Varun Aaron (the most hyped fast bowler) perfomance watch thread

[express bowling]

Aaron can swing the ball both ways. I can recall atleast 3 outswingers and 3 inswingers ( small deviations for indippers ) in the last match. He does not always chose to swing the ball and has succeeded in beating the batsmen by pace and bounce. I would have been ok with Vinay if either PK or Munaf were not selected. Picking 3 gentle paced seamers does not make sense.

[express bowling]

Ishant's drop in pace during 2009-10 may be due to Manoj Prabhakar. When Ishant was bowling between 140 to 150k, Prabhakar became the coach of Delhi, Ishant's domestic side. I remember reading an interview where Manoj had said that Ishant's problem is he always tries to bowl 140k and that's why he does not get much swing. He would work with him and talk to him regarding this aspect. -- I remember that I was filled with trepidition that Ishant would lose his pace and it happened within 3 months. Lamboo changed his bowling style, forgot his short of good length balls and was pitching the ball up and trying to swing it at 130 to 135k. Well... he did not learn to swing the ball consistently and dropped his pace. Thankfully he is back to bowling using his old style of shorter length with pace and bounce and is getting wickets regularly with better economy rates. He is consistently clocking 140 to 146k with a few deliveries between 147 to 152k even. This could be due to interactions with Dale Steyn who is a modern and intelligent fast bowler and knows what needs to be done to get wickets at international level. We in India should give up trying to change fast bowlers to swing bowlers and vice versa or teaching an outswing bowler to bowl inswing overnight. Bowlers will develop but with time and fast changes to bowling styles should never be resorted to as has happened with Ishant or Irfan Pathan.

[saneindian]

^ Not Steyn, but looks like its his bowling coach who has made the difference. Read this bit After being ignored for the World Cup, the pacer spent a lot of time in the gym, and the rewards are there to see. While he was bowling in the mid-130s during the South Africa tour, he is clocking high-140s in the IPL. “He worked extremely hard when he missed the World Cup. He bowled in the nets for close to two hours everyday and spent a lot of time in the gym as well," said coach, Sanjay Bharadwaj, at whose academy Ishant worked out after returning from South Africa. Besides, a technical flaw too was troubling the paceman. "His body was falling on his delivery stride. This was making it difficult to maintain line and length. We did quite a few drills and asked him to speak to (India) bowling coach, Eric Simons, about it. Thankfully, he's sorted it out," said Bharadwaj. http://www.hindustantimes.com/Opportunity-beckons-a-stronger-Ishant/Article1-697216.aspx

[yoda]

He is better than Vinay Kumar, that's for sure.

[rkt.india]

Umesh was picked for the Zim tri series, did not do anything then sent to the tour of Sri Lanka as an additional bowler, got picked for the Rest of India team , did not do anything, got picked for Indian Board President's 11, did not do much, picked in the challenger trophy teams, did not do much again, picked for SA tour, team management did not have enough faith in him to play him. Now thats 6 -7 months of consistent backing by the selectors. Wonder why you are blaming the selectors. About your theory of dropped catches and all that crap which IMO is absolutely asinine, well playing in plate wicket, shouldn't taking wickets be an easier task as you play against the likes of J&K, Tripura, Goa, Services etc? Even if for a moment , I do belive in your theory, do a similar maths for someone like Pankaj Singh, he would have picked 60-70 wickets in a season!! Why not get him ahead of everyone eelse then?

Pankaj Singh is not a genuine pacer. Edges does not come fast on his bowling to slip and keeper. Look at what happened yesterday, keepers and slip fielders do not have experience of collecting the ball from genuine pacers. Yesterday, Naman Ojha spilled a straight forward catch of Aaron's bowling and Dinesh Karthik was the batsman who scored 27 then because it went too fast. This is how catches are dropped by slip fielders and keepers in FC cricket because ball comes too fast. This is not the case with Pankaj Singh. and I tell you they will not improve in FC cricket.

[saneindian]

Pankaj Singh is not a genuine pacer. Edges does not come fast on his bowling to slip and keeper. Look at what happened yesterday, keepers and slip fielders do not have experience of collecting the ball from genuine pacers. Yesterday, Naman Ojha spilled a straight forward catch of Aaron's bowling and Dinesh Karthik was the batsman who scored 27 then because it went too fast. This is how catches are dropped by slip fielders and keepers in FC cricket because ball comes too fast. This is not the case with Pankaj Singh. and I tell you they will not improve in FC cricket.

