Folks still think Sree is an ODI bowler? :hysterical:

[zen]

There is one thing for a wicket taking swing bowler to be more prone to being expensive at times. Usually, the good ones have back up options and a brain to restrict the damage when things are not going their way. And then there is the Sreesanth way of being a wicket taking swing bowler in ODIs. When things are not going Sreesanth's way he is absolutely atrocious. The captain is not even left with the option of bowling him for 7-8 overs at 6 RPO. On these days he regularly gets clobbered for 7+ RPO. This is his bowling record since 2010 : http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/34274.html?class=2;spanmin1=01+Jan+2010;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings An economy rate of 7.15 FFS! Notice the number of times he has been absolutely taken to the cleaners at 7,8,9,10 RPO. You can't play such a bowler in the knockout section of the tournament. He can single handedly lose you the game against good opposition. And an average of 37 suggests that the wicket taking part is also partly mythical.

I looked at the last 11 games that you highlighted: 1. Against SA at Jaipur, picked up Kallis and Boucher in the game that Ind won by 1 run. 2. Against SA at Gwailor, picked up 3 wkts, RRR was 8 3. Against NZ at Gauhati, picked up 3 wkts 4. Against NZ at Jaipur, picked up 4 wkts to set up an Ind win That's 12 wkts in 4 games. This also means that he has failed in 7 games but of those 6 were played at Dhaka. Let's assume that Dhaka is his unlucky ground, which means that he has made some kind of contribution in 4 out of 5 games that he played in India in 2010. That's pretty good! .... On the other hand, if you want to take the 11 games, then too picking up key wkts in 4 out of 11 games is not bad either for an on and off bowler

[The Outsider]

I looked at the last 11 games that you highlighted: 1. Against SA at Jaipur, picked up Kallis and Boucher in the game that Ind won by 1 run. 2. Against SA at Gwailor, picked up 3 wkts, RRR was 8 3. Against NZ at Gauhati, picked up 3 wkts 4. Against NZ at Jaipur, picked up 4 wkts to set up an Ind win That's 12 wkts in 4 games. This also means that he has failed in 7 games but of those 6 were played at Dhaka. Let's assume that Dhaka is his unlucky ground, which means that he has made some kind of contribution in 4 out of 5 games that he played in India in 2010. That's pretty good! .... On the other hand, if you want to take the 11 games, then too picking up key wkts in 4 out of 11 games is not bad either for an on and off bowler

WTF! Assume it's an unlucky ground!? Maybe he should go to Ajmeri Baba in that case? Again WTF! On and off bowler!? Is that how you are analyzing him? Here I was thinking he is supposed to be a front line bowler for the team! I don't know how you can label a performance where he got carted for 8+ runs per over picking up two wickets as a success barometer, neither can I see how you are laying so much emphasis on a performance which came when opposition was chasing 400+. He did well against NZ, but we all know where NZ stands in world cricket today.

[Sachin=GOD]

I looked at the last 11 games that you highlighted: 1. Against SA at Jaipur, picked up Kallis and Boucher in the game that Ind won by 1 run. 2. Against SA at Gwailor, picked up 3 wkts, RRR was 8 3. Against NZ at Gauhati, picked up 3 wkts 4. Against NZ at Jaipur, picked up 4 wkts to set up an Ind win That's 12 wkts in 4 games. This also means that he has failed in 7 games but of those 6 were played at Dhaka. Let's assume that Dhaka is his unlucky ground, which means that he has made some kind of contribution in 4 out of 5 games that he played in India in 2010. That's pretty good! .... On the other hand, if you want to take the 11 games, then too picking up key wkts in 4 out of 11 games is not bad either for an on and off bowler[/QUOTE] for the World Cup we don't want an on & off bowler like Sree who loses it completely if he's hit for a couple of fours or if any batsman says something to him. He simply does not have the right temperament. Ideally in sub continent pitches we should go with 2+2 but if we want to go with 3 pacers and Nehra is fit then I'd have him over Sree anyday.

[zen]

WTF! Assume it's an unlucky ground!? Maybe he should go to Ajmeri Baba in that case? Again WTF! On and off bowler!? Is that how you are analyzing him? Here I was thinking he is supposed to be a front line bowler for the team! I don't know how you can label a performance where he got carted for 8+ runs per over picking up two wickets as a success barometer, neither can I see how you are laying so much emphasis on a performance which came when opposition was chasing 400+. He did well against NZ, but we all know where NZ stands in world cricket today.

