India's spinners fail to produce any magic

[Sir john]

india in trouble

[ensd2]

yuvraj and Sehwag are our best spinner

[Sir john]

india will struggle in future as our bowling suggest.

[King Tendulkar]

Another wrist cutting thread:haha: One freaking match and vultures are everywere. Our spinners looked ok when we battered the aussies.

[The Realist]

Murali Kartik should have been given some chances by now. Quality bowler who proves it year-in year-out in county cricket on pitches which are not spin-friendly. However its obvious his face does not fit and he has no friends in the ruling clique so will never get a game.

[achilles]

Murali Kartik should have been given some chances by now. Quality bowler who proves it year-in year-out in county cricket on pitches which are not spin-friendly. However its obvious his face does not fit and he has no friends in the ruling clique so will never get a game.

Yes. Its quite sick that some players form their own clique and the Uthappa's and Karthik's sit out. If M.Gony got into the Indian team after only the first IPL, we can easily gauge the shameless politics a few people play.

[canadianIndian]

Time to drop Bhajji and bring in R Ashwin. Although Bhajji scored runs for India, his main role in the team is to take wickets. He has lost his mojo for like 6 yrs now and doesn't looks like its coming back anytime soon!

[pensionplan]

Time to drop Bhajji and bring in R Ashwin. Although Bhajji scored runs for India' date=' his main role in the team is to take wickets. He has lost his [i']mojo for like 6 yrs now and doesn't looks like its coming back anytime soon!

Once HS is dropped if and when that happens he should never be selected again unless he proves his worth and take a ton of wickets for an entire FC season or so. ODI's and 20-20 should no way be the means to select a dropped player from Test cricket generally speaking. That is the key.

[Lord]

Another wrist cutting thread:haha: One freaking match and vultures are everywere. Our spinners looked ok when we battered the aussies.

one match,Bhajji has been averaging 46 this year n Ojha 44.thats not good especially since they havent played outside subcontinent

[Ram]

Fans should realize that its really tough for spinners in Indian conditions these days. The pitches are getting slower and flatter by the day and its becoming increasingly easy for opposition batsmen to negotiate our guys. People seem to be perfectly comfortable with the fact that opposition spinners can struggle to have any impact whatsoever, but our spinners alone should take wickets by the bucketful? How unfair is that? Of course, you can say that the ability of our batsmen to play spin far outweighs that of batsmen of any other country, but still, the underlying factors remain the same. What would be a big crisis is if we had guys like Hauritz, Vettori taking one 5 wicket haul after another and then our spinners struggling to have any impact. That is clearly not the case. Unfortunately, we’re still high on the heavy dose of spin-drug that Anil Kumble intoxicated us with. Most of us are so used to seeing our spinners simply run riot that every time we see an Indian spinner with a ball in his hand, we expect the same to happen. Unfortunately, times have moved on, but we havent. Besides, if you look at Anil Kumble’s last few test series in India, he actually struggled to make any big impact at all. If that was the fate of India’s bestest ever spinner, then what chances do guys like Ojha and Mishra have?

[Ranjha]

I personally do not believe that there is a better spinner in India than Bhajji atm. However, a temporary drop treatment if his bowling doesnt improve by the end of sa series max will be needed.

[Ranjha]

Also, Indian picthes are not the same as in 90s so you cannot expect 5fers in India very often.

[Lord]

Fans should realize that its really tough for spinners in Indian conditions these days. The pitches are getting slower and flatter by the day and its becoming increasingly easy for opposition batsmen to negotiate our guys. People seem to be perfectly comfortable with the fact that opposition spinners can struggle to have any impact whatsoever, but our spinners alone should take wickets by the bucketful? How unfair is that? Of course, you can say that the ability of our batsmen to play spin far outweighs that of batsmen of any other country, but still, the underlying factors remain the same. What would be a big crisis is if we had guys like Hauritz, Vettori taking one 5 wicket haul after another and then our spinners struggling to have any impact. That is clearly not the case. Unfortunately, we’re still high on the heavy dose of spin-drug that Anil Kumble intoxicated us with. Most of us are so used to seeing our spinners simply run riot that every time we see an Indian spinner with a ball in his hand, we expect the same to happen. Unfortunately, times have moved on, but we havent. Besides, if you look at Anil Kumble’s last few test series in India, he actually struggled to make any big impact at all. If that was the fate of India’s bestest ever spinner, then what chances do guys like Ojha and Mishra have?

opposition(certainly top ones like Eng,Aus,Saf) usually play 3 seamer against us even in India,should we try that then as there isnt any 'help' for spinners?

