ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 The MMRCA (Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft) is the largest defence deal done by us till date to accquire 126 combat aircraft. Out of 6, two fighter jets have been shortlisted - The Eurofighter Typhoon V/s Dassault Rafale. A mod at IndianDefence.com has done a detailed analysis on these two aircrafts and concludes the Eurofighter has an edge over the Rafale. http://www.indiandefence.com/forums/f7/eurofighter-typhoon-v-s-dassault-rafale-analysis-6127/ Along with the existing SU-30MKI and the in development indigenous Tejas LCA :isalute:, the acquisition of one of these two aircraft would make IAF quite powerful and capable to meeting the China challenge too. Eurofighter Typhoon Dassault Rafale
achilles Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Typhoon looks compact. As for Tejas, I've got an interesting tidbit. In 2003, I had gone to the NDA. They had put up a model of Tejas back then and told us that it is India's first indegenious attempt at matching the world's LCA fleet. It is 2011. And we are still developing it! So its superiority is anyone's guess.
ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 Typhoon looks compact. As for Tejas, I've got an interesting tidbit. In 2003, I had gone to the NDA. They had put up a model of Tejas back then and told us that it is India's first indegenious attempt at matching the world's LCA fleet. It is 2011. And we are still developing it! So its superiority is anyone's guess. Tejas has been delayed many times but now its been given IOC few months back. Next year or by 2013 we will will have Tejas inducted in the IAF. Sad part is that isnt fully indigenous and we are using American engine for it. But no worries, once the indigenous Kaveri engine is ready, Tejas will be almost fully Indian :isalute:
Sidhoni Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 :isalute: :isalute: Waiting for Tejas from a long time now....
panther Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 whats the best fighter aircraft that the Chinese have
ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 whats the best fighter aircraft that the Chinese have China is developing the Chengdu J-20 which is a fifth generation aircraft. It is still in development though. Currently they have the J-10 which is also a 4th gen and quite advanced aircraft. It can be compared to Su-30 that India have
ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 :isalute: :isalute: Waiting for Tejas from a long time now.... :dito: Tejas should have been in the IAF by now.
Guest Gunner Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 China is developing the Chengdu J-20 which is a fifth generation aircraft. It is still in development though. Currently they have the J-10 which is also a 4th gen and quite advanced aircraft. It can be compared to Su-30 that India have The chinese have the SU30 MKC.
ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 The chinese have the SU30 MKC. Ya they also have Sukhois, but lesser than India I think. They are going to concentrate on the J-XX series more now. Once they have the J-20, India needs to start some serious thinking on acquiring a 5th gen aircraft.
Guest Gunner Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Ya they also have Sukhois' date=' but lesser than India I think. They are going to concentrate on the J-XX series more now.[/quote'] Different avionics, we use Israeli.
achilles Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Wow. Great pics of Typhoon. Gunner... do you have any sources about the aircraft we are developing with the Ruskies? This is news for a lot of people.
ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 Different avionics, we use Israeli. India is currently co-developing one with Russia. The J-20 is not without its problems, reverse engineering only takes you so far, they have used everything they could learn from the Tomcats and the F-16s. Btw, the Americans are not handing over any recent F16s to the Pakiz mainly for this reason, beijing will be all over it in a flash, particulary the avionics. The J-20 program is ahead of the Indo-Russia FGFA. Given the usual delays in such projects, I expect the FGFA to be inducted only by 2019-2020. Most probably J-20 will be with the Chinese atleast 2 years before that. Of course by then Americans would have produced something even better than the F22 Raptor and the rest of the world will be playing catch up The F16s sold to Pakistans were always stripped down from the cutting edge technology. Plus Pakistan was made to pay $125 million for housing the F16s in a separate base so the technology cant be transferred to China. :cantstop: http://www.thehindu.com/news/the-india-cables/the-cables/article2059826.ece
ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 Wow. Great pics of Typhoon. Gunner... do you have any sources about the aircraft we are developing with the Ruskies? This is news for a lot of people. Its the HAL FGFA (Fiffth Generation fighter aircraft). Its a project for an Indianized version of the PAK-FA which already has a protype produced. This is the video of the T-50 prototype gBTPezIhUZ8
Clarke Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 As of today, the Rafale is the clear winner wrt MMRCA. It is a true multi-role, comes with full ToT, no usage restrictions, can use existing Mirage 2000 infrastructure, is more affordable & has an active AESA being developed, is nuclear strike capable (heavens forbid its used in that manner) & carrier capable as well. It is actively used in Libya unlike the Typhoon which acts as fighter support for the Tornado's ground missions. The Typhoon in current form is a full on air superiority fighter, which we do not need with the MKI procurements. Tranche III might be what the aircraft was meant to be, when that arrives. As of now, its a filthy expensive bird; the Germans don't need it, the Brits can't afford it & the Italians & Spaniards, neither can they afford it nor do they need it. That leaves the rich folks as buyers, the Saudis :haha: Anyone remember the original requirement ? The IAF loved the Mirage 2000 Kargil onwards & was keen on that. By the time the official request got to the French, they had shut down the Mirage assembly line & proposed the Rafale instead, not exactly a medium aircraft. In the originally submitted tenders, the F-16 & the Gripen were the only aircraft the met the IAF requirements and they're no longer in play, unless some undercover discussions are being pursued. Maybe a decade after the IAF's request, our babus can order some planes :blink:
Guest Gunner Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 As of today' date= the Rafale is the clear winner wrt MMRCA. It is a true multi-role, comes with full ToT, no usage restrictions, can use existing Mirage 2000 infrastructure, is more affordable & has an active AESA being developed, is nuclear strike capable (heavens forbid its used in that manner) & carrier capable as well. It is actively used in Libya unlike the Typhoon which acts as fighter support for the Tornado's ground missions. The Typhoon in current form is a full on air superiority fighter, which we do not need with the MKI procurements. Tranche III might be what the aircraft was meant to be, when that arrives. As of now, its a filthy expensive bird; the Germans don't need it, the Brits can't afford it & the Italians & Spaniards, neither can they afford it nor do they need it. That leaves the rich folks as buyers, the Saudis :haha: Anyone remember the original requirement ? The IAF loved the Mirage 2000 Kargil onwards & was keen on that. By the time the official request got to the French, they had shut down the Mirage assembly line & proposed the Rafale instead, not exactly a medium aircraft. In the originally submitted tenders, the F-16 & the Gripen were the only aircraft the met the IAF requirements and they're no longer in play, unless some undercover discussions are being pursued. Maybe a decade after the IAF's request, our babus can order some planes :blink: Funny thing is I have had conversations with guys 6-8 years ago who already called the Rafaele the best match for India's needs. The babus are still getting there. :haha::haha:
Guest Gunner Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 The J-20 program is ahead of the Indo-Russia FGFA. Given the usual delays in such projects' date=' I expect the FGFA to be inducted only by 2019-2020. Most probably J-20 will be with the Chinese atleast 2 years before that. [/quote'] No, The chinese will have an inherently inferior technology since they just copy or reverse engineer from others. There is no innovation going into any of their crap. Weren't they working on something called the F35 stealth fighter? A billion pop a plane or something like that (design stage not production). The chinese already got access to the design of old tomcats long ago. Further they also had access to the Paki F16 Block A/B which they had in the 80s. I think the pakiz were supposed to get the block C or D version of this aircraft now, a full 20 years behind schedule. :haha::haha:
ganeshran Posted June 2, 2011 Author Posted June 2, 2011 As of today, the Rafale is the clear winner wrt MMRCA. It is a true multi-role, comes with full ToT, no usage restrictions, can use existing Mirage 2000 infrastructure, is more affordable & has an active AESA being developed, is nuclear strike capable (heavens forbid its used in that manner) & carrier capable as well. It is actively used in Libya unlike the Typhoon which acts as fighter support for the Tornado's ground missions. The Typhoon in current form is a full on air superiority fighter, which we do not need with the MKI procurements. Tranche III might be what the aircraft was meant to be, when that arrives. As of now, its a filthy expensive bird; the Germans don't need it, the Brits can't afford it & the Italians & Spaniards, neither can they afford it nor do they need it. That leaves the rich folks as buyers, the Saudis :haha: Anyone remember the original requirement ? The IAF loved the Mirage 2000 Kargil onwards & was keen on that. By the time the official request got to the French, they had shut down the Mirage assembly line & proposed the Rafale instead, not exactly a medium aircraft. In the originally submitted tenders, the F-16 & the Gripen were the only aircraft the met the IAF requirements and they're no longer in play, unless some undercover discussions are being pursued. Maybe a decade after the IAF's request, our babus can order some planes :blink: The main thing going against the Eurofighter is its relative inexperience in combat situations, something the Rafale has already been tested in combat missions including Libya. Other than that, I dont see concerns on ToT - Merkel has already promised very liberal terms to the government about it. Also, I remember reading that EF typhoon will get the AESA by the time the IAF inducts the jet - if it chooses to do so. It will ultimately boil down to the cost they are offering. Plus big ticket acquisitions also have political and strategic factors attached to them.
Guest Gunner Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 The main thing going against the Eurofighter is its relative inexperience in combat situations, something the Rafale has already been tested in combat missions including Libya. Other than that, I dont see concerns on ToT - Merkel has already promised very liberal terms to the government about it. Also, I remember reading that EF typhoon will get the AESA by the time the IAF inducts the jet - if it chooses to do so. It will ultimately boil down to the cost they are offering. Plus big ticket acquisitions also have political and strategic factors attached to them. Brah you are not getting the point, no one wants the Eurofighter. It is a very expensive toy. The europeans are just trying to recover their costs, they will throw in a factory in Germany if you want. :haha:
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