Best fast bowling pair ever?

[Lurker]

Between Amby and Mcgrath, Ambrose was the bowler most batsmen would hate to face. He had everything Mcgrath had..and an extra 10 yards of pace. Plus was lot taller and had extremely powerful wrist...two balls delivered with exact same action would travel at 135 and 145 without any apparent change in action. Super bowler Amby was. Mcgrath too. However Mcgrath's greatness lies in the fact that he would walk the talk. Deliver against the top batsmen, often after having said that he would get them. In that sense Mcgrath was peerless. Amby did not say much(did not really had to) and at the time he played he was the most feared bowler in the world..a time when Donald, Wasim, Mcgrath, Walsh all played. xxx

[gator]

Amby did not say much(did not really had to) and at the time he played he was the most feared bowler in the world..a time when Donald, Wasim, Mcgrath, Walsh all played.

spot on, Lurks... he literally towered over other greats.... i dont even have to depend on stats... pure pleasure, watching all of his career...

[CC1981]

In terms of pure effectiveness, i'd rate fast bowling pairs as follows ( tests only): 1. Marshall-Holding 2. Lindwall-Miller 3. Ambrose-Walsh 4. Wasim-Waqar 5. Holding-Roberts 6. Trueman-Statham 7. Donald-Pollock 8. Lillee-Thommo 9. Bishop-Ambrose 10. Botham-Willis

[Rahul]

mcgraw is peerless. no way amby can tie pidge's shoelaces. and the simple difference is ORDNUNG. i have seen bunch of spells from amby where he just threw it outside off, short of length. prolly amby never talked, but pidge has walked the talk and talked the walk... pidge over amby, any fricking day...

[Rahul]

In terms of pure effectiveness, i'd rate fast bowling pairs as follows ( tests only): 1. Marshall-Holding 2. Lindwall-Miller 3. Ambrose-Walsh 4. Wasim-Waqar 5. Holding-Roberts 6. Trueman-Statham 7. Donald-Pollock 8. Lillee-Thommo 9. Bishop-Ambrose 10. Botham-Willis

where is pathan-zaks?? ROTFL

[CC1981]

Between Amby and Mcgrath, Ambrose was the bowler most batsmen would hate to face. He had everything Mcgrath had..and an extra 10 yards of pace. Plus was lot taller and had extremely powerful wrist...two balls delivered with exact same action would travel at 135 and 145 without any apparent change in action. Super bowler Amby was. Mcgrath too. However Mcgrath's greatness lies in the fact that he would walk the talk. Deliver against the top batsmen, often after having said that he would get them. In that sense Mcgrath was peerless. Amby did not say much(did not really had to) and at the time he played he was the most feared bowler in the world..a time when Donald, Wasim, Mcgrath, Walsh all played. xxx

Amby wasn't a lot taller than McGrath-maybe an inch or two.Pidge is surprisingly tall but Amby & Walsh looked taller because they had really long legs. Amby didnt bowl much in the sub-continent and the little he bowled, he wasnt very successful either ( ie, Lillee type) and that is the only area McGrath comprehensively trumps Amby. McGrath also cuts the ball more than Amby does after pitching but Amby always had superior bounce than McGrath and his accuracy,if anything, was tremendous. Amby when he grew too old to bowl fast ( he had serious knee issues near the end of his career), his accuracy and bounce would still come to his rescue and he'd bottle up one end like nobody. figures like 20-12-10-1 type was Amby nearing the end of his road. Second best WI pacer ever after Marshall IMO. Overall, it must be said that while OZ, PAK, RSA are all the strongest pace attacks today, nobody matches the overall depth of pace the WI have had. OZ comes close but i don't think OZ has had as many bowlers in the level of Wes Hall, Amby, Walsh,Marshall, Holding, Roberts, Bishop, Garner, Croft etc.

[kumble_rocks]

McGrath also cuts the ball more than Amby does after pitching but Amby always had superior bounce than McGrath and his accuracy,if anything, was tremendous. Amby when he grew too old to bowl fast ( he had serious knee issues near the end of his career), his accuracy and bounce would still come to his rescue and he'd bottle up one end like nobody. figures like 20-12-10-1 type was Amby nearing the end of his road. Second best WI pacer ever after Marshall IMO.

Amby did not swing the ball much unlike Marshall or Roberts . I remember an interview by Andy Roberts wherein he was commenting on the fact that if only Ambrose could swing the ball , he would have been the greatest bowler ever. This was right after the serious knee issues near the end of his career which you are alluding to. You are right about accuracy. If anything , Amby was even more accurate than Mcgrath and he had this nagging outside the off stump line just short of good length. Although he didn't bowl outswingers regularly , he could hold the line of the ball very well just like J Srinath. This would confuse lot of batsmen who played for the incoming delivery.