[Ram]

opposition(certainly top ones like Eng' date='Aus,Saf) usually play 3 seamer against us even in India,should we try that then as there isnt any 'help' for spinners?[/quote'] They play 3 seamers not because they want, but because they have to. Most teams simply don’t have a roster of spinners who are good enough to fill 2 spots in their team. Even in the previous match, if you were listening to the Kiwi commentators, most of them seem opposed to the selection Jeetan Patel not because they though the pitch assisted seam bowling, but because, in their opinion, Jeetan was simply not good enough. Plus, it would be a recipe for disaster to pick 3 seamers in Indian conditions no matter what. Even in this match, how many wickets did our seamers take? If there’s no reverse swing (which there wasn’t in this match), then the effectiveness of our pacers is effectively cut by half and having 3 seamers in that scenario would be like inviting opposition batsmen to a sumptuous meal in an Indian marriage. Plus, you go check out the stats in the previous 10 home test series and tell us all how well, in your opinion, the spinners and seamer have shared the spoils. Unfortunately, we’re in this vicious cycle where our spinners don’t win a match for us and everybody is out to get them. Next match, they do well, everyone’s silenced. Then, they falter again and all the rancor is back. Its déjà-vu all over again!

[Ram]

In the two years prior to retirement, Anil Kumble averaged 40 in tests at home, as opposed to his overall bowling average of 24 in tests in India. That’s how difficult it has been for spinners in Indian conditions recently. Of all people, if Anil Kumble couldn’t average less than 40 in tests in India, how can anyone else possibly better that? Plus, the first tendency for any of us when we try to nitpick someone’s performance is to go have a look at their numbers. The bowling average of our bowlers looks so inflated because one in two/three tests in India are high scoring draws. That skews the numbers to the point where the good performance of our bowlers in the matches that we won gets completely lost. This is bit like Pakistani fans trying to belittle Zak’s performances.. ‘Oh look at his numbers.. he averages 34 in tests.. Our man, druggie Asif, averages 22.. Beat that… !’ What those numbnuts don’t realize is that if you let the druggie play half of his tests in India, then his bowling average will soon rival Mohammmed Sami’s. We shouldn’t get too fixated over numbers? Are we winning series? Yes. Are we winning at both home and abroad? Yes. Are we losing at all? No (two losses in the last 24 tests..) These are the vital stats, not the ones you can pull out for individual players from statsguru.

[Ranjha]

In the two years prior to retirement' date= Anil Kumble averaged 40 in tests at home, as opposed to his overall bowling average of 24 in tests in India. That’s how difficult it has been for spinners in Indian conditions recently. Of all people, if Anil Kumble couldn’t average less than 40 in tests in India, how can anyone else possibly better that? Plus, the first tendency for any of us when we try to nitpick someone’s performance is to go have a look at their numbers. The bowling average of our bowlers looks so inflated because one in two/three tests in India are high scoring draws. That skews the numbers to the point where the good performance of our bowlers in the matches that we won gets completely lost. This is bit like Pakistani fans trying to belittle Zak’s performances.. ‘Oh look at his numbers.. he averages 34 in tests.. Our man, druggie Asif, averages 22.. Beat that… !’ What those numbnuts don’t realize is that if you let the druggie play half of his tests in India, then his bowling average will soon rival Mohammmed Sami’s. We shouldn’t get too fixated over numbers? Are we winning series? Yes. Are we winning at both home and abroad? Yes. Are we losing at all? No (two losses in the last 24 tests..) These are the vital stats, not the ones you can pull out for individual players from statsguru.

Thanks for the stats. Definately the pitches have changed in India. Its there for anyone to see.

