Should Praveen kumar be taken to England ?

[Dhruv200]

i m 99.9% that Dhoni will pick Praveen Kumar for tour of england.

[Fontaine]

To me playing him in a test match' date=' whatever the conditions are, is a bit of a gamble. You expect him to take wickets with the new ball, but if it does not happen and oppisition plays him well, than he could be pretty much like what Jaydev Unadkat was in his first test against SA.[/quote'] So you're problem is that Praveen Kumar won't be as affective when the ball doesn't swing and gets old? FFS, that's pretty much the problem with almost EVERY swing bowler out there. There are a very few elite bowlers that can be threatening without helpful conditions but for the most part every bowler looks ordinary/average once the ball gets old and there's no swing/seam movement. You can pretty much guarantee it that PK will be in the squad because we currently have very few effective swing bowlers.

[rkt.india]

I think you can be pretty sure he didn't watch the match.

I didnt watch the match. I followed that game through cricinfo, my point is not the overs with the new ball, my point is the overs between 20-80 in an innings. In that game too, he didn't take wickets in between these overs while a batsman like Rajat Bhatiya was batting who is not even a specialist batsman.

[rkt.india]

So you're problem is that Praveen Kumar won't be as affective when the ball doesn't swing and gets old? FFS, that's pretty much the problem with almost EVERY swing bowler out there. There are a very few elite bowlers that can be threatening without helpful conditions but for the most part every bowler looks ordinary/average once the ball gets old and there's no swing/seam movement. You can pretty much guarantee it that PK will be in the squad because we currently have very few effective swing bowlers.

No you are wrong. Firstly there are not many swing bowlers as slow as PK in the world. Secondly, the likes of ZAK, Steyn, Anderson and others who can swing the ball are not dependent only on swing. Even with the old ball they take wickets by using reverse swing, Pace and reverse swing, bouncers in case of Styen, and Anderson too can swing at good pace. Zak is one of the most skillful bowler in the world. Praveen lacks all these things which is shown whenever ball does not swing for him.

[Fontaine]

No you are wrong. Firstly there are not many swing bowlers as slow as PK in the world. Secondly' date=' the likes of ZAK, Steyn, Anderson and others who can swing the ball are not dependent only on swing. Even with the old ball they take wickets by using reverse swing, Pace and reverse swing, bouncers in case of Styen, and Anderson too can swing at good pace. Zak is one of the most skillful bowler in the world. Praveen lacks all these things which is shown whenever ball does not swing for him.[/quote'] Well you've just named three of the best swing bowlers in the world today so if you're comparing Praveen or anyone else by those standards what do you expect? :haha: It comes down to this simple question if you're the captain: 1. Would you rather have 15-18 overs of consistent, dependable and accurate swing bowling from Praveen who can swing it both ways and is nearly unplayeable in those conditions, and for him to become average after that. or 2. Risk unpredicteability, mood swings, drama with the rare great spell every 6/7 tests from Sreesanth, who's also not great once that ball gets old. I know which one I would choose and looking back in our previous tour it became obvious the longer the tour went on that RP should have been given the new ball instead of Sree.

[Sachinism]

No you are wrong. Firstly there are not many swing bowlers as slow as PK in the world. Secondly' date=' the likes of ZAK, Steyn, Anderson and others who can swing the ball are not dependent only on swing. Even with the old ball they take wickets by using reverse swing, Pace and reverse swing, bouncers in case of Styen, and Anderson too can swing at good pace. Zak is one of the most skillful bowler in the world. Praveen lacks all these things which is shown whenever ball does not swing for him.[/quote'] yeh we all saw how effective Anderson was without swing in the world cup :haha::haha:

[saneindian]

I didnt watch the match. I followed that game through cricinfo' date=' my point is not the overs with the new ball, [b']my point is the overs between 20-80 in an innings. In that game too, he didn't take wickets in between these overs while a batsman like Rajat Bhatiya was batting who is not even a specialist batsman.

