vicks Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 Question to the slightly elder ones...ppl who were keenly following Indian cricket before 1985. Did Yograj Singh (UV's dad) really suffer some kinda bias against him? The anecdotes I heard from one of my coaches during 1993 was that Yograj Singh was a better bowler than Kapil Dev but they didn't pick him. Not that Kapsy played any politics but was Yograj dealt with unfairly? No bias. Their case was no different than Tendulkar/Kambli. You can argue that Kambli (at that schoolboy stage) was more talented than SRT, but his downfall was a result of his lack of work ethic, and he just went on to be bitter about it. Same thing with Yograj - when coached by DP Azad he was considered better than Kapil and also played a test for India IIRC. But wasn't willing to put in the hard yards like Kapil did, and the rest is history. His *****ing about it now doesn't change the reality. India could have used another Kapil throughout the 80s - what was stopping Yograj?
vamos_rafa Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 Srinath was possibly the most unluckiest pace bowler ever. He was genuinely quick and for a brief period during 96-97 just way too quick - even quicker than the then supposed to be quicks "White Lightning" and "Toe Crusher". I think one of the best testimonies of Srinath's ability came from his team mate Rahul Dravid after his 148 at Jo-burg. Rahul said "I am glad I didn't have to face Sri on that pitch". But I am not sure about the prevailing perception that Srinath had to learn everything by himself in his early years. He had Kapil for guidance. I can believe if Prabhakar was not ready to share stuff with other bowlers (although Kapil himself acknowledges that the delhi rat taught him to swing the old ball). But Kapil not sharing his wisdom with Srinath is hard to believe, What is more likely is that Srinath could not understand what Kapil was trying to tell him. And Kapil did not know how to get across to Srinath. No, even i have read about this a lot. Kapil's attitude towards the younger pace bowlers was not something to be proud of. Infact, Srinath himslef mentioned this that he was never guided as a young fast bowler. He learnt things on his own. And judging by the reviews, Sri doesn look like a person who would make loose statements. He has been grossly underrated. Had he received some kind of support he would have done so much more. He's also one of the reasons of our team's revivial post match fixing but somehow, we forget to mention his name. For me the favourite Sri moment is from the '99 WC. Srinath,McGrath andJeff Thompson all three of them standing near a speed gun which shows 99 MPH,the fastest delivery then. It was on the eve of the 1st super 6 match. It felt great to have seen that and i felt, how much we do underrate this great fast bowler. And after 2000, he was a changed bowler. The way he controlled line and length was simply McGrathisque. His guidance to Zak is paying such high dividends. :hatsoff: Srinath!!!
Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 Quite frankly. That should mean. He will never get dropped. he's in the top 10 in the rankings, has taken most wickets for the team in winning cause in last 3 years and still you want him to be dropped.
Sidhoni Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 You got a problem with our bowler being in top 10, retard ? Why would i have a problem? Its a rarity that 3 of our bowlers are in the Top-10 bowlers!:aha: But Bhajji needs to bowl like a Top-10 bowler.
jonas10 Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 Dartbhajan still in Top-10? :wall: What the hell is wrong with so called India fans on this forum? :facepalm:
jonas10 Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 Why would i have a problem? Its a rarity that 3 of our bowlers are in the Top-10 bowlers!:aha: But Bhajji needs to bowl like a Top-10 bowler. Apparently he is or why else would he be in top 10? Let me guess he is a master politician and the entire ICC is mesmerized by his aura. :cantstop:
CSK Fan Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 he's in the top 10 in the rankings' date=' has taken most wickets for the team in winning cause in last 3 years and still you want him to be dropped.[/quote'] Well he has played in most number of matches and as a result most number of winning matches for India than any other Indian bowler so that helps
Vijay.Sharma Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 No bias. Their case was no different than Tendulkar/Kambli. You can argue that Kambli (at that schoolboy stage) was more talented than SRT' date=' but his downfall was a result of his lack of work ethic, and he just went on to be bitter about it. Same thing with Yograj - when coached by DP Azad he was considered better than Kapil and also played a test for India IIRC. But wasn't willing to put in the hard yards like Kapil did, and the rest is history. His *****ing about it now doesn't change the reality. India could have used another Kapil throughout the 80s - what was stopping Yograj?[/quote']Yeah! My hunch was right, then. Legend has it he was pretty quick a la the Niazi (Imran). Is that true?