By unlucky ground, I meant one of those grounds/places where some players don't do well. I did give you the option to take all 11 games that you highlighted so don't know if there is anything to complain there! Unless you think that Kallis and Boucher would have gotten out anyways, I don't see how picking up their wkts to help Ind win is not a good contribution. If one of them had not got out the chances of SA getting 2 more runs would have been higher, no? And isn't my point that its wkts that change the game? Are you implying that picking up Amla and van der Merve early on in a game accounts for nothing because the opposition is chasing a high score? By that logic, I guess, Munaf's performance today means little too as BD was chasing a high score! So based on what you said: 1. We cannot take his performances against SA because those were high scoring games so ER were high anyways 2. Performances against NZ and BD cannot be counted because we know where they stand in world cricket 3. That only leaves us with 3 games against SL, which is a small sample size By process of elimination, we can say that the list that you posted to show Sree is ineffective means little, so then there is no point in either posting or discussing it :P

[zen]

for the World Cup we don't want an on & off bowler like Sree who loses it completely if he's hit for a couple of fours or if any batsman says something to him. He simply does not have the right temperament. Ideally in sub continent pitches we should go with 2+2 but if we want to go with 3 pacers and Nehra is fit then I'd have him over Sree anyday.

I guess, the rest of the bowlers must be all highly consistent and delivered in every game! :hmmmm2: I don't mind Nehra either, if he is able to do a better job of picking early wkts! It just that I don't see the criticism against Sree to be fair

[CSK Fan]

Here is the performances of our bowlers today S Sreesanth 5 0 53 0 10.60 (1nb, 1w) Z Khan 10 0 40 2 4.00 (4w) MM Patel 10 0 48 4 4.80 Harbhajan Singh 10 0 41 1 4.10 (1w) YK Pathan 8 0 49 1 6.12 (2w) Yuvraj Singh 7 0 42 0 6.00 (1w) Pretty clear who the weak link was. Also, the part timers wouldnt have ahd to bowl as many overs if Nehra had been there

[The Outsider]

Unless you think that Kallis and Boucher would have gotten out anyways, I don't see how picking up their wkts to help Ind win is not a good contribution. If one of them had not got out the chances of SA getting 2 more runs would have been higher, no? And isn't my point that its wkts that change the game?

Do you know how South Africa got so close to the target? It's because Steyn and Parnell mauled Sreesanth as well. Look, taking Boucher and Kallis is good, but taking 1-2 wickets in an ODI match is at best a slightly above average performance and when you couple that with the 8+ RPO he conceded it becomes a below average performance.

Are you implying that picking up Amla and van der Merve early on in a game accounts for nothing because the opposition is chasing a high score? By that logic, I guess, Munaf's performance today means little too as BD was chasing a high score!

Where am I rating Munaf's performance today as some great feat? It's a par performance, given the huge total to defend.

So based on what you said: 1. We cannot take his performances against SA because those were high scoring games so ER were high anyways

No, I did not say that. Read above for clarifications. All in all his performance against South Africa was well below average.

2. Performances against NZ and BD cannot be counted because we know where they stand in world cricket

Quite obviously they get lesser weight than performing against the better teams, else Yousuf would be as good a batsman as Tendulkar. I don't see the confusion here.

3. That only leaves us with 3 games against SL, which is a small sample size

And South Africa. See, if Sreesanth was part of a 5 man bowling attack, it would have been okay to play him as a blow hot, blow cold, out and out attacking option. However, he plays in a team where a minimum of 10 overs have to be bowled by part time bowlers anyway. If he has a poor day and cannot bowl more than 4-5 overs, not only are those 4-5 expensive but the part timers are also going to go for a hell lot more. And good teams are going to make sure to target that.

[Sachin=GOD]

See, if Sreesanth was part of a 5 man bowling attack, it would have been okay to play him as a blow hot, blow cold, out and out attacking option. However, he plays in a team where a minimum of 10 overs have to be bowled by part time bowlers anyway. If he has a poor day and cannot bowl more than 4-5 overs, not only are those 4-5 expensive but the part timers are also going to go for a hell lot more. And good teams are going to make sure to target that.

This.

[zen]

Do you know how South Africa got so close to the target? It's because Steyn and Parnell mauled Sreesanth as well. Look, taking Boucher and Kallis is good, but taking 1-2 wickets in an ODI match is at best a slightly above average performance and when you couple that with the 8+ RPO he conceded it becomes a below average performance. Where am I rating Munaf's performance today as some great feat? It's a par performance, given the huge total to defend. No, I did not say that. Read above for clarifications. All in all his performance against South Africa was well below average. Quite obviously they get lesser weight than performing against the better teams, else Yousuf would be as good a batsman as Tendulkar. I don't see the confusion here. And South Africa. See, if Sreesanth was part of a 5 man bowling attack, it would have been okay to play him as a blow hot, blow cold, out and out attacking option. However, he plays in a team where a minimum of 10 overs have to be bowled by part time bowlers anyway. If he has a poor day and cannot bowl more than 4-5 overs, not only are those 4-5 expensive but the part timers are also going to go for a hell lot more. And good teams are going to make sure to target that.

