Tamilians are "dark and dirty"

[ganeshran]

She tried to be humorus and failed misreably. Any way' date=' a black guy can call another blacy guy N-word but if a white guy uses it he'll probably get shot. Ya, [b']Tamalians are colour crazy. The first thing they say when describe a new baby or a bride its how fair they are. As a diplomat she should have taken time and researched about the people's sentiment before making personal jokes. You can go to Alabama and make redneck jokes all day long and get away with it but people get touchy when someone makes black jokes.

Its pretty much prevalent all over India...

[cricket_usa]

Its pretty much prevalent all over India...

It may be, I am just talking from my experience. The fartherst north I have been is Banglore.

[cricket_usa]

We need a color blind society !

No we don't. We need a society where everyone's difference is respected.

[Ram]

No we don't. We need a society where everyone's difference is respected.

:hatsoff:

[Mariyam]

Sorry to say, but the behaviour by ICFers on this thread leaves me saddened. It doesn't matter if Indians are racist or if we are biased in the favour of those with fair skin. That doesn't absolve Maureen Chao of her crime. I don't know why people bring that up. What kind of horrible defensive statements are those. She is a Vice Consul at the Chennai Consulate. A representative of the US government. She absolutely, even as a jest ( which if it was, is in very bad taste) cannot pass of these kind of comments. She represents the US government here, and they should apologize to the Tamil people. India should just ask her to pack her bags, and leave the country within 24 hours. Declare her a persona non grata. Imagine, an Indian diplomat going to some school in Alabama and saying that his long road trip from Las Vegas to SF in his student days made his skin dark and dirty as the Black Americans. What kind of a reaction would it evoke? He wouldn't be spared. Civil rights groups in the US might even press charges against him for hate speech and what not. :D One can understand if your common Betty or Veronica said something like this in a pool side party in Chennai. But not a representative of the government while visiting a college in official capacity.

[Lurker]

India should just ask her to pack her bags, and leave the country within 24 hours. Declare her a persona non grata.

Indeed. There is a reason why the highest praise for a sportsmen, or artist for example, is that he/she was a great ambassdor for his country. Now if the ambassdors themselves can not do their job they should be kicked out. Easy.

I hate saying this, but had it been an official from the embassy of a Muslim country. This thread would be 514278853 pages long with all kind of abuses and derogatory comments. Wonder why the usual suspects are not angered by these comments at all?

lol..Good point. :hatsoff:

[ganeshran]

Mariyam, her comments were wrong - period. In her official position she should have been capable enough to deduce that such comments were unwarranted. But many of the posts here simply reflect the fact that Indians are more guilty of preferential treatment to fair skin color. Before making blanket accusations (not only Maureen Chao) towards the west of racism, we should also make a serious attempt to address the wrongs within.

[Mariyam]

Mariyam' date=' her comments were wrong - period. In her official position she should have been capable enough to deduce that such comments were unwarranted. [/quote'] But she was not able to deduce. And she she still went ahead and said those things. And as far as I know, she hasn't been punished. Usko saat khoon maaf, aur hume milti hai phansi chindi chori ke liye? Blanket accusations? I don't know what you've been reading. But no one has made any blanket accusations towards the West. And your arguement is a total non sequitur. What if Indians are guilty of preferential treatment to people of fair skin? Does that mean Maureen can say what she likes and get away with it? Why is that even a part of this discussion? Some days back it was a thread on some Australian RJ who said something about India and Indians, and people come up with posts that read like " Indians say/do so much worse". Addressing racism in India has nothing to do with Maureen. Make another thread for that. :P All these issues have to be looked in isolation. Period. Since you take this issue up, please show me an example of an instance where an Indian diplomat said something that is so blatantly racist.

[Guest Gunner]

Sorry to say, but the behaviour by ICFers on this thread leaves me saddened. It doesn't matter if Indians are racist or if we are biased in the favour of those with fair skin. That doesn't absolve Maureen Chao of her crime. I don't know why people bring that up. What kind of horrible defensive statements are those. She is a Vice Consul at the Chennai Consulate. A representative of the US government. She absolutely, even as a jest ( which if it was, is in very bad taste) cannot pass of these kind of comments. She represents the US government here, and they should apologize to the Tamil people. India should just ask her to pack her bags, and leave the country within 24 hours. Declare her a persona non grata. Imagine, an Indian diplomat going to some school in Alabama and saying that his long road trip from Las Vegas to SF in his student days made his skin dark and dirty as the Black Americans. What kind of a reaction would it evoke? He wouldn't be spared. Civil rights groups in the US might even press charges against him for hate speech and what not. :D One can understand if your common Betty or Veronica said something like this in a pool side party in Chennai. But not a representative of the government while visiting a college in official capacity.

