the next elections but I dont see Congress losing many votes.

I am most certainly not saying that its easy to deal with this. I have several anecdotal experiences of this reality. All I am saying is that its time to make a stand, if we dont start saying no now and take these bastards to the media and a fast track court, it will never end.

Anyone who has lived in India and interacted with the government on some level' date=' would know that it is impossible to avoid corruption. I can confidently say that there would not be anyone who has not bribed or used influence to get things done.[/quote'] Totally agree that its true.

My personal take is that I would pay a bribe or use influence to get something done' date=' which should be done in the normal course of things. But I won't use unfair means to get anything done which is illegal.[/quote'] Per dada as an educated person if you do this how will this cycle ever end. In order for the cycle to break it has to end somewhere. Atleast the young and educated people have to start saying no.

[ludhianvi]

Is India corrupt and all this bribes(ghoos) is the norm? You would be living in a fool's paradise if you say no. The problematic and the most worrying part is that all of this has become the norm. I suppose whatever they show in the movies is true at some level i.e Khatta Meetha. India seems to be like a checkered chess board : the good littered with the bad. On one hand you see Ambani in Mumbai, but you also see that 60% of the population lives in the slums. Then on one hand you see top IT companies like Infosys, and only a few blocks again you see the slums. It all depends on your perspective of progress. To really see the difference, one needs no further than how the construction workers are treated in the west and in India. Anyhow, this is not taking a potshot at India.. just trying to see it from a different angle. Things are improving I suppose or atleast one hopes that they are. But it is also not that easy given the size and diverse nature of a country that is India.