I understand your PoV .... My point is that bowlers like Sree are going to go for runs but will give crucial breakthroughs by bowling a few wkt taking balls, which will help Ind .... so when I say that see he picks up wkts, you will say that he goes for runs and when you say that he goes for runs, I would say that he picks up wkts To show that he goes for runs (while ignoring the wkts he took), you posted a link which highlighted the 11 games of which you now say that only those against SA and SL count. I am saying that ER would be high for most bowlers in a high scoring series like the one against SA. A team doesn't score 300-400 runs against just one bowler. And because it's a 300-400 runs game, it's how you get the crucial breakthroughs that count (as containment is difficult and bowlers like Sree deliver by picking up wkts). SA is no BD so its batsmen are going to play similarly to how Ind batsmen play against Sa bowlers. Therefore, there is little point, imo, in posting ER of those games as if the general ER is say 5 runs an over, which is why wkts taken become crucial .... And it's taken that Sree ER would be higher than some of those who look to bowl more dot balls. Now if Ind has a better option than Sree then it is free to utilize it. I am not saying that Sree is the best option we have but saying that someone like Sree can be useful in giving crucial breakthroughs (as I showed in one of my posts) so if he is played in a game then his job is to go all out of wkts. In the process of going all out for wkts, he has to take risks and because of that he could be expensive. It's probably not fair to criticize Sree because he leaks runs because of the role he tries to play In this game, Sree was expensive but did he bowl that badly? I don't think so. I watched the game live and I felt that BD batsmen had little clue against his swing and got many those runs through edges (implying that Sree was unlucky to pick wkts). And yes, he did bowl one bad over in his first spell (a wide or two went for 4 as well) as he was trying his best to get wkts but that can happen. Which is why I feel that Sree is being unfairly criticized for his performance here. Since you claim to ignore performances (whether good or bad) against weak teams, I take it that you are not judging Sree based on his performance in this game. (if you do then it wouldn't make sense to ignore his performance against NZ). The high ER in a high scoring series like the one against SA that you mention doesn't tell the full story to me. To summarize: 1. The points above make discussing these 11 games that you listed pointless. IMO, he has delivered by picking crucial wkts in the games played in India that you listed. 2. Ind is free to use a better option if it has. If Sree plays, he is bound to go for runs in the process of picking wkts up. 3. And criticizing Sree heavily in this game is probably not fair.

[hitman1980]

bhai logo .. he had a bad day.. So just let it go .. He got so many edged tht went for 4 .. But its very annoying tht when i gets stick, he just panic and keep bowling trash ... The seam moment he was getting was awesome .. jeet gaye naa yaar .. so cool raho .. mushkil se toh chance mila hai usko WC mein khelne ka :D

[Sachin=GOD]

bhai logo .. he had a bad day.. So just let it go .. He got so many edged tht went for 4 .. But its very annoying tht when i gets stick, he just panic and keep bowling trash ... The seam moment he was getting was awesome .. jeet gaye naa yaar .. so cool raho .. mushkil se toh chance mila hai usko WC mein khelne ka :D

bhai jeet isliye gaye kyonki yeh Bangladesh tha aur India ne 370 banaye. Next up we've got much tougher opposition in the form of Eng/SA and if Sree gives away free runs like this then its certainly not going to help India's cause. The best way IMO is to go with 2 pacers - Zak and Munaf and 2 spinners - Bhajji and Chawla/Ashwin or if need be, even go with 3 spinners and just 1 pacer.

[zen]