No one is defending her. In fact what has been highlighted is that this sort of sadly racist tendencies exist even among ourselves. Try getting a dark skinned girl married and you will see what I am talking about. Yes she was wrong but I am wondering whether she was encouraged to make that statement based on observing how Indians behave with eachother. If in the US it was popular culture to use the N-word, most non-black people may do it too however since it is strictly frowned upon no one would dare. That said in India you can call Tamils dirty and filthy sitting in the northern part of the country at a party and everyone would take it as a fine joke and laugh. SO there is an environment of encouragement for such things. This permissiveness is what I suspect is behind her flippant remark more than anything else. If on the other hand she was aware that such statements were frowned upon in India she would never have dared. So now tell me whom should you be saddened with?

[Mariyam]

Forget subjecting common people on basis of their features .... Even someone like Tendulkar is not spared here. What right do these people have to judge the American ambassador when they don't even have the sense to treat the most loved man from the country respectfully ? .

I don't know who the 'these people here' are, whom you refer to. But two things: 1) Maureen is not the American ambassador. She is the Vice Consul. 2) The 'these people here' are not representing their nation in any official capacity. Maureen Chao is. Thats the clincher. I'm surprised how you didn't manage to grasp that. A person who doesn't respect Tendulkar (whatever that means) cannot be upset at the racist comments of Maureen Chao? Is that what you are trying to say? Are you not upset?

[Mariyam]

No one is defending her. In fact what has been highlighted is that this sort of sadly racist tendencies exist even among ourselves. Try getting a dark skinned girl married and you will see what I am talking about. Yes she was wrong but I am wondering whether she was encouraged to make that statement based on observing how Indians behave with eachother. If in the US it was popular culture to use the N-word' date=' most non-black people may do it too however since it is strictly frowned upon no one would dare. That said in India you can call Tamils dirty and filthy sitting in the northern part of the country at a party and everyone would take it as a fine joke and laugh. SO there is an environment of encouragement for such things. This permissiveness is what I suspect is behind her flippant remark more than anything else. If on the other hand she was aware that such statements were frowned upon in India she would never have dared. So now tell me whom should you be saddened with?[/quote'] Everything you say is true. Unfortunately. However, it is a stretch to assume that undercurrent of racism by north Indians induced her to behave and say as she did. And even if you assume that, she chose her words herself. I'm sure a North Indian didn't write that speech for her. The absolute culpability and responsibility is hers. Thats how these things work. BTW: I have never come across this Tamil = filthy and dirty stereotype. And she was talking about the skin. And yes, I am more saddened with instances of domestic racism. But that has nothing to do with this case.

[ganeshran]

But she was not able to deduce. And she she still went ahead and said those things. And as far as I know, she hasn't been punished. Usko saat khoon maaf, aur hume milti hai phansi chindi chori ke liye?

You are not getting it. The opinion on the thread is that her comments are wrong. What more can one argue against it? The government should convey its displeasure with her issuing a public apology and get it over with. Maureen Chao will be condemned by people all over the country and with her government regretting her comments and will learn enough to do more research before making such remarks.

Blanket accusations? I don't know what you've been reading. But no one has made any blanket accusations towards the West.

A very common reaction to any racist incident is to paint the entire west in the same colour, which is totally unfair. I am pretty sure someone will come up with the argument soon enough on this thread, it has been done many times before.

And your arguement is a total non sequitur. What if Indians are guilty of preferential treatment to people of fair skin? Does that mean Maureen can say what she likes and get away with it? Why is that even a part of this discussion? Some days back it was a thread on some Australian RJ who said something about India and Indians, and people come up with posts that read like " Indians say/do so much worse". Addressing racism in India has nothing to do with Maureen. Make another thread for that. :P All these issues have to be looked in isolation. Period. Since you take this issue up, please show me an example of an instance where an Indian diplomat said something that is so blatantly racist.

My argument was not a non-sequitur . If this behavior is something that is so outrageous that the diplomat must be expelled, then it is a logical assumption that it must not at all be present in the country or atleast be frowned upon. But that is just not the case. Preferential treatment towards fair skin is not only condoned but openly encouraged all over the country. Why should we first consider it acceptable when Indians do it and then raise a hoopla when someone from the west does it? Note that I am not saying that a diplomat making such comments is right, but rather that Indians indulging in such behavior is equally if not more wrong.