Vijay.Sharma Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 No, even i have read about this a lot. Kapil's attitude towards the younger pace bowlers was not something to be proud of. Infact, Srinath himslef mentioned this that he was never guided as a young fast bowler. He learnt things on his own. And judging by the reviews, Sri doesn look like a person who would make loose statements. He has been grossly underrated. Had he received some kind of support he would have done so much more. He's also one of the reasons of our team's revivial post match fixing but somehow, we forget to mention his name. For me the favourite Sri moment is from the '99 WC. Srinath,McGrath andJeff Thompson all three of them standing near a speed gun which shows 99 MPH,the fastest delivery then. It was on the eve of the 1st super 6 match. It felt great to have seen that and i felt, how much we do underrate this great fast bowler. And after 2000, he was a changed bowler. The way he controlled line and length was simply McGrathisque. His guidance to Zak is paying such high dividends. :hatsoff: Srinath!!!No doubt about "annavuru's" contribution and talent (annavuru in kannada means elder brother addressed with respect). I met the guy in March 2008 the day before the first final of the CB series at the airport in Bangalore. I was going to KL and Srinath was on the same plane...took his autograph. At KL I was looking in the map where the ground was where Kohli and his boys won the U-19 WC. Then I realized Sri must have been going to KL for something related to the U-19 WC. Anyway, coming to Kapsy. I find it impossible to believe Kapil was selfish in sharing info and wisdom...I have a bias because he is my hero and I haveen't had any other "hero" in my life. But taking a step back and looking at the whole picture, inducing different perspectives to it. I think the following is what happened: a. Kapil is not a very good communicator (nothing to do with language but to do with sending across the message). b. Understanding what makes Kapil tick is not straight forward. He plays the game because he enjoys it and he feels people must enjoy the game and find their own ways to excel at it. c. Given the above, Kapil as a mentor to a youngster is like asking George Bush to head the Peace committee. OTOH Sachin and Gavva learned to communicate and share the wisdom, as did Srinath and Zak. So, in essence, there was a problem of communication. Neither of the two understood how to send across the message to the other / receive the message from the other. So from Srinath's perspective it would seem like Kapil is not sharing his wisdom and the feeling of "being done in" in a young mind tends to stay until wisdom teaches otherwise. It is more than likely that Srinath would be able to understand the whole situation (what I theorized above) now and forgive himself, Kapil for it. He is wise enough to do that. Kapil is a lion-hearted cricketer. More, Pras, Patil, etc joined him with no hesitation on the ICL panel because they trusted his leadership and they felt he was in it for the good of Indian cricket. Not one player who played with Kapil in the 80s (edit - except the Delhi rat - lol) would doubt his character for sharing wisdom. What happened in the 90s is because of Kapil's chasing of Hadlee's record and quite rightly some of the bowlers felt they lost their opportunities because of Kapil. However, Kapil, even in that lean period was way ahead of any other pacer in the team including Srinath, Prabhakar, Chetan Sharma, Ankola, etc. The feeling that Kapil dragged on for the record possibly stems from the fact that his batting became miserable...not his bowling. Although his 5fors reduced, his 4 fors and 3fors were there even in the 90s.
Sachin=GOD Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 Ishant Sharma resurgence Well he has played in most number of matches and as a result most number of winning matches for India than any other Indian bowler so that helps In Test matches won by India since 1st January 2008, Harbhajan has bowled in 28 innings, Ishant in 26 and Zak in 22 innings - so, he has bowled a grand total of 6 more innings than Zak and 2 more than Ishant.
Sehwag1830 Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Simons pleased with Ishant's resurgence "Sometimes pressure forces players to try and change too many things technically. And in trying to do that, he lost some of his shape as a bowler. To identify what is wrong is only 10% of the problem; fixing it takes time. That is why the improvement through South Africa, and in the IPL and even more so here. "His body position forced his grip to change. Now he's more upright, and his wrist is in a better position. Only when you are confident about the technique and start bowling at the pace you are capable of, you can be at your best." http://www.espncricinfo.com/west-indies-v-india-2011/content/current/story/522002.html Simons pleased with Ishant's resurgence ESPNcricinfo staff July 5, 2011 Eric Simons, the India bowling coach, is pleased with the resurgence in Ishant Sharma's bowling in the ongoing West Indies tour, leading up to his maiden ten-wicket match haul in the Barbados Test. Ishant's revival - after a poor tour of South Africa - began in the IPL and has continued in the Caribbean, a transformation Simons attributed to vital technical changes in the bowler's action, including his body and wrist position. "Ishant had already started taking big strides in South Africa," Simons told the Hindustan Times. "From a technical perspective, what I saw of him in the IPL gave me a lot of confidence. "Sometimes pressure forces players to try and change too many things technically. And in trying to do that, he lost some of his shape as a bowler. To identify what is wrong is only 10% of the problem; fixing it takes time. That is why the improvement through South Africa, and in the IPL and even more so here. "His body position forced his grip to change. Now he's more upright, and his wrist is in a better position. Only when you are confident about the technique and start bowling at the pace you are capable of, you can be at your best." In the absence of Zaheer Khan and Sreesanth, India came into the series with a depleted seam attack and Munaf Patel's injury following the ODIs made matters worse. Simons said Munaf - whose suspect fitness levels have restricted him to the shorter versions in recent times - has a lot to offer at the Test level. "I am disappointed about Munaf's injury here," Simons said. "We have been working hard on increasing his pace. His accuracy, particularly in Tests, would have been an advantage. "We have seen how integral Munaf has become to our one-day attack. He's going to do the same in Test cricket. Barbados would have been an ideal wicket for him, and England will be the same. We are happy to add one or two dimensions to his style. He has to bowl more and more in Test cricket, and that will happen from the training we have been doing." The absence of first-choice seamers gave Praveen Kumar a chance to break into the Test side, and he impressed with his ability to move the red ball for long periods of time. With Zaheer and Sreesanth returning for the England tour, Simons was confident that India would have the depth to trouble the in-form home side in seaming conditions. "If I were in the England side, I would certainly be respectful of the Indian attack," Simons said."I'd imagine they would respect our seam attack as much as they respected our spin attacks in the past." Simons defended spin spearhead Harbhajan Singh, who has had an ordinary series so far, picking up only five wickets in four innings. "You have to look at the role a spinner has to play sometimes in a four-man attack," Simons said. "It's not just about taking wickets. Harbhajan is so crucial to us. People see him as an attacking force and tend to play him defensively as well."