why cant Munaf take the new ball?swing without accuracy is useless.I'd much rather have Munaf who hits the deck,is accurate.It doesnt swing for long anyways on subcontinent tracks just because PK is succesful with the new ball,doesnt mean every swing bowler will be.to me,PK's strength more is accuracy then swing.so I'll replace his accuracy with Munaf's,not necessarily harp on swing . Bhajji is defensive wen track is flat,or conditions r not ideal.otherwise on Indian wickets,he flights it,gets spin n is a genuine wicket taking option control with new ball is as important.so if Zak is going for wickets I'll want the other one to exercise reasonable control. n that doesnt necessaarily mean that wicket taking chances r lessened. u seem to think that to go for wicket u have to go for it ever ball n try all sorts of things.I believe in sticking to a plan yeah where did I say spinners have bowl with new ball.just about variety in the attack. yeah for a swing bowler with new ball,hes supposed to concentrate on swing,no?being India's fastest bowler is nothing to boast of,hes hardly 140+.thats comfortable for most batsmen.specially is u dont concentrate on accuracy yeah there were 2 options available,why is it mandatory to go with 3 seamers,if one is injured yeah unlucky,just as Virat was lucky as he inside edged one for four:haha:.5 off 53 for Sree must have been all bad luck,what about no ball n wides,he was unlucky that his foot slipped n batsmen didnt edge his wides? your point is IF he picks up early wickets?heard about probabilities?theres more chances of Sree leaking runs than picking up early wickets most teams would back getting 8-9 in last 15 ovs,agreed,its still difficult,few good overs n RRR can shoot up a lotbut with 110-2 they only need 190 in rest 35,can easily get 5 an over with part timers n build a partnership n will only need 6-7 on over in last 15 overs.thats far too easy,isnt it stop living in dreams where everything goes ur way n live in ifs n buts.learn the difference b/w tests n ODIs bbye,will reply tomorrow if required:icflove:

Since I have some time, :icflove: 1. Because on flat decks, we should try to play 3 pacers. If we have Zak, Munaf and Sree then it's natural that Sree would take the new ball, esp when Ind is bowling under lights, no? 2. Ind wkts are usually flat. I am discussing this from the PoV of flat decks. If the pitch has turn then the strategy changes. 3. On control w/ new ball is imp: see point #1 4. A team has to utilize swing, if the ball is swinging. You don't bowl a line and length bowler if the bowlers are getting swing. Just like the first hour in tests is imp, so are the first few overs when the ball is hard in ODIs. 5. If you play a leggie instead of someone like Sree then chances of 2 spinners bowling in the PP are high, no? Unless your assumption is that only Sree goes for runs and Zak and Munaf won't go for runs and will bowl upto say 12-14 overs. 6. Let's look at your 110/2 after 15 overs comment. If you are assuming that Sree (or his replacement) picked those 2 wkts then either it's him who brought Ind back in to the game or someone else messed it up after he completed his first spell. If you still don't get it: let's say, Sree bowls 5 overs, so he is bowling till the 10th over. Now if he has picked up 2 wkts in 10 overs, then other team would be 70-80 for 2, no? Which means that other bowlers failed to pick wkts up, which is why the other team is at 110-2 after 15 overs, no? And if he is bowling first change, then he took 2 quick wkts in 11th to 15th over to bring Ind into the game :winky:

[Fontaine]

As Fontaine is a donkey. Its for everybody to see what the team thinks of him shewag says everybody except sree did well in post match press conference ,i am hearing it for the first time after winning you say such things about a team mate.The current Team is full off UNEDUCATED people they do not know what they are speaking .

Go **** yourself troll.

[zen]

bhai jeet isliye gaye kyonki yeh Bangladesh tha aur India ne 370 banaye. Next up we've got much tougher opposition in the form of Eng/SA and if Sree gives away free runs like this then its certainly not going to help India's cause. The best way IMO is to go with 2 pacers - Zak and Munaf and 2 spinners - Bhajji and Chawla/Ashwin or if need be, even go with 3 spinners and just 1 pacer.

Let's say we have a flat deck: How do you propose, we use the 2 seamers in power-plays and at the death? 1. Bowling PP, usually till 15th over 2. Batting PP, usually around 35 over, when the ball is changed 3. At death, in the last 5-6 overs, when the other team is swinging for everything In the first 15, if the 2 seamers bowl till the 10 over then we have to bowl 5 overs of spin with the hard ball. And you saw how Bhajji was struggling to get a turn with the hard ball. Which is why he has to bowl restrictive lines (and we thus lose out on his few overs in the middle overs where he has ability to bowl wkt taking balls w/ the ball softening up) In the first 15, if the 2 seamers bowl for say 12 overs, it makes bowling a few overs of batting powerplay around 35th over and then the last 5-6 overs tricky, esp if the other team has wkts in hand If we had 2 of Warne, Murali and Kumble, I would go with 2 spinners and 2 seamers on a flat deck, probably not with Bhajji and company and the kind of seamers that we have. :winky:

[Anakin]

Some of you are making Sreesanth sound like a reincarnation of Waqar - so what if he goes for a few runs, he is a wicket taker. He has the worst ever economy rate for an ODI bowler to have ever played the game, FFS!