[Guest Gunner]

Everything you say is true. Unfortunately. However, it is a stretch to assume that undercurrent of racism by north Indians induced her to behave and say as she did. And even if you assume that, she chose her words herself. I'm sure a North Indian didn't write that speech for her. The absolute culpability and responsibility is hers. Thats how these things work. BTW: I have never come across this Tamil = filthy and dirty stereotype. And she was talking about the skin. And yes, I am more saddened with instances of domestic racism. But that has nothing to do with this case.

Maybe I should clarify. I didn't mean to say that North Indians are racists, that would be too appalling a statement. I cited that as one example, there are many many others. All sorts of Indians are culpable of this crime. What I am saying is that this creates an environment of permissiveness that racists taunts are not thaaaattt bad. You see what I mean? An international example, Switzerland has an extreme reputation for racism, it reached such xenophobic levels that the Swiss govt stepped in and had to educate the people over the last decade to improve the situation. What it has done is that certain types of jokes are still "ok" in Switzerland whereas in the rest of Europe it would earn you disgusted looks. Therefore my comment is more about the environment which we have generated where people find it acceptable to make certain comments which seen in a specific context like this is grating. I am not absolving her of her crime merely pointing out that the original sin lies elsewhere.

[Lurker]

Maybe I should clarify. I didn't mean to say that North Indians are racists' date=' that would be too appalling a statement. I cited that as one example, there are many many others. All sorts of Indians are culpable of this crime. [b']What I am saying is that this creates an environment of permissiveness that racists taunts are not thaaaattt bad. You see what I mean?

You are essentially using what Indians do, and it is definitely on the wane, to justify what a non-Indian, in a diplomatic capacity, has done. It is false equiivalency. Even if a Bihari CM would have said that Tamilians are dark and dirty there should have been an absolute furore, and rightfully so. This is akin to Indian Ambassdor/Consul General addressing a University Grad ceremony in Seattle and calling Alabamanas gun-totting, cousin-breeding, fried-ice cream eating rednecks. This is just not on. Now if your assertion is Indians are guilty of doing it amongst themselves. Sure. Heck that most likely was the reason this lady probably made that comment thinking it would fly as humor. xxx

[Brainfade]

Two wrongs don't make a right. We have our own social problems, but that does not absolve her of blame for what she said. She is a diplomat, not some lout on the street. What's next? She gets posted in Somalia and says "Man, I haven't eaten all day, I feel like a Somali child?"

[Lurker]

Two wrongs don't make a right. We have our own social problems' date=' but that does not absolve her of blame for what she said. She is a diplomat, not some lout on the street. What's next? She gets posted in Somalia and says "[i']Man, I haven't eaten all day, I feel like a Somali child?"

Summed up perfectly. :hatsoff: Although that analogy made me laugh for some reason...I am so going to hell :((

[Guest Gunner]

Now if your assertion is Indians are guilty of doing it amongst themselves. Sure. Heck that most likely was the reason this lady probably made that comment thinking it would fly as humor. xxx

This is exactly what I am saying. She just has the feeling based on observing Indians that this sort of comment flies and would be seen as humour. I never said she was right in what she did. I said she felt encouraged by what she had seen here.

[Lurker]

This is exactly what I am saying. She just has the feeling based on observing Indians that this sort of comment flies and would be seen as humour. I never said she was right in what she did. I said she felt encouraged by what she had seen here.

Hmm so I suppose we are saying the same thing, albeit differently. Bottomline, she made a huge mistake and should be penalized for it. End of story.

[Guest Gunner]

Two wrongs don't make a right. We have our own social problems' date=' but that does not absolve her of blame for what she said. She is a diplomat, not some lout on the street. What's next? She gets posted in Somalia and says "Man, I haven't eaten all day, I feel like a Somali child?"[/quote'] How many times have you heard someone make fun of a somali child? I can answer truthfully for myself none. How many times have you heard the tamils are dark/black comment? I have heard it plenty of times and to top it all sometimes to me thinking I am not tamil based on my appearance and language skills. In case 1 everyone knows it is a booboo, in case 2 many might think it is just national humour.

[Temujin Khaghan]

Enna kudumai saravana ithu... thuu dinemma jeevitham!