Some of your theories are quite bizzarre really. Again, I will show you the stats showing how many of Pankaj's wickets were caught in slips or by the keeper and then you will change your tune again to give another of those wierd theories. Obviously, you have a bias against all the medium pacers but think that anyone with 140+ pace should be in Indian team. Someone with pace can improve but those bowling in mid 130s can never improve. While that support for pacers is good to see, I do not quite agree with you rubbishing the medium pacers.

[rkt.india]

Some of your theories are quite bizzarre really. Again, I will show you the stats showing how many of Pankaj's wickets were caught in slips or by the keeper and then you will change your tune again to give another of those wierd theories. Obviously, you have a bias against all the medium pacers but think that anyone with 140+ pace should be in Indian team. Someone with pace can improve but those bowling in mid 130s can never improve. While that support for pacers is good to see, I do not quite agree with you rubbishing the medium pacers.

You can say I am biased, but this is a universal truth. There are very few bowlers who started at 130 and ended at 130 and are great as well, someone like Shaun Pollock who all his life bowled in SA or Kapil Dev who emerged as one of the best alrounder, but who after that. I consider if someone bowls at 130-135, he should be a bit tall as a pacer that increases the chances of succeeding Munaf who is 6 feet 3 more than Vinay who is 5 feet 8 inch tall only because of the bounce Munaf get from good length. And if some bowler is not tall, he needs to be at least high 130s or more than that. I didnt say Pankaj does get caught behind. he gets extra bounce because of his height but those edges dont fly quickly like in case of any genuine pacer so you need quick reflexes as a keeper or a slip fielder when ball comes fast towards you as an edge. Pankaj Singh's edge comes at a good pace for them to easily hold on to that and do not compare RR to Jharkhand or Vidarbha. Their standards are too low. You would seen Vidarbha batsman play Aaron in Vijay Hazaare trophy and top order batsmen were looking like tailenders against Aaron. You have also seen Ishank Jaggi who was called to be one of the best batsman of Jharkhand how his play looked like a tailender in this IPL.

[Ultimate_Game]

Joginder has as good a record as him in FC. Never go for stats...MItchell Johnson and Ryan Harris dont have as good an FC record as Jogi' date=' but will you say Jogi is better than them.[/quote'] Jogi is a legend! Pls don't compare him with ordinary trundlers like Johnson and Harris. Out of the 3 Jogi is the only bowler who has won a World Cup :icflove:

[vishalvirsingh]

There was a batsmen called W V Raman who was talented but he failed miserably in international Cricket.....ther ws this most talented legspinner india ever produced Laxman Siva who had a useless international career. Its quite a huge surprise that we have 3 trundlers and one genuine fast bowler in indian team to west indies, if windies offers india type wickets which have a bit for medium pace swing bowlers tha Praveen n Vinay will definitely Exploit and Munaf wl get the ball to rise from good lengTh and will fetch some wickets but if windies have just pacy tracks then we wud have jst one guy to exploit Ishant . Spinners are World class Bhajji is GoD of spin specially for one days as today possibly only sehwag and Gayle can hit him and I wud say Gayle may also get fooled...Bhajji is too tuf n hot to handle and ashwin is a little leSs dangerous but still Good and Mishra is in Sublime form what ever he touches turns Gold....we shud have got Varun or Umesh instead of Vinay or even Praveen as I feel Praveen is not 100 percent Fit. I have seen him feeling lethargic on field, if he is not 100 percent. Fit he needs to rest

[express bowling]

The problem with medium pacers is that they can succeed only under certain conditions and lose all their potency if the ball is not moving around. Faster bowlers, especially those who have pace, bounce and movement, can suceed in different situations. That is why true strike bowlers among pacers have had either pace or bounce or both along with some movement. That is why it is equally pointless in packing the side with fast bowlers without any movement. I would only take 1 or 2 to soften the batsmen on a flat pitch. I would only promote a medium pacer if he can swing the ball under most conditions, like Irfan Pathan in his early days. Only then would I pick a medium pacer and do so gladly. There is no point in choosing mediocracy with glee.

