Blue Panther Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 A look at the salient features of Jan Lokpal Bill: 1. An institution called LOKPAL at the centre and LOKAYUKTA in each state will be set up 2. Like Supreme Court and Election Commission, they will be completely independent of the governments. No minister or bureaucrat will be able to influence their investigations. 3. Cases against corrupt people will not linger on for years anymore: Investigations in any case will have to be completed in one year. Trial should be completed in next one year so that the corrupt politician, officer or judge is sent to jail within two years. 4. The loss that a corrupt person caused to the government will be recovered at the time of conviction. 5. How will it help a common citizen: If any work of any citizen is not done in prescribed time in any government office, Lokpal will impose financial penalty on guilty officers, which will be given as compensation to the complainant. 6. So, you could approach Lokpal if your ration card or passport or voter card is not being made or if police is not registering your case or any other work is not being done in prescribed time. Lokpal will have to get it done in a month's time. You could also report any case of corruption to Lokpal like ration being siphoned off, poor quality roads been constructed or panchayat funds being siphoned off. Lokpal will have to complete its investigations in a year, trial will be over in next one year and the guilty will go to jail within two years. 7. But won't the government appoint corrupt and weak people as Lokpal members? That won't be possible because its members will be selected by judges, citizens and constitutional authorities and not by politicians, through a completely transparent and participatory process. 8. What if some officer in Lokpal becomes corrupt? The entire functioning of Lokpal/ Lokayukta will be completely transparent. Any complaint against any officer of Lokpal shall be investigated and the officer dismissed within two months. 9. What will happen to existing anti-corruption agencies? CVC, departmental vigilance and anti-corruption branch of CBI will be merged into Lokpal. Lokpal will have complete powers and machinery to independently investigate and prosecute any officer, judge or politician. 10. It will be the duty of the Lokpal to provide protection to those who are being victimized for raising their voice against corruption.
triam Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Who watches the watchmen? Im afraid, this creates another layer that is elected through meritocracy (judges, constitutional authorities, citizens (what does this mean a separate electoral process?)), just as well remove voting rights for uneducated people then. Too much power to to few people who in essence are elected from the elite of the masses. I admire the principle of eliminating corruption, I do not think this is the way to go
Trichromatic Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Please delete this poll and create a new open poll.
Vijay.Sharma Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 BP, is it possible for you to provide some of the salient features of the UPA's Lokpal Bill so that comparison can be done readily?
asterix Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Mods, if you find this video objectionable, please feel free to delete it. nSYLuGd44uk
bihutoli Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 BP' date=' is it possible for you to provide some of the salient features of the UPA's Lokpal Bill so that comparison can be done readily?[/quote'] Second this! There were statements that many of the clauses of the Jan Lokpal bill were incorporated in the government lokpal bill. Would like to see what they were!
asterix Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 ^^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Lokpal_Bill#Complete_set_of_differences_between_Jan_Lokpal_and_Lokpal_bill http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/lokpal.html
bihutoli Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Thanks asterix! The govt proposed bill is daft! It defeats the complete purpose of the bill and reduces the lokayukt to another advisory body! And then these congress morons have the audacity to lie to the public about their commitment to fight corruption.
asterix Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Thanks asterix! The govt proposed bill is daft! It defeats the complete purpose of the bill and reduces the lokayukt to another advisory body! And then these congress morons have the audacity to lie to the public about their commitment to fight corruption. No wonder it's been called, "Jokepal Bill".. The Kangressi's are making this as PM & Judiciary issue.. The main issues are something else.. Fainance controlled by Finance minster, Ruling party will have 5 members in the 11 member Lokpal committee, CBI out of Lokpal, Govt. will appoint Lokpal and can take action against Lokpal, No MPs too coming under Lokpal, Taking action against the Govt. officials will be under Govt. departments and the most important this -> [Two to five years of imprisonment and fine. The accused can file complaint against complainant in a court. Interestingly, prosecutor and all expenses of this case will be provided by the government to the accused. The complainant will also have to pay a compensation to the accused.]...