[Ram]

Thanks for the stats. Definately the pitches have changed in India. Its there for anyone to see.

It actually gets even better. In the two years prior to his retirement, Anil Kumble’s bowling average outside India was actually significantly better than his average in India; 33 versus 40. Now, how many people would have expected that? Either we can all reconcile to the reality that our spinners are no longer capable of running through opposition batsmen like they used, or we can keep grumbling and mumbling every single time opposition batsmen play our spinners well.

[Lord]

They play 3 seamers not because they want' date=' but because they have to. Most teams simply don’t have a roster of spinners who are good enough to fill 2 spots in their team. Even in the previous match, if you were listening to the Kiwi commentators, most of them seem opposed to the selection Jeetan Patel not because they though the pitch assisted seam bowling, but because, in their opinion, Jeetan was simply not good enough.[/quote'] so the pitch didnt assist seamer,nor spinners.so how did NZ get 20 wickets a much vaunted batting line-up. Jeetan will probably be dropped for next test,n he outbowled Bhajji,shows how bad Bhajji bowled

Plus, it would be a recipe for disaster to pick 3 seamers in Indian conditions no matter what. Even in this match, how many wickets did our seamers take? If there’s no reverse swing (which there wasn’t in this match), then the effectiveness of our pacers is effectively cut by half and having 3 seamers in that scenario would be like inviting opposition batsmen to a sumptuous meal in an Indian marriage.

thats the case with our spinners too if there isnt any spin n bounce,so whats the difference

Plus, you go check out the stats in the previous 10 home test series and tell us all how well, in your opinion, the spinners and seamer have shared the spoils.

let me tell wat stats do n not my opinion couldnt remember wen our 10 last series was,but from 1 Jan 2008,our seamers have collectively taken wickets @ 33.7.whereas spinners have done that @ 35.9.yes spinners have taken more wickets but thats because they've bowled 500 more overs

Unfortunately, we’re in this vicious cycle where our spinners don’t win a match for us and everybody is out to get them. Next match, they do well, everyone’s silenced. Then, they falter again and all the rancor is back. Its déjà-vu all over again!

stats dont lie.apart from Zak,everybody has been under par including Bhajji.its stupid to blame all on pitches n pretend our bowlers r champions

[Ram]

so the pitch didnt assist seamer' date='nor spinners.so how did NZ get 20 wickets a much vaunted batting line-up. [/quote'] Because we collapsed to a ridiculous 15-5 in the 2nd innings, that’s why! We didn’t bowled out because Kiwi bowling was particularly threatening. The mere fact that VVS and Bhajji played out nearly a full day on day 5, with no apparent difficulties should tell you how flat the pitch was and how benign the bowling was. Have you seen a 7th wicket partnership ever bat out an entire day 5 ever before?

Jeetan will probably be dropped for next test,n he outbowled Bhajji,shows how bad Bhajji bowled

No, you’re making the wrong inference. If Jeetan is dropped, it shows what NZ think gives them the best chance of winning. And btw, I’d absolutely welcome NZ to pick 3 seamers. I think it will backfire badly, especially if the ball does not reverse.

thats the case with our spinners too if there isnt any spin n bounce,so whats the difference

The difference is, even when there’s no real assistance from the pitch which is often the case in India, the spinners are waaaay more effective in keeping the runs down. Have you forgotten day 1 of the Mohali test already? Australia made a solid start and were coasting with the help of Watson and Ponting till the middle of the 2nd session. But it was the spinners who got us back into the game. I think Australia scored about 100 runs in the 2nd half of the day. We could have never kept them down to the score we did in the first innings, had we had just one specialist spinner.

stats dont lie.apart from Zak' date='everybody has been under par including Bhajji.its stupid to blame all on pitches n pretend our bowlers r champions[/quote'] You’re under-cutting the value of our bowlers significantly by denying them, especially spinners any credit whatsoever. You can blame them all you want, but the results are there for everyone to see.

[thevortex]

What is new in this? Our spinners have been below par for quite some time now. It is no secret that we are the No.1 team in no small part due to our batting pyrotechniques.