saneindian Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 WTF! Warning to vaibhav and andy' date=' stop this BS, if you think there is nothing else to discuss here other than this Bengali/Bihari crap, would be more than glad to [b']lock this thread. Please do so. Threads like these are a total disgrace for this wonderful forum.
Andy Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 WTF! Warning to vaibhav and andy' date=' stop this BS, if you think there is nothing else to discuss here other than this Bengali/Bihari crap, would be more than glad to lock this thread.[/quote'] I Seriously dont care much If Bongs are accused to be biased towards one player i dont mind stepping the Line and Calling other communities biased. You should have stopped it when it was started, rather than getting into the Scene Like Bolly Cops of the 90's. I say it again Cut down Regional Discrimination completely else get ready to some Posters Off this Forum (inclusive of Myself) . As Long as am around, i wont sit back and Watch.
yoda Posted January 5, 2011 Posted January 5, 2011 Voted for Dhoni. Ganguly was a good leader, but Dhoni is getting better results, and the teams they have aren't very different with almost the same set of bats and possibly worse bowling.
DomainK Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 I think the answer is clear now. MSD is one of the best captains in the history of the game.
Aaku Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 BEST EVER !!!!!! Miles ahead !!!!! :yay: Was always the best !!! :yay:
Vikas Bhatt Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 guys just look at Mahender singh dhoni, he already has a legacy with him. he has killed the best sides at their turf within 1-2 years of captaincy. he has created a team who every1 in the world will fear. while i accept ganguly was a successful captain but i don't think he can ever come close to what Dhoni has already achieved. people who talk about him being most successful captain should also know that he had lost most numbers of finals as an Indian captain. Dhoni is creating a dress room chemistry by skilled man-management but wat ganguly did was creating camps, he actually used shout at players, abuse them, Have anyone of you seen Dhoni doing this??? I know know it doesn't matter much now but ganguly ruined the career of Off-spinner Sunil Joshi. Ganguly has got just victories to his name but MSD has the victories along with EUPHORIA around the team. Under Ganguly team never threatened the No.1 position holders, now we are No.1. That where you are wrong. Dhoni will go down as the greatest captain in our history. It is already sealed now. But Dhoni did not become a successful captain overnight, nor did he build it out of thin air. The foundation of his team came from Ganguly/Dravid days. After the Ashes defeat at home in 1980s when Aus cricket was in doldrums, Allan Border started a process of team building. It had it's ups and downs but he built a team for the future and gave them a sense of confidence. He was followed by Mark Taylor who turned that same team into a World Champion side. Players like Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh, Shane Warne, Craig McDermott, Glenn McGrath etc were found or prospered during this time. Steve Waugh inherited a side that was world beating and took it's confidence to ruthless heights and this was carried on by Ponting till he lost all his great players overnight to retirements. Now that same Ponting couldn't win games against good teams even at home and this too was not overnight decline. The foundation for that decline was the 2 years of retirements and inability to replace such talents. In Indian context, we didn't achieve too much after the 1983 WC win. But the process started under Azharuddin. We found players like SRT, Kumble, Srinath, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Bhajji etc. and started beating worlds's best at home. We were unbeatable at home under him. That was step 1. It was under Ganguly the more serious transition happened. Like from Border to Taylor, we developed under Ganguly a team that could win abroad [our greatest weakness]. Suddenly we were not losing travelers ridiculed by opposition. No longer paper tigers successful only at home. We were capable of beating the best away too and we found a new respect. Under Dravid we started converting those off wins abroad into series wins. We started getting more ruthless in one day games. Players like Yuvraj, Raina, Zaheer, Sreesanth, Sehwag, Bhajji and Dhoni himself were found and/or developed during this time even as the Dravids, Laxmans, Gangulys, Kumble and SRT got better. Like Border, Ganguly also took us to a WC final in alien conditions and made us more respected. We lost to a world champion side who was on a ruthless roll unfortunately. And under Dhoni now we have finally turned the corner and become world beaters and champions. The same set of players at his disposal have not become such champions overnight. They have all come through the process and learnt from their mistakes and worked at their game and it all started since Ganguly gave them the confidence to do better abroad and not just in India, the belief to fight fire with fire and to compete with the best anywhere. Azharuddin won more titles than Ganguly in one dayers, 5 in 1998 alone, but can anyone say he was a better captain than him? Dhoni may have got the to build the highrise skyscrapper, but Ganguly laid the foundation to hold it and Dravid added the first 2 floors to build upon it. The current team would not have been possible without Ganguly and we would not be confident unit had we not won those tests in Aus, SA, WI, Zim, Eng, SL and Pak under him and Dravid. This team would not have been carrying that much self belief. If a captain could turn a side into a champion side overnight, Ponting would still be leading a number 1 team today and WI would not be such a joke side. :hatsoff:
Sachin=GOD Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 That where you are wrong. Dhoni will go down as the greatest captain in our history. It is already sealed now. But Dhoni did not become a successful captain overnight, nor did he build it out of thin air. The foundation of his team came from Ganguly/Dravid days. After the Ashes defeat at home in 1980s when Aus cricket was in doldrums, Allan Border started a process of team building. It had it's ups and downs but he built a team for the future and gave them a sense of confidence. he was followed by Mark Taylor who turned that same team into a World Champion side. Players like Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh, Shane Warne, Craig McDermott, Glenn McGrath etc were found or prospered during this time. Steve Waugh inherited a side that was world beating and took it's confidence to ruthless heights and this was carried on by Ponting till he lost all his great players overnight to retirements. Now that same Ponting couldn't win games against good teams even at home and this too was not overnight decline. The foundation for that decline was the 2 years of retirements and inability to replace such talents. In Indian context, we didn't achieve too much after the 1983 WC win. But the process started under Azharuddin. We found players like SRT, Kumble, Srinath, Dravid, Ganguly, Laxman, Bhajji etc. and started beating worlds's best at home. We were unbeatable at home under him. That was step 1. It was under Ganguly the more serious transition happened. Like from Border to Taylor, we developed under Ganguly a team that could win abroad [our greatest weakness]. Suddenly we were not losing travelers ridiculed by opposition. No longer paper tigers successful only at home. We were capable of beating the best away too and we found a new respect. Under Dravid we started converting those off wins abroad into series wins. We started getting more ruthless in one day games. Players like Yuvraj, Raina, Zaheer, Sreesanth, Sehwag, Bhajji and Dhoni himself were found and/or developed during this time even as the Dravids, Laxmans, Gangulys, Kumble and SRT got better. Like Border, ganguly also took us to a WC final in alien conditions and made us more respected. We lost to a world champion side who was on a ruthless roll unfortunately. And under Dhoni now we have finally turned the corner and become world beaters and champions. The same set of players at his disposal have not become such champions overnight. They have all come through the process and learnt from their mistakes and worked at their game and it all started since Ganguly gave them the confidence to do better abroad and not just in India, the belief top fight fire with fire and to compete with the best anywhere. Azharuddin won more titles than Ganguly in one dayers, 5 in 1998 alone, but can anyone say he was a better captain than him? Dhoni may have got the build the highrise skyscrapper, but Ganguly laid the foundation to hold it and Dravid added the first 2 floors to build upon it. The current team would not have been possible without Ganguly and we would not be confident unit had we not won those tests in Aus, SA, WI, Zim, Eng, SL and Pak under him and Dravid. This team would not have been carrying that much self belief. If a captain could turn a side into a champion side overnight, Ponting would still be leading a number 1 team today and WI would not be such a joke side. :hatsoff: Top post :hatsoff:
Andy Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 He has the achivements on his Side so Yes. Would be interesting to see how good he is when he needs to build a team in the future.
Vikas Bhatt Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Voted for Dhoni. Ganguly was a good leader' date=' but Dhoni is getting better results, and the teams they have aren't very different with almost the same set of bats and possibly worse bowling.[/quote'] Dhoni is getting good results off the good hard work Ganguly put in. The way Steve Waugh benefited from Taylor's hard work and the way Ponting benefited from Steve Waugh's legacy. This whole comparison is most unfair and does great disservice to both Ganguly and his protege Dhoni. There is a reason that despite Ponting and Steve Waugh's better records and superior results, Mark Taylor is still regarded as the best captain among the 3. Because he did all the hard work of shaping a side from a scratch and left behind a great side that could only get better and tougher to beat ahead.
Vikas Bhatt Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 He has the achivements on his Side so Yes. Would be interesting to see how good he is when he needs to build a team in the future. Exactly my point. Dhoni got a side that was ready, tested and on the verge of greatness and he like Waugh Sr. and Ponting had an easy job in making it a bit ruthless. Currently with Aus, NZ, Zim, WI and Pak in complete down slide, the competition is not that good unlike Ganguly's time when most teams were in top form one way or another. Back then even Zimboks gave us a good fight, NZ was still unbeatable at home when we toured and despite Pak being a weaker side than their past masters we still went neck to neck against them and couldn't win more. England under Vaughan looked like the next number 1 and SA as usual still had the woods under us. WI still had Lara and an air of respect. Lankans with Jayasurya and Murali at peak were still a feared one day unit. Ganguly's side faced more tougher opponents than what those same teams look like now and went through fire most of the time. Dhoni's real test will begin once SRT, Dravid and Laxman retire when his test team will stand exposed and go through a rebuilding phase.
Andy Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Exactly my point. Dhoni got a side that was ready' date=' tested and on the verge of greatness and he like Waugh Sr. and Ponting had an easy job in making it a bit ruthless. His real test will begin once SRT, Dravid and Laxman retire when his test team will stand exposed and go through a rebuilding phase.[/quote'] True.