[Ultimate_Game]

There was a batsmen called W V Raman who was talented but he failed miserably in international Cricket.....ther ws this most talented legspinner india ever produced Laxman Siva who had a useless international career. Its quite a huge surprise that we have 3 trundlers and one genuine fast bowler in indian team to west indies, if windies offers india type wickets which have a bit for medium pace swing bowlers tha Praveen n Vinay will definitely Exploit and Munaf wl get the ball to rise from good lengTh and will fetch some wickets but if windies have just pacy tracks then we wud have jst one guy to exploit Ishant . Spinners are World class Bhajji is GoD of spin specially for one days as today possibly only sehwag and Gayle can hit him and I wud say Gayle may also get fooled...Bhajji is too tuf n hot to handle and ashwin is a little leSs dangerous but still Good and Mishra is in Sublime form what ever he touches turns Gold....we shud have got Varun or Umesh instead of Vinay or even Praveen as I feel Praveen is not 100 percent Fit. I have seen him feeling lethargic on field, if he is not 100 percent. Fit he needs to rest

I don't know how you got that about bhajji. He was outbowled even by Yuvi and wasn't better than Ashwin. Bhajji doesn't run through batting sides and is neither economical enough generally going for 50 odd in his 10 overs. I would have rested him for the series and taken Rahul Sharma to WI instead.

[vishalvirsingh]

I don't know how you got that about bhajji. He was outbowled even by Yuvi and wasn't better than Ashwin. Bhajji doesn't run through batting sides and is neither economical enough generally going for 50 odd in his 10 overs. I would have rested him for the series and taken Rahul Sharma to WI instead.

Bhajji would have declared himself available for WI.. in that case selectors wont pick Rahul ahead of BHajji ...and BHajji may not be india's best spinner in a test Match as I feel he has become a defensive bowler now but the SARDAR from Patiala is definitely india's No 1 spinner for a T 20 or a 1 day international.. Just see he was asked to open Mumbai Indian bowling with Malinga and see his economy ---dangerous..sardar is dreadful in limited over cricket. mind u i am bhajji's biggest critic for his selection in test matches - i would never pick him as India 's best 2 spinner for a test match .. i wud say aswin is definitely better than BHAJJI for test Matches and even a few more...BHajji is defensive ...saves runs and if batsmen is fine not to score much of him , he can survive against him...his doosra is not as effective as ashwin's.

[vishalvirsingh]

Pankaj Singh is not a genuine pacer. Edges does not come fast on his bowling to slip and keeper. Look at what happened yesterday, keepers and slip fielders do not have experience of collecting the ball from genuine pacers. Yesterday, Naman Ojha spilled a straight forward catch of Aaron's bowling and Dinesh Karthik was the batsman who scored 27 then because it went too fast. This is how catches are dropped by slip fielders and keepers in FC cricket because ball comes too fast. This is not the case with Pankaj Singh. and I tell you they will not improve in FC cricket.

Varun has been IMPRESSIVE to say the least..... But Umesh Has disappointed to say the least.... though both r equally fast but one has some control over his bowling and the other looks to have least amount of control and hardly any good yorkers....only surprise is that the experienced guy is flopping.... WHY ??? is the million dollar question.

[King Tendulkar]

ishant speeds have dropped again. Maybe that game wer clocked 150 was a speed gun fault. Since then been at 135 with odd ball clocking 140

[rkt.india]

ishant speeds have dropped again. Maybe that game wer clocked 150 was a speed gun fault. Since then been at 135 with odd ball clocking 140

I think he is till consistently bowling 140 plus with few down and a few up to 145K...yesertday I watched and he bowled between 135k-145k...this is his pace range normally in this IPL.

[saneindian]

Ishant IMO should not be playing the shorter format yet. Yesterday the commentators were pointing out how his body has again started to fall away at the point of delivery. That was a major concern with Ishant's bowling action in the last 12-18 months. Not sure why we are rushing him to ODI formats so quickly. Would be much better off with letting him focus on tests for the while.

[rkt.india]

ishant speeds have dropped again. Maybe that game wer clocked 150 was a speed gun fault. Since then been at 135 with odd ball clocking 140

I think he is till consistently bowling 140 plus with few down and a few up to 145K...yesterday I watched and he bowled between 135k-145k...this is his pace range normally in this IPL.

[rkt.india]

Ishant IMO should not be playing the shorter format yet. Yesterday the commentators were pointing out how his body has again started to fall away at the point of delivery. That was a major concern with Ishant's bowling action in the last 12-18 months. Not sure why we are rushing him to ODI formats so quickly. Would be much better off with letting him focus on tests for the while.

