Switchblade Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 @UG SAURABH Tiwary also falls in that list he is a slogger IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switchblade Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Badri apart frm S.A series never got a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 And Badri ? I think Badri played just ODi series i think? not sure.. Also tests.. he didn't get much of opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switchblade Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I think Badri played just ODi series i think? not sure.. Also tests.. he didn't get much of opportunity. Yep in that 2nd O.D.I he saved us coz we were 80-5 i think made useful 23 not out played Mendis well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 even sachin or dravid didn't average 30 for more than 25+ matches. when dravid failed in a series of first 10 one day matches, there were angry letters saying why he was getting picked despite poor performnaces. fortunately test cricket in england saved him. yuvraj the man of the WC was averaging around 28 afer 54 matches. when ganguly came in 1992, he was totally lost in his one innings vs WI.even in 1996, he was dropped in toronto after complaints he was not rotating strike properly.he was strangled by symcox on his leg side play in the titan cup. he went on to become one of the best ODI batsmen and at that stage no one would have thought. All these things do not matter once players succeed. With guys like Dravid, Yuvraj and Ganguly you could see that they were talented and had the technique to succeed if given a longer run. The problem I see with Vijay is that he doesn't have too many shots. He's an excellent Test player and I would always have him in my team for opening spot or at no. 3 but in the shorter format he doesn't have what it takes to succeed. Vijay's only scoring shot or go to shot for getting quick runs is the across the line hoick/slog between wide long on and mid wicket. When it comes off he looks million dollars but more often than not such a shot will either get you bowled (played on) or top edge going miles in the air and settling in a fielder's hands. He can't even rotate strike consistently. He blocks the balls and then goes for the leg side hoick. Against good bowlers or on a pitch where ball is doing something this technique will hardly ever get you runs. Dravid, Ganguly and Yuvraj had all the shots in the world but needed to make mental adjustment to succeed at the intl level. Sadly in Murali's case this isn't so in the shorter format. In the longer format he can wait for the bad balls but he can't do so in the shorter format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vipin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I can't think of many players outside of Dhoni and Kohli who have made a smooth transition from the domestic to international cricket. Blaming Vijay and Jaddu alone doesn't solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Badri wasnt exactly a failure in tests,got a 50 in his debut innings and also in ODIs he guided India to a victory with Dhoni in his debut match against Lanka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vvvslaxman Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Badri wasnt exactly a failure in tests' date='got a 50 in his debut innings and also in ODIs he guided India to a victory with Dhoni in his debut match against Lanka[/quote'] He is in great form these days. He definitely needs a look in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 He is in great form these days. He definitely needs a look in Yup, hope guys like Badri and Rahane get their due in the near future and Uthappa gets a look-in in the shorter format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngindia Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The problem I see with Vijay is that he doesn't have too many shots. He's an excellent Test player and I would always have him in my team for opening spot or at no. 3 but in the shorter format he doesn't have what it takes to succeed. if you saw ganguly in 1996, he would be struggling to rottate strike and was limited in leg side. you expect me to believe that you would have made a judgement beyond the obvious and shallow? your posts here does not inspire much confidence. you are wrong and wrong by a long way. i see high class in vijay's game and his shots are a delight to watch. gavaskar has himself nominated rohit and vijay as the players he would like see succeed. judging potential and talent is not something every tom,dick and harry has. its a gift for a few of enormous strategic competence in the field. all i can say is you and a few others are going to be wrong.sooner or later. Dravid, Ganguly and Yuvraj had all the shots in the world but needed to make mental adjustment to succeed at the intl level this is laughable. you lack some serious understanding of how a cricketers develops. for one, they striked the ball much better as seniors.they learnt to figure out difficfult customers lke murali and genuine pacers like lee and akthar. they expanded their range of shots. especially ganguly and dravid dind't have "all the shots in the world". in 1996-1997, if