[CC1981]

mcgraw is peerless. no way amby can tie pidge's shoelaces. and the simple difference is ORDNUNG. i have seen bunch of spells from amby where he just threw it outside off, short of length. prolly amby never talked, but pidge has walked the talk and talked the walk... pidge over amby, any fricking day...

I can't believe you said that. Amby never talked but he exuded a fiery menace that unsettled every batsman facing him. Pidge might've run his mouth a lot and backed it up most of the time but i prefer the silent assassin type pacer. Mind you, Ambrose was as terrible as anyone to piss off. Who can remember a bowler so consistently rising to the challenge and turning into Kali when slighted by the opposition with such terrifying regularity as Ambrose ? The reason nobody ****-talked Ambrose is because every facking time someone did, Amby would bring forth the kalki-avatar version. Dean Jones, Steve Waugh, Graeme Hick, Atherton, etc. all found out to their utter folly, the very same day, what is the price of annoying King Curtley. Common understanding was if you want to gift Ambrose a five-fer against your team, go ****-talk him into doing it. Amby was no stranger to a challenge either and if anything Ambrose had had to bowl with his back to the wall far far more often than Pidge because most of Ambrose's career coincided with the demise of the WI batting juggernaut. While Pidge bowling in the 4th innings would look up and routinely see a target of 350+ for the opposition, Ambrose's case would see the opposition looking for 200-250. Plus Aussie bowling had/has a lot more depth than the WI bowling of the 90s - once Bishop's waqar-like form deserted him due to spine fractures, WI were literally a two-man unit. Sure, you can say the same about McWarne but not to the same extent- while OZ had very reliable and workman-like bowlers in the mould of Gillespie , Fleming & Reiffel, along with erratic but adequate bowlers like McGill and Lee, WI had literally nobody apart from Walsh & Ambrose through the 90s. Bishop made a short comeback but he was a pale shadow and not much different than Indian pacers. McGrath bowls a bit better than Ambrose with the old ball, because he moves the ball more than Ambrose but Ambrose with the new-ball is better than McGrath on almost every surface. Note that while McGrath may be slightly more versatile than Ambrose ( the subcontinent factor) on playing surfaces, Ambrose was downright unplayable and monstrous on some surfaces ( WACA, Brisbane, Barbados, Jamaica, Headingley etc). Even the Aussies, who pride themselves in not tampering the pitch harsh to suit the opposition were berating CA for keeping Perth as a venue when Amby was still around.

[CC1981]

Btw, one measure of Ambrose is the fact that he utterly dominated Australia (the strongest-batting lineup overall in the 90s) throughout his career. Of the 90s lot, Ambrose and Wasim are the only two bowlers the Aussies feared. Walsh was a bit one-dimensional ( no outswinger whatsoever) to bother the Aussies, who'd take an off-stump guard and nullify Walsh to a large extent. Waqar was too erratic and Donald, Pollock had the 'saffie mental block' in place vs the Aussies. But while Wasim declined against the Aussies in the latter half of his career, Ambrose was always peerless. Against a batting lineup (in the late 80s/full 90s) that featured batsmen like Dean Jones, Alan Border, David Boone, Steve Waugh, Mark Waugh, Mark Taylor, Ricky Ponting, Damien Martyn, Langer, Gillchrist etc, Ambrose ended up with 128 wickets in 27 matches @ 21.23 with 8 five-fers and 1 10-fer. If anything, his performance IN Australia is even more magnificient- 14 matches, 78 wickets @ 19.79, 6 five-fers, 1 10-fer. Nobody has dominated the Aussies like Ambrose had as a pace bowler ever. Incidentally, his figures vs this extremely strong Aussie lot is superior to that of any bowler apart from Joel Garner in the last 50 years of test cricket. And it is indisputable that Ambrose faced a far stronger Aussie lineup throughout his career than Garner did. Not only that, Ambrose was super consistent vs the Aussies too. Only had one bad series vs the Aussies ( 1990/91 in the caribbean, 18 wickets in 5 matches @ 27.38). His series vs OZ were : 26 wickets @ 21.46, the 'bad series', 33 wickets @ 16.42, 13 wickets @ 19.84, 19 wickets @ 23.36, 19 wickets @ 22.26 His worst series vs OZ (18 wickets in 5 tests @ 27.38) is better than the BEST-EVER series vs OZ by any Indian pacer in the last 20 years i think ! Truely a giant in every sense. Oh and another evidence of Ambrose's dominance in being a miser : his ODI economy rate is 3.48 ! thats less than 35 runs every match bowling full quota on average ! True, ODI scores in the 90s were a lot less on average than today ( when 250 used to be a winning score) and while the Wasims, McGraths and Donalds of the world all had economy rates averaging between 3.8 and 4+, Amby was far far better !