Sachin=GOD Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 As I said in another thread - Ganguly & Wright laid the foundation for the building of success built by Dhoni & Kirsten.
Shane Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 He not only is the Captain of the winning team, more importantly he won us the Final himself. That is what you call leading by example. I dont think Dhoni's achievements in the last 4 years can ever be surpassed. No.1 Test Team World Champions in ODI's Thank You MSD!
don_corleone840 Posted April 3, 2011 Author Posted April 3, 2011 i dont give damn to foundation.ganguly also had sachin , dravid ,kumble,laxman and srinath in side when he took over . dhoni won world cup for us and he is definetly greatest captain of india
Andy Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 i dont give damn to foundation.ganguly also had sachin , dravid ,kumble,laxman and srinath in side when he took over . dhoni won world cup for us and he is definetly greatest captain of india Arent you the One who claimed IPL is most Watched Tournament over WC? You might be right then.
flamy Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 Bloody Fools! :hehe: Yum Yes Dee! :yay::yay::yay: :icflove::icflove::icflove:
vaibhav_delhi Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 dhoni won world cup for us and he is definetly greatest captain of india Dhoni would have been the greatest captain of india even if we hadnt won the WC...
Vikas Bhatt Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 i dont give damn to foundation.ganguly also had sachin , dravid ,kumble,laxman and srinath in side when he took over . dhoni won world cup for us and he is definetly greatest captain of india Looks like you did not read my post carefully because right in my opening para I have said he will go down as the greatest captain in our history already. I find this poll of trying to put him over Ganguly ridiculous because it is most illogical and unwarranted. If winning the WC is the benchmark for you than why isn't Kapil Dev's side in there in the poll? Why? He won it in foreign soil when India was poorest playing abroad so shouldn't his achievement be more than Dhoni's win at home where his team's biggest strength was compared to Kapil's? Can you say with certainty that we would have won so well if this final were in SL in Colombo with their spinners coming hard at us? Winning a WC cannot be an indication to judge a captain without judging the conditions and circumstances of his situation. For example Ponting won 2 WCs without losing a single match and Waugh one before him. Taylor before Waugh lost the WC final in 1996. Yet a majority of the Aussies respect Taylor ahead of both Waugh and Ponting. They believe that the Aussie side led by Waugh and Ponting with Gilchrist, Hayden, Warne and McGrath was so complete and devastating that no captain was needed to lead them and that any idiot could lead the side. They credit Taylor highly for creating that side in the first place. They don't belittle his foundation work by putting Ponting on a higher pedestal then him, just because he has won 2 WCs more than anyone else. Dhoni had a ready team and didn't need to build upon it but you have to look at the conditions when Ganguly became captain. India was rocked by the matchfixing scandal that claimed Azharuddin, Mongia, Malik, Jadeja, Hansie Cronje among others. Indian cricket was at an all time low with public confidence in it's heroes shattered and at it's lowest. Sachin Tendulkar was completely shattered and disillusioned to quit captaincy on his own. The legend was was highly demoralized. The pressure led India to lose 5 consecutive tests under him against Aus away and at home against SA. Every game was suspect in public eyes as is the case with Pak now. Ganguly took over the crown of thorns when no one wanted it. He had to raise his players, team, faith of billions of us fans, of motivating Sachin among others and turn things around for India. He had the challenge of walking that difficult path, of pulling the Indian team from the quagmire and depths of suspicion to a WC finalist side that beat most teams away from home in a relatively short time. His was the only team that thrashed the champions Aus again and again when others were getting whitewashed by them regularly. Most importantly he had to restore public faith back in our team and also deliver results. No Indian team had won either a one day or a test series in Pak before. Ganguly achieved both in 2004. Dhoni did not have to start all over from such dire circumstances as captain. I don't mind acknowledging Dhoni's achievements and would like to enjoy his ride as captain as much as I enjoyed Azhar's, SRT, Ganguly, Kumble and Dravid's rides. But to underestimate the achievements of past masters like Ganguly over mere statistics which never present a true picture is deplorable. Such polls do a great disservice to Indian cricket and fans who should enjoy all the successes we see without condescending specific achievements. India may have got that WC winning confidence in Dhoni perhaps, but they got that confidence of winning it against a World Champion team under Kapil first, of dreaming for overseas respect, a rise from ashes, to dream and hope for making it to another WC final and getting into a final again under Ganguly. Lets not allow such petty arguments to spoil good memories and rubbish achievements under past captains in such a silly manner. Every generation has a captain and a team who represents the hopes of that age and era and here there can never be any comparison. The day fans start fighting over their own teams achievements led by different captains is the day our cricket loses. :hatsoff:
Guest Shivani Posted April 3, 2011 Posted April 3, 2011 MAHENDRA SINGH DHONI! Please change the Title to 'Who's the best captain in the world ?' kthx !
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