So what? He's the best wicket taking bowler ever :crazy4:

[CG]

PK is known for a)swinging the ball BOTH ways b)better accuracy c)better abilty to handle pressure I mentioned Sree's career coz I though u mistook for reacting for only one over so Bhajji is supposed to go for wickets n just put a stop on runs?hes our senior bowler n on these wickets,hes absolutely the man to go for wickets never said Zak n Sree was similar,its just thier job what they r required to do.ofcourse Zak knows his job much better n bowls with a plan unlike Sree Pk is HAMMERED on flat pitches and averages 61 and economy is higher than sree in india. we dont need Sree's kind of variety.thats for test matches.even Agarkar is better here.atleast he can bat n field better. flexibilty is good if each option has it merits has roughly equal chances of working.if I want flexibity in my bowling attack,i'll rather pick a leggie if he just concentrated on swinging the ball by consistent line n length,it'd been better.one four n he completely loses it.tries to go for bouncer,yourkers,inswingers.obviuosly either he doesnt know his job or just doesnt know how to do it where is Sree good?once in 20 games where he gets swing,gets line n length right.problem is his inconsistency.n wen hes bad,hes awful,has no plan at all ofcourse wickets r the key early on,but that doesnt mean u have to take risk of going for a flurry of runs.Zak ,Munaf,Nehra are equally capable of taking wickets but they dont go for so many runs. if we r defending 300,what'd u like at 15 over mark?110-2 or 70-1?

[CG]

Go **** yourself troll.

why because you are getting ****** in the ***,have some shame calling players name just shows your background and class

[CG]

whats uneducated here? sehwag is well known to speak his mind off whenever questions are asked to him and he actually speaks what most of the team and Indian fans are thinking at that moment one doesnt point any towards the guy when he says that it was a revenge for 2007 match but at the same time when he says some player hasn't done well, he has all solid proof for it , we got to accept it

you do not in public say those things in a team sport,you can in private blast a guy also for goodness sake we won the match easily,Remember why greg chappel was blasted as he always went public and shewag himself said he did not trust him,shewag has had so many failures have you heard anybody saying thos ethings about him?

[CG]

I understand your PoV .... My point is that bowlers like Sree are going to go for runs but will give crucial breakthroughs by bowling a few wkt taking balls, which will help Ind .... so when I say that see he picks up wkts, you will say that he goes for runs and when you say that he goes for runs, I would say that he picks up wkts To show that he goes for runs (while ignoring the wkts he took), you posted a link which highlighted the 11 games of which you now say that only those against SA and SL count. I am saying that ER would be high for most bowlers in a high scoring series like the one against SA. A team doesn't score 300-400 runs against just one bowler. And because it's a 300-400 runs game, it's how you get the crucial breakthroughs that count (as containment is difficult and bowlers like Sree deliver by picking up wkts). SA is no BD so its batsmen are going to play similarly to how Ind batsmen play against Sa bowlers. Therefore, there is little point, imo, in posting ER of those games as if the general ER is say 5 runs an over, which is why wkts taken become crucial .... And it's taken that Sree ER would be higher than some of those who look to bowl more dot balls. Now if Ind has a better option than Sree then it is free to utilize it. I am not saying that Sree is the best option we have but saying that someone like Sree can be useful in giving crucial breakthroughs (as I showed in one of my posts) so if he is played in a game then his job is to go all out of wkts. In the process of going all out for wkts, he has to take risks and because of that he could be expensive. It's probably not fair to criticize Sree because he leaks runs because of the role he tries to play In this game, Sree was expensive but did he bowl that badly? I don't think so. I watched the game live and I felt that BD batsmen had little clue against his swing and got many those runs through edges (implying that Sree was unlucky to pick wkts). And yes, he did bowl one bad over in his first spell (a wide or two went for 4 as well) as he was trying his best to get wkts but that can happen. Which is why I feel that Sree is being unfairly criticized for his performance here. Since you claim to ignore performances (whether good or bad) against weak teams, I take it that you are not judging Sree based on his performance in this game. (if you do then it wouldn't make sense to ignore his performance against NZ). The high ER in a high scoring series like the one against SA that you mention doesn't tell the full story to me. To summarize: 1. The points above make discussing these 11 games that you listed pointless. IMO, he has delivered by picking crucial wkts in the games played in India that you listed. 2. Ind is free to use a better option if it has. If Sree plays, he is bound to go for runs in the process of picking wkts up. 3. And criticizing Sree heavily in this game is probably not fair.

mate this forum is full of people who have never played cricket just armchair fans,the point you are making is valid and after one match such criticism is not valid.

[2k11 prod]

career econ of over 6 what was expected? the presssure got to him and he crumbled