[The Outsider]

His worst series vs OZ (18 wickets in 5 tests @ 27.38) is better than the BEST-EVER series vs OZ by any Indian pacer in the last 20 years i think !

Kapil had a very good series in '91-'92 picking up 25 wickets in 5 tests. Dont remember the average but couldn't have been very high because it wasn't a very high scoring series. As for Ambrose and McGrath, I would pick McGrath over Ambrose without batting an eyelid. Performed everywhere in the world, against every batting lineup, dominated every top batsman of his era. No bowler, except Marshall, can lay claim to having such an unblemished record.

[Gambit]

Although Amby would be a sentimental choice as he was my favourite bowler of the 90s, as a captain I would pick McGrath 11 times out of 10.

[CC1981]

As for Ambrose and McGrath, I would pick McGrath over Ambrose without batting an eyelid. Performed everywhere in the world, against every batting lineup, dominated every top batsman of his era. No bowler, except Marshall, can lay claim to having such an unblemished record.

Ambrose most definitely can. And McGrath cannot claim to've dominated a battling lineup of the Aussie callibre for such a prolonged period as Ambrose has. Remember, McGrath has not played as many tests vs India as Amby has against OZ..and i don't consider the IND batting lineup ( famous four + 2 nobodys) as better against pace than the OZ battling lineup of the 90s and now. Ambrose too dominated every top batsman of his era. Even Tendulkar at his peak played Ambrose with utmost respect - while he sometimes tore apart McGrath. Only blemish to his record is India and not having played in India- but he genuinely was injured in the 93/94 tour of India and the WI were not frequent in their touring of India in the 90s-to now era. McGrath is an alltime great bowler and i can understand when people pick him over Ambrose but Ambrose too is an alltime great bowler, very very close to McGrath and its grossly unfair to him ( and downright ludicrous) to day that McGrath over Ambrose without batting an eyelid or every day of the week etc. It is very evident actually that if the surface favoured pace and bounce, Ambrose over McGrath would be no question. The only surface where i'd pick McGrath over Ambrose is slow surfaces with no bounce. Even on a spinning but not very slow track like Bangalore or Calcutta,i'd prefer Ambrose in my lineup than McGrath. Ie, if its Feroz Shah Kotla or Galle, then i'd pick McGrath over Ambrose. I'd personally take Ambrose because he'd fit better with my overall bowling lineup plans than McGrath. Anything McGrath can do, Hadlee could satisfy without a problem. And Hadlee brings in a ton of batting.

[THX_1138]

Me and Rahul Patel (cook road walla since we have a cullen oaks walla rahul patel as well)... ideal combination of pace and control. good lower order batsmen and great fielders too.... now only if we were in the good books of sharad pawar...

[Gaurav]

If I had to pick two bowlers from the same country (modern era) then they would be- Marshal and Holding. Btw I rate Ambrose/Walsh higher than Imran and co. MgfY2VNbv7s w-f5pfBgpNE

[chanakya]

Ambrose and Walsh vs the aussies in WI. I remember something about the scorecard something like a wicket every 10 runs. 1-0 (Elliott, 0.2 ov), 2-12 (Langer, 5.5 ov), 3-35 (Slater, 15.3 ov), 4-46 (Gillespie, 19.3 ov), 5-48 (ME Waugh, 22.3 ov), 6-73 (SR Waugh, 29.5 ov), 7-81 (Healy, 34.4 ov

[CC1981]

Btw I rate Ambrose/Walsh higher than Imran and co.

Ambrose i can understand- i consider him in top 5 pacers ever but Walsh ? Hell no. Imran, Wasim & Waqar any day over Walsh.

[King]

Marshall, Wasim, Hadlee, McGrath and Ambrose would be the top 5 for me in no order.

[THX_1138]

Roger Binny and Maninder Singh

[Gaurav]

Cheetan Sharma and Madan Lal :hysterical:

[Cricketics]

btw all those discussing on ambrose.. i have this gr8 series windies tour of aus 1992 5 test match series highlites.. all 5 test matches there. if anyone needs it then i will upload it.. ambrose was on fire in that series.. windies won that series under the captain of richie richardson.. it was one hell of a series.. if more curious about that series, then chk cricinfo and find that series page, chk scorecards.. 4th test windies won by 1 run