The Pathan Bomb Strikes Again

[Online]

love the thread title

[achilles]

YP :isalute:

[cowboysfan]

I know people here have different choices with respect to Kohli and Yusuf but I know that Dhoni and the coach WILL pick Yusuf over kohli simply because he can bowl and he can change the game with a few hits.Dhoni is not a hitter anymore and Yuvi and raina look out of sorts atm.

[Late Cut]

Drop Raina, retain both Yusuf and Kohli. Simple enough.

[Castro]

I know people here have different choices with respect to Kohli and Yusuf but I know that Dhoni and the coach WILL pick Yusuf over kohli simply because he can bowl and he can change the game with a few hits.Dhoni is not a hitter anymore and Yuvi and raina look out of sorts atm.

TBH, I think both players will feature in the line up. Kohli has been playing very superbly and he is a very good fielder. I am certain Yusuf will feature in the starting 1due to the hitting aspect and is a useful bowler in sub-continent conditions.

[Ram]

Leaving aside the tangibles that he brings us to the table, Yusuf does come along with a few intangibles as well. Foremost among them, is the fact that he has the ability to leave the opposition captains’ bowling plan in tatters. Because he can so devastating against the spinner, whenever he comes into bat, the fielding captain is almost forced to turn to his seamers to prevent any collateral damage. Whether this happens in the power-play situation or otherwise, it will certainly have a negative impact on the fielding’s side to keep the runs down in the latter stages of the innings, mainly because they were forced to use 3-4 overs of their primary seamers against Yusuf, if he does bat in the middle overs. That can make a HUGE difference in the end. Graeme Smith, for example, was forced to bring on Steyn, immediately after the over he launched that vicious attack on Botha. So in the end, we were having a situation where the Indians had 7 overs left to face and only 1 over each, remaining for Steyn and Morkel. Therefore, Parnell bowled last set of overs, which probably simplified Bhajji’s job scoring those last 40 runs.

[Online]

Leaving aside the tangibles that he brings us to the table, Yusuf does come along with a few intangibles as well. Foremost among them, is the fact that he has the ability to leave the opposition captains’ bowling plan in tatters. Because he can so devastating against the spinner, whenever he comes into bat, the fielding captain is almost forced to turn to his seamers to prevent any collateral damage. Whether this happens in the power-play situation or otherwise, it will certainly have a negative impact on the fielding’s side to keep the runs down in the latter stages of the innings, mainly because they were forced to use 3-4 overs of their primary seamers against Yusuf, if he does bat in the middle overs. That can make a HUGE difference in the end. Graeme Smith, for example, was forced to bring on Steyn, immediately after the over he launched that vicious attack on Botha. So in the end, we were having a situation where the Indians had 7 overs left to face and only 1 over each, remaining for Steyn and Morkel. Therefore, Parnell bowled last set of overs, which probably simplified Bhajji’s job scoring those last 40 runs.

good point

[pensionplan]

His moniker itself includes word "sucks". So I am not surprised by his posts :-)

Very nicely put.

[CSK Fan]

TBH' date=' I think both players will feature in the line up. Kohli has been playing very superbly and he is a very good fielder. I am certain Yusuf will feature in the starting 1due to the hitting aspect and is a useful bowler in sub-continent conditions.[/quote'] So would you drop UV then? A very difficult call IMO but a problem of plenty and competition for places is a good thing for a team

[saneindian]

YP could prove to be a game changer for us and that X factor will get him the nod ahead of Kohli. And his versatility also adds another dimension. If needed he can bat in the powerplay, bowl in PP overs, bat lower down, bowl in the death. Him coing good is a huge boost for India.

[Ram]

And btw, lets not kid ourselves that Pathan is an ‘all-rounder’. He plainly isn’t. His bowling in ODIs during the last 2 years at home has been appalling. In fact, he has the worst economy rate of all spinners who have played for India in the last 2 years, including both specialist and part-timers. His strike rate is horrible as well. Right now, we have 2 players who are tending towards the all-rounder role. First is Yuvraj. His part-time spin bowling has been a revelation lately. He consistently gets through 6-8 overs on an average every innings, which is hugely impressive and his ER is not too shabby either. Second is Bhajji. His batting has helped us win some memorable matches in the last 6 months alone, whether it be the Champions trophy match against Pakistan, or the 3rd ODI against South Africa. He definitely adds some depth to our batting.