Yeah the fact that he created 3-4 chances during those overs which were spilled doesn't count for anything. And I can tell you both Chopra and Bhatia were not at all comfortable playing him even during his 2nd and 3rd spell. FFS he took 8 wickets in the innings. It was the the job of 3-4 other bowlers in the team to support him after he had cleaned up the top order in his first spell. And also if you have followed PK's first class career, he's pretty much outbowled every bowler in the first class matches he has played in the last 2-3 years (be it paying for UP or for Central Zone). It's really sad to see that he is yet to get a game for India A despite such stellar performances

[saneindian]

No you are wrong. Firstly there are not many swing bowlers as slow as PK in the world. Secondly' date=' the likes of ZAK, Steyn, Anderson and others who can swing the ball are not dependent only on swing. Even with the old ball they take wickets by using reverse swing, Pace and reverse swing, bouncers in case of Styen, and Anderson too can swing at good pace. Zak is one of the most skillful bowler in the world. [b']Praveen lacks all these things which is shown whenever ball does not swing for him.

How many tests/years did it take Zak, Steyn or even Anderson to develop into proper skillful swing bowlers? Why would you compare someone who is yet to play a test with 3 of the best bowlers currently?

[rkt.india]

Well you've just named three of the best swing bowlers in the world today so if you're comparing Praveen or anyone else by those standards what do you expect? :haha: It comes down to this simple question if you're the captain: 1. Would you rather have 15-18 overs of consistent, dependable and accurate swing bowling from Praveen who can swing it both ways and is nearly unplayeable in those conditions, and for him to become average after that. or 2. Risk unpredicteability, mood swings, drama with the rare great spell every 6/7 tests from Sreesanth, who's also not great once that ball gets old. I know which one I would choose and looking back in our previous tour it became obvious the longer the tour went on that RP should have been given the new ball instead of Sree.

I am not a great fan of Sreeshanth since he is kind of an enigma in itself, an unsolved riddle, who himself does not what he has in store on a particular day. I am apprehensive about PK because he rarely touches 130 in ODI and T20. He will be bowling 120 in a long spell in test and swing at that pace may not be enough. It depends on the team management what they think. But I liked RP Singh who has done well in England previously and has swung the ball in this IPL, bowling at decent pace and Ishant Sharma if he bowls like he has bowled in this IPL. He bowled with pace, got bounce, and was also got the ball to move in as well as away on Hyderabad wicket. PK can be fourth seamer. But before that we have WI tour where we can do a bit of experimentation.

[rkt.india]

How many tests/years did it take Zak' date=' Steyn or even Anderson to develop into proper skillful swing bowlers? Why would you compare someone who is yet to play a test with 3 of the best bowlers currently?[/quote'] But you are forgetting, they had ingredients required for a pace bowler. They were not gentle medium pacers. Zak started superbly but fade away in between because of his own attitude.

[rkt.india]

yeh we all saw how effective Anderson was without swing in the world cup :haha::haha:

Anderson is not good in ODIs where ever it is. He is a better test bowler now.

[rkt.india]

Yeah the fact that he created 3-4 chances during those overs which were spilled doesn't count for anything. And I can tell you both Chopra and Bhatia were not at all comfortable playing him even during his 2nd and 3rd spell. FFS he took 8 wickets in the innings. It was the the job of 3-4 other bowlers in the team to support him after he had cleaned up the top order in his first spell. And also if you have followed PK's first class career, he's pretty much outbowled every bowler in the first class matches he has played in the last 2-3 years (be it paying for UP or for Central Zone). It's really sad to see that he is yet to get a game for India A despite such stellar performances

There are lot of examples where gentle medium swing bowlers do wonders in FC cricket in India. I remember a bowler form Hyderabad Alfred Absolem who rarely bowls 125K but swings it both ways took 6-fer on debut.

[Fontaine]

I am not a great fan of Sreeshanth since he is kind of an enigma in itself, an unsolved riddle, who himself does not what he has in store on a particular day.

He's not an enigma. There are plenty of test match bowlers that have struggled with consistency, accuracy and even attitude since the game has been played. Jimmy Anderson was exactly that 3-4 years ago where he was wildly inconsistent and ineffective without swinging conditions. The ECB dropped his ***** for the New Zealand tour and Anderson then went to New Zealand anyway for their domestic circuit, worked on his rhythym and understanding the conditions there so that when the England squad had an injury he was the automatic choice and he hasn't looked back. He's worked really hard on the mental side of his bowling in it shows in the way he tries to setup batsmen rather than getting carried away. Sreesanth has done NONE of that. Virtually every bowling coach he's had has said the same thing about him focusing on his bowling instead of getting carried away but some players never learn.