sachin went, we struggled to put competetive total often. they are unrecognisable by a long way from their first version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Regarding Badri, it is rather Ironic that you needed a T20 tourney like the IPL to finally reward a guy (at least monetarily) when he was better suited for the longer format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 if you saw ganguly in 1996, he would be struggling to rottate strike and was limited in leg side. you expect me to believe that you would have made a judgement beyond the obvious and shallow? your posts here does not inspire much confidence. you are wrong and wrong by a long way. i see high class in vijay's game and his shots are a delight to watch. gavaskar has himself nominated rohit and vijay as the players he would like see succeed. judging potential and talent is not something every tom,dick and harry has. its a gift for a few of enormous strategic competence in the field. all i can say is you and a few others are going to be wrong.sooner or later. this is laughable. you lack some serious understanding of how a cricketers develops. for one, they striked the ball much better as seniors.they learnt to figure out difficfult customers lke murali and genuine pacers like lee and akthar. they expanded their range of shots. especially ganguly and dravid dind't have "all the shots in the world". in 1996-1997, if sachin went, we struggled to put competetive total often. they are unrecognisable by a long way from their first version. Would you mind commenting on the fact that Vijay's go to shot is across the line hoick or that he can't even rotate the strike consistently? Development is all fine but you got to have something more than a leg side hoick as your bread and better shot. In fact I find Rohit Sharma to be a much better bet to "develop" than Vijay - at least Rohit doesn't rely one one particular shot and with experience if he learns to have a better judgement regarding shot selection he would be the one India would be able to rely on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 UG you are exaggerating when you claim the Hoick is Vijay's bread and butter shot. He has played some nice gems in tests so far and no I don't think his best shot was that hoick which he employs in T20s quite effectively due to PP rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 UG you are exaggerating when you claim the Hoick is Vijay's bread and butter shot. He has played some nice gems in tests so far and no I don't think his best shot was that hoick which he employs in T20s quite effectively due to PP rules. As I said in my earlier post Murali Vijay is a great prospect for Tests in the sense he can wait for the loose ball and capitalize on it. He can play all round the wicket but the thing is in the shorter format if there are no loose balls on offer his go to shot is the across the line hit towards leg. He's not like Sehwag or Yuvraj who can score off good balls or even like Gambhir or Kohli who can keep the strike rotating. Vijay has to find less risky shots to score off consistently. I mean look at most of his high scores in shorter format and you will know what I'm saying - his wagon wheel will have all the big shots in the arc between widish long on and mid wicket. In the Tests Vijay doesn't have to bother with the shot as he can bide his time and is able to score when he gets the loose ball. But in the shorter format and at intl level, you will need to learn how to score off the good balls and that's where I see a deficiency in Murali Vijay's game and that's what he needs to work on in domestic cricket or on A tours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saneindian Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Jadeja was out of the team for his inability to hit the 4s and 6s. The lad has worked hard on his game, added more muscle and seems to have added a lot of power to his shots (so what if it is IPL). Instead of appreciating it, why would you bash a youngster is beyond me. Vijay's IPL success in fact has ended up confusing him. When he played in that series vs Aus in 2008, and in domestic matches, he was an elegant player perfectly suited for test cricket. He modified his technique, added a few more shots to his armoury (the hoick) and that tranformed his career. But that slight technical change now gives him the trouble at international cricket especially in ODIs and t20s. He hasn't quite figured out his approach in the shorter formats. Also, you need to be realistic in your expectations with some of these IPL success stories. In IPL you face a bowling attack which has at best one and a half world class bowlers. Not so in international cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngindia Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Would you mind commenting on the fact that Vijay's go to shot is across the line hoick or that he can't even rotate the strike consistently? you are speaking as if these qualities are inbuilt or permanent.its a totally flawed understanding man. nobody on this planet is born a full fledged shotmaker or great milker of singles.only potential is there at first. yet again you fail to notice how vijay evolved and that's the reason