Simon Doul was talking about his release and wrist position while delivering as to why he bowls in swingers. They were comparing Ishant and Styen and was talking why Ishant cannot bowl out swingers. Problem with what Doul was talking about is Ishant and STyen both are different style of bowlers. Steyn cannot bowl in swingers that Ishant can bowl and Ishant cannot be Steyn. There is no problem in Ishant's action right now. You are wrong his body is not falling right now. He is doing well. The problem with Ishant started when tried to bowl like Styen. I saw the change in his style when it happened first time in T20 WC in England after IPL2 in SA. After IPL2, he made some changed to his bowling style to be able to bowl out swingers like Styen, but he started to fall towards left side and his wrist position also gone wrong. Writs was not behind the ball because to get any movement or pace behind the ball, he needed to have the wrist behind the seam of the ball and hit the seam on the deck. He was not doing this. One and a half to 2 years, he bowled with this changed style but it didn't work because he neither could get right line and length by falling towards left side and also lost his big in swingers he used to bowl. But after SA test series, he went to his old bowling coach in Delhi and talked about his problems. His coach said you need to watch your old videos and remember when you bowled at your best. Then he said to him and that I had made some changed to my bowling style and after that I could not bowl that well. His coach then asked him to go back to his old style of bowling and then now he is back to his old bowling style like he bowled in 2008 to mid 2009 before the T20 WC in England started. Remember, he was the man of the series in home test series against Australia. And Simon Doul was asking him to change his style again yesterday to be able to bowl out swingers like Styen, but that is not his strength. His Strength is to get bounce and those in swingers and in between he also gets the ball to move away from the batsman time and again, which keeps the batsmen guessing all the time. His unpredictability is his strength in terms of movement.

[express bowling]

ishant speeds have dropped again. Maybe that game wer clocked 150 was a speed gun fault. Since then been at 135 with odd ball clocking 140

In most matches Ishant's top pace has been 146.5k+ ( I can rememeber atleast 6 such matches ). In 1 match his top speed was 148k +. In almost every match he has bowled lots of deliveries between 143kph to 145kph. There has been only 2 matches out of the 11 he has played where he has generally bowled between 134 to 142k. In 1 match the speed gun was not working. The match where he clocked 152k+ with 7 deliveries above 150k cannot be taken as his general pace. But who else has done that apart from Tait. Even Steyn and Morkel has touched 150k in only 1 or 2 matches each and have generally bowled between 135k to 148k. Ishant's general pace in this IPL can be said to be consistently between 137k to 146.5k and he is still maintaining that.

[saneindian]

Simon Doul was talking about his release and wrist position while delivering as to why he bowls in swingers. They were comparing Ishant and Styen and was talking why Ishant cannot bowl out swingers. Problem with what Doul was talking about is Ishant and STyen both are different style of bowlers. Steyn cannot bowl in swingers that Ishant can bowl and Ishant cannot be Steyn. There is no problem in Ishant's action right now. You are wrong his body is not falling right now. He is doing well. The problem with Ishant started when tried to bowl like Styen. I saw the change in his style when it happened first time in T20 WC in England after IPL2 in SA. After IPL2, he made some changed to his bowling style to be able to bowl out swingers like Styen, but he started to fall towards left side and his wrist position also gone wrong. Writs was not behind the ball because to get any movement or pace behind the ball, he needed to have the wrist behind the seam of the ball and hit the seam on the deck. He was not doing this. One and a half to 2 years, he bowled with this changed style but it didn't work because he neither could get right line and length by falling towards left side and also lost his big in swingers he used to bowl. But after SA test series, he went to his old bowling coach in Delhi and talked about his problems. His coach said you need to watch your old videos and remember when you bowled at your best. Then he said to him and that I had made some changed to my bowling style and after that I could not bowl that well. His coach then asked him to go back to his old style of bowling and then now he is back to his old bowling style like he bowled in 2008 to mid 2009 before the T20 WC in England started. Remember, he was the man of the series in home test series against Australia. And Simon Doul was asking him to change his style again yesterday to be able to bowl out swingers like Styen, but that is not his strength. His Strength is to get bounce and those in swingers and in between he also gets the ball to move away from the batsman time and again, which keeps the batsmen guessing all the time. His unpredictability is his strength in terms of movement.

Look he has worked with his coach many times in the last 18 months, with the coach saying his technical faults have been rectified for the problems to resurface again. He did that before the domestic season this year, did that before the SL tour last year, but playing shorter formats ended up spoiling his action again. For someone as precious as him who is a potential leader of our test bowling attack, it will not be a bad idea to keep him away from the shorter formats for sometime. let him regain his confidence while playing the test matches, giving him time to mature further and then only starts playing him in ODIs 6-9 months later or perhaps even later. The same holds true even for Sreesanth. Both of the 'Sanths are our first choice test match bowlers and should not be playing shorter formats for sometime. Our ODI bowling attack till then can be managed by the likes of PK, Munna, Vinay, Dinda, Ashwin, Bhajji etc.