saneindian Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 The players that are our match winners today -> Sehwag, Yuvraj, Bhajji, Zak, and Dhoni himself are all players that Ganguly handpicked and fought the board over.If you think the board is unreasonable now, they were a menace back then. Run by a bunch of senile old men who egs as big as the himalays. Saying Dada handpicked these guys , I find that insulting to the hard work those guys had put in. They came to team India based on their credible performances in team India and then moved ahead due to their own hard work and talent. Having a supportive captain and an understanding coach obviously helped them develop and mature quickly. In the 3 seasons before he was picked for Team India in 2001, Sehwag had scored 979, 1008 and 757 runs, total 2700+ runs with 10 100s at an avg of around 60!! Zaheer in his debut season in 99-00 picked 42 wickets in the season and was the best pacer in the country around that time. Bhajji had taken 100+ wickets in domestic cricket before being picked for the team in that series vs Australia and was the best performing spinner in the country in those 2 seasons. IIRC Sarandeep Singh was picked ahead of him for a couple of series!! Yuvraj was picked for the team based on his u-19 performance. Dhoni came to the team after hitting 3-4 100s (including a couple vs Pakistan A) for India A in a tournament in Kenya. None of these guys was "hand picked" by Dada. Instead in those days we used to have a concept of Talent Resource Development Officials (TRDO) who used to watch each and every match and then pass on their feedback to the selectors. However what Dada did was to back these guys to the hilt once they were chosen, gave them confidence and identified the roles each of them was to play in the team.
Ranjha Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Dhoni is one lucky dude...he got great players to play for him in their prime form.
ZodiaC Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Also pitches were not this flat. Dravid was in supreme form. Actually most of the Indians in the current line up are at the wee end of their career. Kumble was a genuine match winner. That's Sterotyping. Nevertheless Zak has mastered the art of reverse swing which I doubt any other bowlers in the past used to do to this effect. Kumble was terrific at home but I'd pick an inform Zak anyday over Kumble in all conditions. And Sachin averages nearly as what dravid did back then. Not to forget the emergence of Gambhir, Sehwag etc.
don_corleone840 Posted December 31, 2010 Author Posted December 31, 2010 Dhoni is one lucky dude...he got great players to play for him in their prime form. like dravid? harbhajan?
Ranjha Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Dhoni is one lucky dude...he got great players to play for him in their prime form. like dravid? harbhajan? Harbhajan is still winning matches for u buddy...receny examples: against sa at home, mos last series, this durban test etc... Bhajji is a true match winner and a fighter.
vvvslaxman Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Dhoni assigned a role of mentoring to Zak. Do you really think Ganguly did something like that. He was a big egomaniac who had lot of backroom controversies. His head was saved by some out of the world performances like 281 by Laxman, 32 wickets in a series by Bhajji, Some outstanding knocks by Dravid (at one point he scored like 4 test centuries in a row), Some match winning spells by Kumble. He looked better because his predecessors sucked big time. His obsession with Parthiv patel cost INdia many games.
ZodiaC Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Dhoni assigned a role of mentoring to Zak. Do you really think Ganguly did something like that. He was a big egomaniac who had lot of backroom controversies. His head was saved by some out of the world performances like 281 by Laxman' date=' 32 wickets in a series by Bhajji, Some outstanding knocks by Dravid (at one point he scored like 4 test centuries in a row), Some match winning spells by Kumble. He looked better because his predecessors sucked big time. His obsession with Parthiv patel cost INdia many games.[/quote'] In that case what about Ishanth Sharma & Laxman saving match, Harbhajan & Laxman saving match almost twice, Once more Laxman saving in SA, Laxman in SL? And who was the better keeper than Papa at that stage? We were so desperate for a wicket keeper batsman that dravid had to take that role by himself. We didn't have much options in tests.
Ranjha Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 A captain is as good as his team....just like ponting is finding out.
vvvslaxman Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 In that case what about Ishanth Sharma & Laxman saving match, Harbhajan & Laxman saving match almost twice, Once more Laxman saving in SA, Laxman in SL? And who was the better keeper than Papa at that stage? We were so desperate for a wicket keeper batsman that dravid had to take that role by himself. We didn't have much options in tests. No. Dravid didn't take. Ganguly bluntly told him that only way he could find a place in the side was by acting as a keeper. He made lot of terrible decisions on the field which are conveniently overlooked. India could have done lot better with that team. This was 2003 Test and ODI ranking of INdia http://icc-cricket.yahoo.net/match_zone/test_ranking.php?year=2003
saneindian Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 In that case what about Ishanth Sharma & Laxman saving match, Harbhajan & Laxman saving match almost twice, Once more Laxman saving in SA, Laxman in SL? And who was the better keeper than Papa at that stage? We were so desperate for a wicket keeper batsman that dravid had to take that role by himself. We didn't have much options in tests. There was a certain Pankaj Dharmani piling on the runs and doing well as a keeper. Yet first Deep Das Gupta got picked , then Ajay Ratra was chosen and then came Papa.
nballa Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 dhobi - sorry about the typo - is not 1/10th the captain ganguly is. ganguly won with prasad/srinath arguably the worst opening pair in the history of world cricket, a tendulkar not in his prime form and a weak spineless team. dhobi - once again sorry - had more talent to work with and more matchwinners at his disposal.