you failed to understand it. you obviously didn't notice how he failed to make any impact in 2009 and one year later he ended up as key player for CSK in the IPL and CL. Ppl before IPL 2010 were claiming that vijay was a test batsman and all that. that is the context under which you have to see his IPL 2010 performances. His shotmaking was starting to develop in that season .he was using the hoick to the leg side as a reliable shot to hurt bowlers. in match situations , you tend to use shots you have confidence in. It gave him lot of results as well some pain. its just a stock shot that stood him in good stead in that one season. full fledged shotmaking is not easy, its takes time and practise.in 2010, he was just starting to come into his own as a shotmaker. If you see his knock against rajasthan for example, he had a deft touch off tait over third man for six, hoisted watson over long off, lifted warne straight . in the CL, there was a full toss, he upper cut over third man off siddle. This season, i haven't noticed too much of the same tactics . In the knock against punjab, there were lot of shots on the off side. he was picking the gaps a lot better than he used to last year and driving more fluently.so what are you talkin about? As he matures as a shotmaker, he will abandon the use of that one tactic.and in my mind he has already done that. you are showing "first impression is the best impression syndrome" instead of understanding a player is growing. As for his singles in ODI, you are joking. several players including dravid (especially) have faced it before. these are not inbuilt or permanent capabilities. i am happy with how he is rotating strike in this IPL. Its just that issues has been identified in his first look at ODI's. he needs time to work on those issues.prematurely harping on issues without giving time for a solution is pointless. what have you and those backing you have demonstrated? backing those who do relatviely well intheir first year and domestics?: you are just demonstrating love for meaningless and often misguiding numbers than an eye for quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Agree fully... if guys like Valthaty or Manish Pandey make it to intl team solely on IPL form' date=' it would make a mockery of domestic cricket. IPL is good for getting you the limelight but you still have to perform at the domestic level. That's why I will put guys like Uthappa ahead on the list as they have performed at the domestic level. IPL may be used for fast-tracking domestic players in some cases but not to the extent that domestic cricket is totally ignored.[/quote'] Manish Panday has done well at domestic level too. Check his record. he had major role Karnataka reaching final of ranji 2009-2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Nope I learn from mistakes... here's my logic and I would love to hear yours' 1. IPL 1 and IPL 2 - Jadeja and Vijay in amazing form, scoring heavily against everyone in IPL 2. Jadeja and Vijay picked for T20 Cups 3. They fared miserably and were found out at intl level and no surprizes India crashed out without even a single win in super 6s 4. Jadeja and Vijay score heavily and perform well in IPL 4 Now I believe in the adage "Definition of lunacy is doing the same thing and expecting different results" and that's why I won't follow the earlier loop indefinitely coz I have been there and seen the results. I would monitor how Jadeja and Vijay perform at the domestic level before giving them a chance at intl level again. In the meantime I will opt for somebody like Uthappa who has at least performed at intl level, has performed well enough in the domestic cricket and seems to have improved his game in shorter format. Based on this logic you tell me why guys like Vijay or Jadeja deserve a spot ahead of folks like Uthappa? VIjay didnt do wlel in IPL 1 and IPL2..it was IPL 3 last year where he did well and he was picked before that to play test matches against Australia. Jadeja didnt even play IPL3. Jadeja has been a prolific wicket taker and run scorer in first class cricket. Only MS Gony is the player who chosen to play solely on IPL performance that was IPL1. and who would you choose than for T20 matches for India Pujara and Rahane who are not even good enough to play T20. IPL is indian domestic T20 tournament and is the criteria to select players for T20 teams for India. You will chose T20 team based on FC cricket and chose Pujara and Rahaane..they are not good enough for international I tell you whatever I have seen of them, not good for tests too, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Agree fully... if guys like Valthaty or Manish Pandey make it to intl team solely on IPL form' date=' it would make a mockery of domestic cricket. Id.[/quote'] I thought IPL was a domestic tournament . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 @UG SAURABH Tiwary also falls in that list he is a slogger IMO he had an average of 98 in 2009 Ranji trophy...what do you? Most of the guys played for India have done well at the domestic level. Don't write anything without thinking about it. Get your facts right first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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