[saneindian]

And btw, lets not kid ourselves that Pathan is an ‘all-rounder’. He plainly isn’t. His bowling in ODIs during the last 2 years at home has been appalling. In fact, he has the worst economy rate of all spinners who have played for India in the last 2 years, including both specialist and part-timers. His strike rate is horrible as well. Right now, we have 2 players who are tending towards the all-rounder role. First is Yuvraj. His part-time spin bowling has been a revelation lately. He consistently gets through 6-8 overs on an average every innings, which is hugely impressive and his ER is not too shabby either. Second is Bhajji. His batting has helped us win some memorable matches in the last 6 months alone, whether it be the Champions trophy match against Pakistan, or the 3rd ODI against South Africa. He definitely adds some depth to our batting.

Pathan ver 2 has comeback as a better batsman (not a wild slogger) and a better bowler too. Has taken 3-4 5 wicket hauls in domestic cricket on good batting wickets this season. Did well with the ball in the series vs NZ, bowled decently in the last ODI too. Don't be surprised to see him bowl well in the future too.

[pensionplan]

Hope YP is not teared down should he not live up to some of the hype created. To me he still is a huge question mark playing quality bowling and coming out on tops consistently. There is a reason why despite his big hitting capabilities he is kept out of the ODI side for most part and players like Ravindra Jadeja tried. He had a string of failures in his earlier stints and had to be dropped. So one needs to be mindful of all those things and not just get caught up on these last two innings However the guy was great in that NZ game and was a treat to watch the way he finished that game. I will give him that and hope his career has taken a turn for the better as he observed as well after that game. Let us see how it turns out.

[Ram]

Pathan ver 2 has comeback as a better batsman (not a wild slogger) and a better bowler too. Has taken 3-4 5 wicket hauls in domestic cricket on good batting wickets this season. Did well with the ball in the series vs NZ' date=' bowled decently in the last ODI too. Don't be surprised to see him bowl well in the future too.[/quote'] He had a rare good game against NZ on a raging turner in Chennai. But on flat tracks during prior ODI series at home, his bowling was way below par. And it is these very same flat tracks that we will encounter in the world cup. I am afraid Yusuf Pathan may turn out to be one of those players whom we hope is an all-rounder, but never really fulfills the expectations. For a big proportion of his career, we tried to manufacture an all-rounder out of Agarkar, which ultimately turned out be futile.

[coffee_rules]

Drop Raina' date=' retain both Yusuf and Kohli. Simple enough.[/quote'] Unless it is SA, we don;t need 3 pacers in Indian pitches. I would go with Yusuf and 2 pacers and 1 spinner in India.

[Roshanrocks]

:elefant::elefant::elefant:

Pathan has always been destructive, everyone knows that. What has changed now, and I might be too early/premature on this, is that he seems to have finally come to a realization that for him to be match-winner for India with the bat, he doesn’t have to tonk EVERY ball that comes his way. Everybody, including your truly sometimes, keeps talking about he is suspect against high quality short-pitched bowling. But what we keep ignoring repeatedly, is his unbelievable ability to wreak havoc when the bowler pitches in his zone. He seems to have finally reconciled with his strengths and weaknesses. Sometimes, a simple realization like that can free-up your mind and let you just do the thing you’re good at, instead of trying to break barriers and rise above your limitations. All big-hitters have big egos. They feel the need to entertain. A vast proportion of their shots are not motivated by match-situations at all. Because, growing up, if you're a big hitter, you're always the cynosure of the crowd. Everyone marvels at you when land one three blocks away. So its very hard to lose that instinct to entertain and be appreciated for it. Only a few like Dhoni can make the transition from a swashbuckling power-bat, to a uber-cool, level-headed game-closer. Pathan seems to have chosen to put his ego away in his closet, play the patience game and wait for something in his arc. And that is all it takes really. Because of ability to clear the ground, Pathan needs to score only off a third of all the balls he faces and yet have a SR in excess of 120. And bear in mind, its easy for opposition captains to plan for short-pitched bowling against him. But in terms of logistics, its an extremely hard to implement. First of all, you need to be a really skilled bowler to get your short-balls picture perfect every time. It easy to spray them 3 feet outside off-stump or have them sail way over the batsmen’s head for a wide. Secondly, as a run-containing strategy, short-balls are extremely high-risk. We all have seen bowlers attempt six Yorkers/over during the death. But you will find a bowler trying six short-balls/over. The batsmen needs to make only semi-decent contact for the ball to sail over fine-leg. Plus, Pathan maybe suspect when it comes to short-balls directed at his body, but he is a ferocious cutter, especially backward of point. So as a containing/wicket-taking strategy, the bowler really needs to get inch-perfect for it work. Else, with his long arms that give great leverage and his above average bat-speed, he only needs to get an edge for the ball to disappear to the boundary.