vvvslaxman Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 In that case what about Ishanth Sharma & Laxman saving match, Harbhajan & Laxman saving match almost twice, Once more Laxman saving in SA, Laxman in SL? And who was the better keeper than Papa at that stage? We were so desperate for a wicket keeper batsman that dravid had to take that role by himself. We didn't have much options in tests. dhobi - sorry about the typo - is not 1/10th the captain ganguly is. ganguly won with prasad/srinath arguably the worst opening pair in the history of world cricket' date=' a tendulkar not in his prime form and a weak spineless team. dhobi - once again sorry - had more talent to work with and more matchwinners at his disposal.[/quote'] Srinath the worst? Dude...He took 13 wickets against Pakistan in a single test and blew South Africa away with 6 for 21 in no time at Ahmedabad.
Raghav_12 Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Srinath' date=' Kumble, Harbhajan, Zaheer were his main bowlers. So yea. he had a better bowling line up.[/quote'] Srinath did not play for majority of the time after Ganguly took over as he retired in 2002 and Zaheer was not the same Zaheer before 2006. In Ganguly's time there was no third seamer but situation is a bit better now on that account. We never had established opening pair in the time of Ganguly the way we do now. Sachin's trough also happened during Ganguly's time. Overall not fair to say that Ganguly had a better team or even equivalent team as Dhoni got. On the other hand Dhoni got a great team right from the onset. Team had already beaten Eng in Eng and had almost beaten Australia in Australia. I don't think India's stature would have been much different had we had some other as captain. I am not very sure but on the face of it looks like Dhoni "happened to be captain" when Indian team was on upside. It's difficult to make same statement for Ganguly.
ZodiaC Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Srinath the worst? Dude...He took 13 wickets against Pakistan in a single test and blew South Africa away with 6 for 21 in no time at Ahmedabad. I'm quite sure Srinath averaged 30+ (including zimbabwe) in his last years under ganguly. He was one of our best, but he was well past it by then (except sporadic perfomances here and there). Our pace lineup was pretty unsettled after Srinath retired, we had to try from Aggy, Nehra to Balaji in the team and still managed to get impressive results.
DomainK Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Well, it's wrong to say Ganguly handpicked the team and made it what it is. Dhoni'w abilities and skills can not be denied either. All I am saying is that there is no need to downplay ganguly's achievements at bad times because we have come to admire Dhoni's success as a captain.
ZodiaC Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 No. Dravid didn't take. Ganguly bluntly told him that only way he could find a place in the side was by acting as a keeper. He made lot of terrible decisions on the field which are conveniently overlooked. India could have done lot better with that team. This was 2003 Test and ODI ranking of INdia http://icc-cricket.yahoo.net/match_zone/test_ranking.php?year=2003 Eh? What are you trying to prove by posting the rankings? Would've been even lower in 2002, shame the rankings weren't introduced :giggle: All I can see is we were No. 6 in 2003 and No. 3 by 2005. We weren't such a good ODI side then, I agree. And don't exaggerate it, when did Ganguly tell him that's the only way he could maintain his spot & all? There was a certain Pankaj Dharmani piling on the runs and doing well as a keeper. Yet first Deep Das Gupta got picked ' date=' then Ajay Ratra was chosen and then came Papa.[/quote'] Thanks SI, didn't know about him. Though wasn't papa selected as the regular keeper for our A sides? (Like Saha now).
Andy Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Great to know that we have Finally won the Series against SA under which no other captain have managed to do before. Yes, Now that we have won the Series in SA and World Cup too, Indeed MSD is better Captain than Ganguly.
saneindian Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Eh? What are you trying to prove by posting the rankings? Would've been even lower in 2002, shame the rankings weren't introduced :giggle: All I can see is we were No. 6 in 2003 and No. 3 by 2005. We weren't such a good ODI side then, I agree. And don't exaggerate it, when did Ganguly tell him that's the only way he could maintain his spot & all? Thanks SI, didn't know about him. Though wasn't papa selected as the regular keeper for our A sides? (Like Saha now). PaPa was our u-19 captain in the 2002 u-19 WC. Then got picked for the A tours to SA and SL. Got selected for the tour to England as the reserve keeper with Ratra picked as the first choice keeper. After the 1st test, Ratra got injured, PaPa got a chance and helped us save the test and despite being a poor keeper, kept on playing till DK replaced him for the last test vs Australia in 2004.
Andy Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 "He inherited a great team, which of course he has manage well and has improved. really?? our bowling lineup rightnow is not much better than bangladesh.Without zaheer , our bowlers are toothess.Ganguly had better team than dhoni but as i said earlier that he was stupid captain. If he was a stupid Captain Think what Complement Dhoni deserves. MSD lead side was knocked out of ICC CT 2099, That was the first Big tournament India had Under MSD in 50 overs Cricket. Where as Ganguly in his first Big assignment took us to Finals of CT 2000, We were Joint winners of 2T 2002, and Went to the WC Final 2003. There are some Big achievemnt there. Plus he went to play the Best side in the world and Drew the series in 2003-04.
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