Dravid in ODIs/T20 now..WTF?? Disaster waiting to happen!!

[pinkfreud]

I don't understand why Dravid is getting the brickbats for yesterday's loss. People like Dhobi and Kohli who are supposed to be good in the shorter format just :fail:ed yesterday at crucial junctures of the match, what dumba** shots they played to get out.... The blame for yesterday's loss should be mostly pinned on our bowlers. They were too bloody embarrassing to watch.

[gaurav92]

I don't understand why Dravid is getting the brickbats for yesterday's loss. People like Dhobi and Kohli who are supposed to be good in the shorter format just :fail:ed yesterday at crucial junctures of the match, what dumba** shots they played to get out.... The blame for yesterday's loss should be mostly pinned on our bowlers. They were too bloody embarrassing to watch.

+1

[fineleg]

I don't understand why Dravid is getting the brickbats for yesterday's loss. People like Dhobi and Kohli who are supposed to be good in the shorter format just :fail:ed yesterday at crucial junctures of the match, what dumba** shots they played to get out.... The blame for yesterday's loss should be mostly pinned on our bowlers. They were too bloody embarrassing to watch.

Precisely. It was a decent score, and RD did his job at that stage of inn, and good runs by Rahane and Raina.

[rkt.india]

Good inn by RD today, it was a good Pship with Rahane rrulezz!!!

No..it was not.

[fineleg]

^ Huh ok! Too much of T20 circus?

[rkt.india]

I don't understand why Dravid is getting the brickbats for yesterday's loss. People like Dhobi and Kohli who are supposed to be good in the shorter format just :fail:ed yesterday at crucial junctures of the match, what dumba** shots they played to get out.... The blame for yesterday's loss should be mostly pinned on our bowlers. They were too bloody embarrassing to watch.

Who said Kohli and Dhoni are good in T20. They are good in 50 over match where they can take their own time and then start playing shots. Here in T20, they have to hit from the first ball which they cannot do. There is only one player who can start hitting from the ball one and can make the mockery of any field that is Raina. Otherwise, this whole team is not suited to T20. WE were short 20-25 runs because of slow partnership between Rahane and Dravid. 30 in 3 overs and than only 59 by 9 overs, that is 29 runs in 6 overs including PP Overs that set the score back. Rahul Dravid is selected for ODIs, but it is a bad luck that we play ODI in the form of T20. and for bowlers, it was a wet ground, so no swing with wet ball, no turn with wet ball. We had to score runs to make for bowling and playing 4 bowlers that is why we play 7 batsmen. Around 8 runs an over in a T20 on a flat deck is not enough to defend with these kind of bowlers. Conditions were also tough for the bowlers.

[gaurav92]

No..it was not.

AT that stage, had we lost Dravid, we would have lost a few more due to inexperience of our batting and the temptation of powerplay restrictions. He did his job along with Raina and Rahane. I think 188 on that track was a defendable score and the way we bowled really showed that even if he had played a 20 ball 50 an India would have got to 210-220, we still would have ended up on the losing side. The bowling was so poor :((

[rkt.india]

^ Huh ok! Too much of T20 circus?

It was good for an ODI, but istwas literally a T20 game at the end of the day.

[fineleg]

@g92's post: ^ Yes, thats the key - you have to look at the situation. At that point in time, RD was rotating strike well and hitting the interspersed boundaries too. P'ship with Rahane was important at that time. Rrulezzz is missing the whole point of the P'ship.

[rkt.india]

AT that stage' date=' had we lost Dravid, we would have lost a few more due to inexperience of our batting and the temptation of powerplay restrictions. He did his job along with Raina and Rahane. I think 188 on that track was a defendable score and the way we bowled really showed that even if he had played a 20 ball 50 an India would have got to 210-220, we still would have ended up on the losing side. The bowling was so poor :(([/quote'] Yaar bowlers had nothing on offer with wet ball. There was no swing or spin when ball is wet. It comes on to the bat nicely. This was the same RR we had in T20 match as well and then we said we were 15-20 runs short. Same here. 8 runs an over is not good enough in a T20 game. It is a competitive RR but not match winning against a good side when we play 4 bowlers, 7 batsmen need to make up for it.