Vijay.Sharma Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 No wonder it's been called, "Jokepal Bill".. The Kangressi's are making this as PM & Judiciary issue.. The main issues are something else.. Fainance controlled by Finance minster, Ruling party will have 5 members in the 11 member Lokpal committee, CBI out of Lokpal, Govt. will appoint Lokpal and can take action against Lokpal, No MPs too coming under Lokpal, Taking action against the Govt. officials will be under Govt. departments and the most important this -> [Two to five years of imprisonment and fine. The accused can file complaint against complainant in a court. Interestingly, prosecutor and all expenses of this case will be provided by the government to the accused. The complainant will also have to pay a compensation to the accused.]...This is a joke. I don't understand what state of mind Congress (and UPA) have been while proposing their version of the bill. This, in spite of MMS himself requesting that the PMO come under the purview of Lokpal. Can't these people sense the under current and such thick vibes flowing that you can actually cut them? Seriously something is wrong with the Congress and UPA. They are coming across very arrogantly. ps: thanks for the links for comparing the two bills
asterix Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 If you go deep into Govts. jokepal bill, they've agreed to the PM coming under the preview of Lokpal "after he/she demits office but there's a cooling off period before Lokpal can lay it's hands on PM"..If the PM comes to the office again, the "cooling off" periods shifts to next 5 years after the second time he/she demits office.. So in effect Lokpal has very little chance on catching a smart PM backed by a major party.. :giggle:
Trichromatic Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 [Two to five years of imprisonment and fine. The accused can file complaint against complainant in a court. Interestingly' date= prosecutor and all expenses of this case will be provided by the government to the accused. The complainant will also have to pay a compensation to the accused.]... Then there is stiffer punishment for the complainant than the corrupt government servant. If the Special Court concludes that the complaint is frivolous or false, the citizen faces a minimum of two years of punishment. But if the corruption charges against government servant are proved, there is a minimum of six months of punishment for the corrupt government servant! Govt is trying to ensure that practically no one dares to complain against anyone. We already know how difficult it is to prove anything in Indian courts.
asterix Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 I was aghast to see an panelist in NDTV Buck Stops here tonight (Kancha Illaiyya) trying very hard to give this movement a castist colours..He was trying to say that this movement by Anna Hazare is actually a upper cast, upper-middle class movement backed by Hindu rightwing ideology and no Dalit, minorities etc should support this movement.. I'm pretty sure Congress will 'latch on this brilliant idea'..
asterix Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 Govt is trying to ensure that practically no one dares to complain against anyone. We already know how difficult it is to prove anything in Indian courts. On top of that, so may RTI activists are getting killed. Today one RTI actvist and a Anna Hazare supporter was murdered in Bhopal.. Hat's off to those who are fighting the system and getting killed..
Stuge Posted August 16, 2011 Posted August 16, 2011 ^^I'm not all surprised because NDTV is a pro Konge channel ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ shehla masood :RIP:RTI activist and anna hazare supporter
Stuge Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 who supported govt lok pal bill fact is both the bills are not upto the mark .Jan lok pal is draconian in its form and Govt lok pal is lame and useless .We need a cross between both .
asterix Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 who supported govt lok pal bill fact is both the bills are not upto the mark .Jan lok pal is draconian in its form and Govt lok pal is lame and useless .We need a cross between both . I think lot of awareness is required. Today Kejriwal said that actually the Lokpal in their Janalokpal bill has less powers than a Grade B Incometax officer. A grade B Incometax officer has powers to initiate investigations against Chief Justice of India and even Prime Minister, make a case and give a penalty judgement too. A Lokpal can merely investigate whatever cases is put in his/her office and then recommend the case to the Judiciary. It doesn't has any powers to start investigations and give a penalty judgement. It can only refer the case to the judiciary.. So we have to first educate ourselves about these bills, before passing comments like it's "draconian" etc. Fecking even if it's "draconian", so be it. For too long the corrupt have eaten away the country. Everybody looted India..Even it's own people and stashed al the money abroad..Even it's draconian, so be it. PS: nothing will happen.. you think the political class is stupid to sign on it's own death wish? They'll not even pass this bill. Fecking 42 years has passed by since the first Lokpal bill was proposed..