CSK Fan Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 In Test matches won by India since 1st January 2008' date=' Harbhajan has bowled in 28 innings, Ishant in 26 and Zak in 22 innings - so, he has bowled a grand total of 6 more innings than Zak and 2 more than Ishant.[/quote'] I meant overall in tests, not just won ones, duh
rkt.india Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Subtle changes in bowling action of Ishant Sharma since 2008 Australia tour (Videos) Perth Test 2008 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAEXuMnw3tI]YouTube - Ishant Sharma and Ricky Ponting, 3rd test[/ame] An ODI in Australia 2008 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRMlGk0bGG8&feature=related]YouTube - Sharma 4 Wickets 4th ODI Australia vs India[/ame] Australia tour to India test in October 2008 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKWt_9cy_J0&feature=related]YouTube - ISHANT SHARMA BOWLED RICKY PONTING[/ame] ODI series West Indies 2009 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4lcnxfTQjc]YouTube - Ishant Sharma was expensive in the third ODI[/ame] IPL Match against KTK [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIRRkLlP2GU]YouTube - Man of the Match: IPL 2011 - KTK vs DC - Ishant Sharma, MATCH32[/ame] Recent test in West Indies [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=592ocrVK3ik]YouTube - Ind vs WI 2nd Test 3rd Day: Ishant gets career-best 6/55[/ame] Lets analyze his action and changes in them. In 2008 in Australia, his bowling action was a little different than what it is now. The differences are very minute but these minimal changes can affect a bowlers bowling and rhythm. He was more upright when delivering and more wide of the crease. His bowling and non-bowling hands positions were pretty different too. Though he was generating good pace and was bowling well, but at that time, I felt his bowling action was locked kind of an action which is not allowing him to put full force behind the ball, bowling yorkers and accurate bouncers was also a difficult task with that action and was mainly an in swing bowler. He bowled quite well and fast till IPL 2009 in South Africa, but in T20 World Cup 2009 in England, i noticed some subtle changes in his bowling action. First he was trying to come close to the stumps and second had opened his chest more than what it was before, closed, but in that process he lost his rhythm and then pace, bowling and non-bowling hands positions were going awry, left hand was tilting and falling to the left side, wrist was not behind the seam as well, which was not allowing him to bowl at the right place and accurately and he had lost his zip and bounce to. It happened on the tour of WI too where we played 3 ODI series and he was rubbish on that tour. Ishant was trying to change his approach of bowling at that time to add out swing and leg cutter slower balls in his repertoire, but in that process he lost his in swing as well. Next one and half year proved a tough time for Ishant in all formats of the game, though he still had some good performance in tests here and there and he was slowly improving in his new approach, but the worst of his bowling in tests came on SA tour in 2010-2011 where despite of favorable pitches and conditions, he was not able to bowl a 4 straight balls in an over which all was required to trouble the batsmen on those pitches and was bowling well only in patches. The break after SA tour, as he was not in WC squad, proved boon for him. He went to his local coach and worked on his errors and strengths. He went back to his old approach in which he was relaying on in swingers and a delivery which would hold its line after pitching. But the truth is, it is not that easy to change and chop your bowling action and successfully cope with it and if you try to go back to it again. Ishant too tried to go back to his old action, but it did not happen completely. Though after working hard in this period, he refined his action and got his pace and rhythm back, but what happened is his action came out much better than what it was in 2008. He is now bowling more close to the stumps rather than in 2008 and is also getting more away movement and pace is also back. All in all, this process has proved a boon for Ishant. He went to a slump in trying to make some changes, but came out winner and has more options in his repertoire now as he can bowl much more potent bouncers than he ever bowled before.
deepak_sach Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 LOL!i dont know so much about cricket.i just watch .Thats all. @rkt.india:hatsoff:
Andy Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 ^LOL RKT - Good write up and analysis, I feel the same way as you do.
Andy Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 RKT missed out on the fact how it helped Ishant by Dumping Kay Kay Har.
deepak_sach Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 This is what bad coaches can do to good players. Wasim Akram was a great bowler but a bad coach.... He intentionally did not want any good indian bowler to come through. and taught him to swing the ball while Ishant Sharma is essentially a pace bowler.
desi pride 1234 Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Good one. U always impress with me your knowledge in pace bowling.:nice:
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