[gaurav92]

Who said Kohli and Dhoni are good in T20. They are good in 50 over match where they can take their own time and then start playing shots. Here in T20, they have to hit from the first ball which they cannot do. There is only one player who can start hitting from the ball one and can make the mockery of any field that is Raina. Otherwise, this whole team is not suited to T20. WE were short 20-25 runs because of slow partnership between Rahane and Dravid. 30 in 3 overs and than only 59 by 9 overs, that is 29 runs in 6 overs including PP Overs that set the score back. Rahul Dravid is selected for ODIs, but it is a bad luck that we play ODI in the form of T20.

WTF are you on ? rkt bhai aapko khud ko nahi maalum ki aap kya bol rahe ho :hysterical: Kohli and Dhoni play IPL really well and IPL = T20. And listen, Dhoni is a genuine FTB - he doesn't like when the ball seams and swings, he is very likely to las hat one outside the off stump an edge it to the keeper :hehe: Yes Raina is a good T20 player and can start hitting the boundaries from ball 1, but that doesn't mean we want all players to do that, do we ? We need some players who can play the anchor role and not lose their wickets and try and score big in the end. Its such a shame that fans treat T20 as come in and slog from ball one kind of a game. T20 is still a form a Cricket and every ****ing game in Cricket needs a strong partnership for the late flourish. I back Dravid, he did pretty well, he played his part along with Rahane.

[rkt.india]

@g92's post: ^ Yes, thats the key - you have to look at the situation. At that point in time, RD was rotating strike well and hitting the interspersed boundaries too. P'ship with Rahane was important at that time. Rrulezzz is missing the whole point of the P'ship.

yes..Partnership was good but it was not a 50 over game, you need to score runs as well as a high RR. You don't expect next batsmen to come and hit from the ball one at the end and not many can do this.

[rkt.india]

WTF are you on ? rkt bhai aapko khud ko nahi maalum ki aap kya bol rahe ho :hysterical: Kohli and Dhoni play IPL really well and IPL = T20. And listen, Dhoni is a genuine FTB - he doesn't like when the ball seams and swings, he is very likely to las hat one outside the off stump an edge it to the keeper :hehe: Its such a shame that fans treat T20 as come in and slog from ball one kind of a game. T20 is still a form a Cricket and every ****ing game in Cricket needs a strong partnership for the late flourish. I back Dravid, he did pretty well, he played his part along with Rahane.

Check their records and they both do not really bat in IPL very well, left alone international T20. Kohli only had a decent IPL in 2011, same is with Dhoni who to is hit and miss in IPL as well. Both are not really T20 batsmen. I don't really rate them as T20 batsmen.

Yes Raina is a good T20 player and can start hitting the boundaries from ball 1, but that doesn't mean we want all players to do that, do we ? We need some players who can play the anchor role and not lose their wickets and try and score big in the end.

Bhai that is good for ODI only but not in T20s. You dont need to hit every ball to maintain RR and expecting new batsmen to score 60-70 run in last 5 overs is too much. You expect every batsmen to have SR of 125 at least if not 150+ in T20s.

[gaurav92]

Yaar bowlers had nothing on offer with wet ball. There was no swing or spin when ball is wet. It comes on to the bat nicely. This was the same RR we had in T20 match as well and then we said we were 15-20 runs short. Same here. 8 runs an over is not good enough in a T20 game. It is a competitive RR but not match winning against a good side when we play 4 bowlers' date=' 7 batsmen need to make up for it.[/quote'] In ODIs there are hardly anything on the track for bowlers. And the wet outfield and wet ball - Well even in India, when there is dew, they do have to bowl and defend decent scores. If you cant adjust yourself to bowling in wet conditions, then you are not a capable international bowler. In India, you would see dew in the months of Nov-Feb. There, if we are asked to defend 188 in 23 overs, would you say the track had nothing for the bowler and hence we lost ? When there is nothing on offer to bowlers, the bowler has to use his brains, vary his pace, line length, bowl with accuracy and outfox the batsman rather than bowling predictable lines. Let me as you a question, on a greentop wicket, if a batsman slashes a wide half volley to the cover boundary for four and in the very next ball, plays the same stroke and get caught in the slips, what will you say ? I am sure you would say - There was no need for that stroke as he had already played one earlier and got 4 out of it. Loose shot, poor shot selection etc etc, here the batsman will say - There was nothing on offer for us on this wicket, it was a greentop wicket, full of live grass. Now tell me did the bowlers lost the game for us or the batsman ?

