American-Muslim weightlifter allowed to wear hijab

[akshayxyz]

She looks like a little stick figure. I thought to be able to do all those heavy weights, you need to be built like an oak tree.

Size wise she is fine, just that mostly its fat. You are wrong in assuming that every weightlifter has to be heavy-weight. Though, her knees are awkwardly bent inwards. I hope its just that picture due to some angle, otherwise clear invitation for trouble. .... Need to take a day off to read Mariyam's posts and another day to understand. Looks like writer in her felt challenged by Vijay's long posts. :winky:

[Sachin=GOD]

Size wise she is fine, just that mostly its fat. You are wrong in assuming that every weightlifter has to be heavy-weight. Though, her knees are awkwardly bent inwards. I I hope its just that picture due to some angle, otherwise clear invitation for trouble. .... Need to take a day off to read Mariyam's post and another day to understand. Looks like writer in her felt challenged by Vijay's long posts. :winky:

:phehehe:

[EnterTheVoid]

Need to take a day off to read Mariyam's post and another day to understand. Looks like writer in her felt challenged by Vijay's long posts. :winky:

Sorry Mariyam, I just don't have the attention span to read such long posts. One or two lines, I can manage.

[punjabiplaya]

If your family was strict maybe you'd learn to respect differences and alternate opinions.

[ganeshran]

Everything here is incorrect. You have your facts wrong. 1) You are stating that people believe that the Burqa is a religious diktat mandated by God. That is not always the case. There are many who wear the Burqa if they ( or the religious authority they listen to) interpret the relevant verses in the Holy Quran as saying they should. The Holy Quran asks a woman to dress modestly. IIRC, it doesn't even specifically call for a Burqa. It doesn't say what punishment ( or if any) is due to those who don't dress modestly. But all that is a different topic. So, based on what exactly do you call the Burqa a diktat mandated by God? It is neither meant to be a diktat nor is it mandatory.

I said so because the primary motive behind the Burqa is religious. You can argue that it is isn't mandated by religious book but the reason that women take it up is because they have been led to believe that wearing the Burqa is adhering to the tenets of their religion. There were practices like Sati and Jauhar which were not always coercive either, only in some cases. Would you argue for it to be allowed when women are not coerced into it? If you consider Burqa solely a garment of personal choice where any individual makes the choice to wear it without any religious influence, this debate is not going to work because of our varying perceptions of the garment. I consider the individual wearing the garment solely because of religious influence regardless of whether it is made a mandatory requirement. I do not say the same about other religious items of clothing like the turban, the hijab, the religious threads, the mangalsutras because they do not hamper an individual's ability to function in an environment outside their homes.

I never mentioned that the Burqa is relevant at home. I can tell you, that abolishing the Burqa will simply result in many Muslim women ( who are not wearing the Burqa of their free will) from being let the chance to go out and work/ study or participate in any economic activity. How are you increasing their sphere of influence if you ban the Burqa? An impediment in communication is better than no communication. Right? In cases where the Burqa is forced, banning the Burqa makes the women more dependent on their families and not the other way around. Because they won't be let out of home. And those who wear the Burqa of their free will, will be disgusted at unnecessary interference in their personal matters by the government.

You used your mother's domestic position to highlight the position of Muslim women in society. I said its domestic position is irrelevant to the current debate since its about the ability of women to perform a role outside of the domestic area. You say that the banning of the Burqa would result in many Muslim women not being allowed to leave their homes. So you mean to say that many of these women out of their own volition will not leave their house without a burqa or is it that male members of the family keep the burqa as a precondition to leave the house? If its the latter then the whole argument is invalid because it is coercion which we have already established is wrong.

Absolutely incorrect analogy. The girl's side is never parting with their hard earned money willingly. I, at least, am yet to come across such a girl and her parents. However, there are many instances where the women choose to wear a Burqa when they go out. The difference is that of free will.

Its a perfectly fine analogy. The dowry system concept is so entrenched in society that the most brides and their families have accepted its legitimacy. If it was so unwilling from one side, then most girls wont get married to grooms who demand dowry, but its not the case. In most marriages dowry is an absolutely acceptable practice nowadays inspite of the huge moral questions it raises of discriminating against the bride. Is dowry legitimate if both the groom and bride accept it without any coercion from one side? Does it drown the fact that dowry fuels other evils like female infanticide?

Again, you have missed the entire argument. 1) We authorize practices like Burqa? I don't know about you, but I have never worn the Burqa and have always discouraged women from wearing one. Also, those who wear the Burqa do not need anyones authorization. 2) What basis for you to say that increasing visibility causes more people to follow the practice? You have numbers? What % of Muslim women in India wear the Burqa? What % was it in 1950 and what is it today? If anything, the % of Burqa wearing women ( in urban centres) has gone down drastically. Is Modern society according to you, one which prohibits a woman from exercising her right to choose? Make no bones about it, that is what you are advocating. At the end of the day, the Burqa is a mere tool. It can be used for the oppression of women, like how many Muslims men have done through out the ages. By forcing it. Like I said in my previous post, if you want to curb oppression, fight the oppressor, not the tool. In this great country we have ample legislation for that.?

Yes society authorizes such practices by giving it legitimacy and accepting it regardless of the fact that it leads to oppression of half of the population. When women are raised seeing many other women in their society wearing the Burqa it is natural that they accept its legitimacy as well. The perception is what is important here. Do you accept that women in a Burqa will find it difficult to participate in society and become financially independent of their husbands?

[sarcastic]

Thats because men have to grow a long beard. That coupled with long hair acts as a de-facto niqab. In this way, money saved on the male niqab can be used for charity and general betterment of the society.

Thanks for your answer. It really clarifies the Niqab doubt. I believe your logic does not automatically translate to Burqas though. Can you please let me know why males don't wear some form of Burqa. Why are only women supposed to wear them?:hmmm:

[Mariyam]

I'm going to pull on a Burqa on this discussion and exit because I don't like the direction it is going in. Anyone who wants to continue, can PM me. @ Ganesh: 1) Sati is not comparable at all to the Burqa. Sati if done by coercion is murder or culpable homicide. If done by free will, its suicide. These do not fall under the ambit of "Individual liberties". You should really look up the law of the land before you give such analogies. 2) Some who wear the Burqa wear it because they are coerced into it. Some wear it of their free will.I just explained to you, how both the groups will suffer if a ban on the Burqa is enforced. I also said, that coercing Burqa should be under domestic abuse. Why ask me again? 3) Dowry is a different topic and worthy of another thread. Dowry is 'de facto' ( note: not de jure) legitimized in the form of marriage gifts and what not. What do you think is the causus belli of that piece of legislation? Again, that too is a complicated thing which has a lot to do with inheritance laws as well as dowry. 4) Obviously, a Burqa clad woman will find it difficult to participate in the economy*. So will a person who chooses to be lazy and does no work, but lives off his/her parents paisa. Should we then also make lethargy illegal? (*) Ofcourse, some women are let out of home to work/shop etc only if they wear a Burqa. @ sarcastic: I was being sarcastic. The answer to your question can be found if you look up 'awrah' with respect to Islam. Google is your friend.