ravishingravi Posted August 19, 2011 Posted August 19, 2011 Comparing AnnaÃÔ Lokpal to the GovernmentÃÔ 1. STAFFING: Government Proposal: There would be up to nine members of the Lokpal, including a chairperson, who would have to be a former chief justice or judge in the Supreme Court of India. At least half the other members would have to come from the judiciary. For the remaining spots, candidates would be required to have at least 25 years of experience in areas including anti-corruption policy, public administration, finance and law. These people would be appointed by a committee of eight, including the prime minister, Lok Sabha speaker, Lok Sabha opposition leader, Rajya Sabha opposition leader, one Cabinet minister, one judge, one legal scholar and one person of “eminence in public life.” Anna Hazare Team Proposal: There would be 10 members of the Lokpal and one chairperson. A search committee comprised of members of civil society and former heads of independent government agencies like the Central Election Commission and Comptroller and Auditor General would provide a short list of recommendations. Final selection would be done by a committee comprised of the PM, leader of the opposition in the Lok Sabha, the two youngest judges of the Supreme Court, two youngest Chief Justices of High Courts, the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Chief Election Commissioner. 2. JURISDICTION Government: The Lokpal could investigate a prime minister only once he or she leaves office, and also would have power to probe cabinet ministers, parliamentarians and senior bureaucrats, as well as bodies and trusts that receive public donations or government funds. While it isn’t stated explicitly, the bill could apply to many non-governmental organizations. The bill wouldn’t cover the judiciary; the government has proposed handling that through a separate Judicial Standards and Accountability Bill. Hazare’s Team: The Lokpal would have powers over sitting or retired PMs, ministers, bureaucrats and the judiciary. 3. TIME-BOUND INVESTIGATIONS Government: The Lokpal would have an investigative wing that would carry out a preliminary inquiry within a maximum of three months of receiving a complaint. On the basis of that inquiry, which would include a hearing for the person accused, the Lokpal would decide whether to proceed further. It must complete any investigation within a year of the original complaint, but preferably six months. After that, the ombudsman must file a complaint in a special corruption court, recommend disciplinary action or dismiss the complaint. A trial must be completed within a year. This can be extended, three months at a time, to an extra year, provided that reasons for requiring the extra time are provided in writing. Hazare’s Team: The Lokpal would have to complete any corruption investigation within a year and would then file a case in trial court. The court would have to complete the trial and announce punishment within the next year. 4. INVESTIGATIVE POWERS Government: The Lokpal would have broad-ranging powers to collect documents from government agencies, but only the Home Ministry would be allowed to approve a phone tap in the course of an investigation. Hazare’s Team: The Lokpal would have authority to order phone surveillance, in addition to other investigative powers. 5. FRIVOLOUS COMPLAINTS Government: The Lokpal would punish frivolous complaints with jail time of two to five years and/or a fine of 25,000 rupees ($555) to 200,000 rupees. Hazare’s Team: There would be only fines, no imprisonment, for frivolous complaints, except for complaints against Lokpal members and staff. In these cases, a frivolous complaint could be punished by three months jail as well as a fine. 6. SCOPE Government: The Lokpal would be limited to investigation of offenses under the 1988 Prevention of Corruption Act. Hazare’s Team: The Lokpal would also tackle cases when government officials don’t provide promised services to the public – such as issuance of food ration cards – treating those as instances of corruption. 7. POWERS TO REMOVE OFFICIALS Government: The Lokpal could advise that an official be removed from office, after it conducts an investigation, but the authority to actually remove an official would rest with the central government. Hazare’s Team: The Lokpal would have authority to remove a government official after conducting an investigation. Such a move could be challenged in court. 8. FAST-TRACKING CASES Government: The draft bill allows for special courts to be set up to try corruption cases. Hazare’s Team: High Courts would have special benches to fast-track corruption cases emanating from Lokpal investigations. 9. WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION Government: No such provision in the Lokpal. A separate law to protect whistleblowers cleared the Cabinet a year ago and was later introduced in the lower house of Parliament, where it is now in committee. Hazare’s Team: The Lokpal would be required to provide protection to whistleblowers. 10. STATES Government: The bill only creates a Lokpal for the central government. Hazare’s Team: The central Lokpal would be accompanied by similar 11-member bodies in every state so that state-level bureaucrats and politicians are also held accountable. The proposal doesn’t say whether these would absorb or replace the existing anti-corruption ombudsman agencies that already exist in several states.
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