[rkt.india]

In ODIs there are gardly anything on the track for bowlers. And the wet outfield and wet ball - Well even in India, when there is dew, they do have to bowl and defend decent scores. If you cant adjust yourself to bowling in wet conditions, then you are not a capable international bowler. In India, you would see dew in the months of Nov-Feb. There, if we are asked to defend 188 in 23 overs, would you say the track had nothing for the bowler and hence we lost ? When there is nothing on offer to bowlers, the bowler has to use his brains, vary his pace, line length, bowl with accuracy and outfox the batsman rather than bowling predictable lines. Let me as you a question, on a greentop wicket, if a batsman slashes a wide half volley to the cover boundary for four and in the very next ball, plays the same stroke and get caught in the slips, what will you say ? I am sure you would say - There was no need for that stroke as he had already played one earlier and got 4 out of it. Loose shot, poor shot selection etc etc, here the batsman will say - There was nothing on offer for us on this wicket, it was a greentop wicket, full of live grass. Now tell me did the bowlers lost the game for us or the batsman ?

Bhai, we play 7 batsmen for those extra runs, and had only 4 bowlers then they have to make up and score those extra runs to save the team. At one point, we say we are batting dependent and then time comes to score runs we blame bowlers. We already play a bowler short to have more batsmen so that we can score those extra runs and we failed in both last T20s, even in ODI, we failed to score those extra cushion runs. So who to blame, batting or bowling for this. Expecting miracles from these bowlers is not worth that is why we play 7 batsmen. Remember the match against England in 2007 T20 WC, we scored 218 runs and still England just about chased them more than 200 runs while chasing in 20 overs. We had those extra 20-25 runs that time and that is why we won that time. 7 batsmen need to score those extra runs if there is nothing in the pitch. Too much respect given to Bopara and Swann.

[rkt.india]

Dhoni and Kohli both are kind of batsmen who needs time to settle and then they can score quick runs.

[gaurav92]

yes..Partnership was good but it was not a 50 over game' date=' you need to score runs as well as a high RR. You don't expect next batsmen to come and hit from the ball one at the end and not many can do this.[/quote'] Its not as if they wanted to bottle up runs, they wanted to keep wickets intact in the end and go for the kill in the last few overs, but sadly that did not happen and they ere out. And listen, you do expect the next few batsman known for their big hitting to come in and start hitting from ball one, they are batting lower down the order for exactly that reason.

[gaurav92]

Bhai, we play 7 batsmen for those extra runs, and had only 4 bowlers then they have to make up and score those extra runs to save the team. At one point, we say we are batting dependent and then time comes to score runs we blame bowlers. We already play a bowler short to have more batsmen so that we can score those extra runs and we failed in both last T20s, even in ODI, we failed to score those extra cushion runs. So who to blame, batting or bowling for this. Expecting miracles from these bowlers is not worth that is why we play 7 batsmen.

If we say our batting is strength why do we play 7 batsman? Why can't we trust our batting and go in with 5 bowlers to cover that weakness of 5th bowler? The truth is we are 4 bowlers short, we play with 7 batsman and 4 - no utility players. We call them bowlers just because they bowl. In that case, we might as well play 11 batsman as there will be 4-5 who can bowl :giggle: Our bowling has really been down to dumps this season, we need to rotate a few bowlers, have some serious fitness camps so as to make them match fit wen needed and first and foremost - Ban IPL. This ****ing tourney has been the major setback for Indian test team. Its time now we throw this tourney away from the country otherwise it will spoil the future of many more youngsters :(

Dhoni and Kohli both are kind of batsmen who needs time to settle and then they can score quick runs.