I am apprehensive about PK because he rarely touches 130 in ODI and T20. He will be bowling 120 in a long spell in test and swing at that pace may not be enough. It depends on the team management what they think. But I liked RP Singh who has done well in England previously and has swung the ball in this IPL, bowling at decent pace and Ishant Sharma if he bowls like he has bowled in this IPL. He bowled with pace, got bounce, and was also got the ball to move in as well as away on Hyderabad wicket. PK can be fourth seamer. But before that we have WI tour where we can do a bit of experimentation.

I agree that Ishant looks good again in his few short spells in his bounce, pace and most importantly wrist position being behind the ball. He needs to go to England as well. I'm not worried about Praveen Kumar at all. The guy has hardly ever let India down in swinging conditions against opening batsmen. He's definitely not express but if you can swing the ball BOTH ways in two deliveries then that's a rare gift. Not even Sreesanth can do that like PK.

[rkt.india]

He's not an enigma. There are plenty of test match bowlers that have struggled with consistency, accuracy and even attitude since the game has been played. Jimmy Anderson was exactly that 3-4 years ago where he was wildly inconsistent and ineffective without swinging conditions. The ECB dropped his ***** for the New Zealand tour and Anderson then went to New Zealand anyway for their domestic circuit, worked on his rhythym and understanding the conditions there so that when the England squad had an injury he was the automatic choice and he hasn't looked back. He's worked really hard on the mental side of his bowling in it shows in the way he tries to setup batsmen rather than getting carried away. Sreesanth has done NONE of that. Virtually every bowling coach he's had has said the same thing about him focusing on his bowling instead of getting carried away but some players never learn. I agree that Ishant looks good again in his few short spells in his bounce, pace and most importantly wrist position being behind the ball. He needs to go to England as well. I'm not worried about Praveen Kumar at all. The guy has hardly ever let India down in swinging conditions against opening batsmen. He's definitely not express but if you can swing the ball BOTH ways in two deliveries then that's a rare gift. Not even Sreesanth can do that like PK.

Problem with Sreeshanth more than consistency is his temperament and his thought process.

[rkt.india]

Deepak Chahar has qualities what PK has. Deepak has been a bit faster than PK in FC.

[saneindian]

There are lot of examples where gentle medium swing bowlers do wonders in FC cricket in India. I remember a bowler form Hyderabad Alfred Absolem who rarely bowls 125K but swings it both ways took 6-fer on debut.

Remember we are talking about taking PK to England where we will need genuine swing bowlers. And swing even at the speed of 125 is dangerous. Remember the havoc Prasad caused in 1996 or check how we won the 1986 series with the likes of Chetan Sharma who bowled at a very controlled pace yet swung the ball prodigiously.

[Fontaine]

Problem with Sreeshanth more than consistency is his temperament and his thought process.

Yes, we know, he's a mental midget. Of all the games to play stupid, he did so in the WC final going all out in his first spell to bowl fast and sprinting in which meant after 4/5 overs he was totally exhausted. You want to reward that kind of brainless attitude with a test selection when he clearly has shown nothing in the way of improvement on the simple basics? There are far more worthy candidates.

[Hell Raiser]

I would love to see Praveen Kumar steaming in with the new ball' date=' Dhoni standing up to the stumps. [b']I bet our batsman will be worried.

Your batsmen? ohhhh you mean south Africans and Irish batsman.

[rkt.india]

Remember we are talking about taking PK to England where we will need genuine swing bowlers. And swing even at the speed of 125 is dangerous. Remember the havoc Prasad caused in 1996 or check how we won the 1986 series with the likes of Chetan Sharma who bowled at a very controlled pace yet swung the ball prodigiously.

Chetan Sharma was certainly quicker than PK. Prasad's strong point was his height. PK is a good swing bowler but if we want to stay at no.1 for long, we need to raise our bar in terms of pace bowling.

[rkt.india]

Yes, we know, he's a mental midget. Of all the games to play stupid, he did so in the WC final going all out in his first spell to bowl fast and sprinting in which meant after 4/5 overs he was totally exhausted. You want to reward that kind of brainless attitude with a test selection when he clearly has shown nothing in the way of improvement on the simple basics? There are far more worthy candidates.

In final, it was only 2 overs he could sustain his pace 140+ which says the kind of fitness he has.