Post of the thread :two_thumbs_up: :elefant:

[Zero_Unit]

Now only if we can get UV to get back in form If UV gets back in form our line up looks something like this for the world cup Sehwag (Big hitter) Sachin (Best in the business) Gambhir (Calm + Composed + builds innings) UV (Big hitter + great finisher) Dhoni (weird) Raina (Hitter + finisher) YP (Huge hitter + finisher) Harbhajan (dependable tail batsman)

lol Dhoni = weird ... good one

[Silva]

How about going in with just 2 seamers

Thats something the selectors should have tried expierementing with. IMO 30 overs spin wouldn't be a bad idea againt England or South afirca.

[saneindian]

He had a rare good game against NZ on a raging turner in Chennai. But on flat tracks during prior ODI series at home, his bowling was way below par. And it is these very same flat tracks that we will encounter in the world cup. I am afraid Yusuf Pathan may turn out to be one of those players whom we hope is an all-rounder, but never really fulfills the expectations. For a big proportion of his career, we tried to manufacture an all-rounder out of Agarkar, which ultimately turned out be futile.

Has bowled better than Yuvi in the last series and in the only match of this series he has played!! Not trying to compare the two, but just a perspective. As I said, don't look at how he did before his comeback in the NZ series. He's become a better bowler, bowled brilliantly in the domestic season, bowled long spells and wasnt a dart thrower that he earlier was. Is going to be a handful in Indian conditions. And no he didnt do well well on a raging turner vs NZ, bowled well right through the series.

[Fontaine]

To me he still is a huge question mark playing quality bowling and coming out on tops consistently. There is a reason why despite his big hitting capabilities he is kept out of the ODI side for most part and players like Ravindra Jadeja tried.

Doesn't matter. That criticism can be applied to virtually ANY modern batsmen in the limited overs game. Take a look at Graeme Smith. See how poorly he looks against quality left hand bowling? Does that mean you question the player and drop someone like Smith because he looks like a complete muppet against Zak? No, ofcourse not. Quality bowling, especially on tracks that have something in it for bowlers will usually limit even top batsmen. With Yusuf Pathan there's no point expecting him to be playing glorious cover drives with perfect footwork and technique. Look at Rohit Sharma, he has those qualities and where has it gotten him? Even his best innings are no match for Yusuf on a good day. No, Yusuf is a violent war like demi god of batting. Ideally he should be floated up and down the order as a pinch hitter depending on the match situation. If there are just a few overs left then bring him up the order to unleash hell. If there are 20 or more overs left then maybe he should come out lower down the order. That's how I would use him as a batsmen and if you look at the BEST ODI cricket India has played in the last three years it's following a very structured approach: Violence from Sehwag at the top Grafting/building innings from Gambhir/SRT/Dhoni/Raina in the middle overs. More Violence lower down from Yuvi/Yusuf With that approach and mixture of power hitting and patience from our middle order India have easily breached the 300 run mark time and time again whether chasing or setting a target. Dhoni in particular has emphasized this approach and said numerous times that one or two players need to stabilize the innings while the rest of the power hitters bat around them and go after the bowlers. The first/last 12 overs is the key. When the power hitters in this team get their form and mojo going then there isn't any team on this planet that can even compete against us. We've demolished good teams like England, Sri Lanka, South Africa using the same approach at home in ODIs. We're not going to win the world cup with great bowling/fielding because we're not consistent enough in those areas. We're going to win it by putting 300 plus scores and mentally scaring the crap out of teams before they even take the field. You don't use a dentists fine tuned drill to knock down a wall. You use the biggest sledgehammer available. Pathan is our best power hitter lower down the order (it's no longer Yuvi/Raina/Dhoni). Use him as such.