Yes. But that doesn't mean you play 5 dots and try and smash the final ball for six just because you need time to settle down, even in the final over. Sometimes you get time, an sometimes you don't, so you hav to be prepared for both the scenarios. I am not blaming Kohli or Dhoni for the loss, I know its not easy to score quick runs, sometimes it pays off and sometime it doesn't. I am blaming the bowlers whose exemplary discipline has been such a motivation to watch :hail::hail::hail::hail:

[rkt.india]

Its not as if they wanted to bottle up runs, they wanted to keep wickets intact in the end and go for the kill in the last few overs, but sadly that did not happen and they ere out. And listen, you do expect the next few batsman known for their big hitting to come in and start hitting from ball one, they are batting lower down the order for exactly that reason.

This happens very often we left the charge too late. It is not possible to suddenly start scoring at 10+ an over from 6-7 an overs. There is no one expect Raina who can hit the ball from get go.

Kohli did not get many chances in the first 2 IPL, and from IPL 3, Kohli has been magnificent in IPL T20. In the first edition, he always came in at Number 76,7 same goes for IPL 2, he got to bat at no.4,5 only from IPL 3 onwards where he flourished. And Dhoni comes into bat at no.6, sometimes no.5 and some times even at 4. He usually comes in in the last few overs to go for the blast, and his SR is way better in IPL than in International T20.

You himself admitted that Kohli batted up the order and get settled and then started playing his shots that is why he was successful in this IPL. This was not the case here as he came too late. He had to go whacking early. Same is with Dhoni, he too has very few good innings in IPL at no. 6-7 because he usually fails to launch an attack from ball one. I would like him to bat at 3 if overs are cut like yesterday. Here we have too many consolidators likes of Rahaane, Dravid, and Kohli.

Stop rating batsman from their strike rates, thats the last thing one can ask for. A batsman like Dravid need not focus much on strike rates and stuff, his main job was to build a strong foundation for the late order hitters to explode in the end. Had Dravid tried to slog from ball one, you would have said - Ohhh Such a silly man, don't even know that he should have preserved his wicket and played this shot in the later overs, Gosh he just threw his wicket away. Why this double standard for Dravid ?????? He has done all you could ask for from a Cricketer, keeping, opening under tough circumstances, no.3, no.4, no. 5 and even came back to play the ODIs after being thrown out without any reason. And still people question his ability, its such a shame that people have forgotten his performances and are now blaming him for having low strike rate in a useless 23 over curtailed game where the bowlers didn't bowl a single decent ball.

I don't rate batsmen from T20 and did not say anything about quality of a batsmen, but in T20, a batsmen is always rated for his SR that is why likes of Pollard are wanted everywhere in T20 tournaments because of his SR. Had Kohli or Dhoni bated at 3, they too would have taken deliveries to settle but at the end they would have made up for it. I have not said David is to be blamed. I just pointed out the failure in strategy when the game is shortened to T20. If they had lost a wicket or too in the attempt of maintain a run rate, Dravid was always there to hold it. My argument is someone else should have come after we had a fast start who could settle down and hit the blows as the inning went on. Dravid was surely not that kind of man.

[gaurav92]

I dont rate batsmen from T20' date=' but in T20, a batsmen will be rated for his SR. Had Kohli or Dhoni bated at 3, t[b']hey too would have taken deliveries to settle but at the end they would have made up for it.

No, how can you be sure ? Even they could have got set and thrown it away just like Dravid :dontknow:. Its not like Dravid wanted to get out. Even Dhoni and Kohli could have gone out for a run a ball 20 odd. So you know that they would have go set before playing stroke, and Dravid did the same, its just unfortunate that he could carry on and score big after he got set and did all the hard work. He is after all a human being. So final word from you - you feel that bowlers were at their absolute best an it was just the fact that there was nothing on offer for the bowlers that made them look ordinary?