Pathetic state of Indian bowling

[rkt.india]

Inb4 rkt's post about how these stats don't mean anything and that Munaf should be dropped.

Tiger80 has your answer. Munaf was rubbish in WC as well except Pak match where all three pacers bowled well. Nehra and Munaf both bowled in the same match and this is the only match we can talk about them. Otherwise, they were clueless. His stats looking good in last one year because he gets lots of cheap wickets.

[div]

Really ' date='thank god you are not selector ,yesterday when Munaf was thrashed so many people were writing that our medium pacers are like part timers and you want to pick Munaf ahead of Broad[/quote'] It is not about one match or one series, you can see Munaf has better career economy.Bowling in India is the real test for pace bowlers and Broad always struggled.

[TheYuvi02]

Tiger80 has your answer. Munaf was rubbish in WC as well except Pak match where all three pacers bowled well. Nehra and Munaf both bowled in the same match and this is the only match we can talk about them. Otherwise' date=' they were clueless.[/quote'] munaf is **** now... end of

[maniac]

I think we are impatient when it comes to fast bowlers...Look at the pattern here... Look at the pattern here-Zaheer,Sreeshanth,Ishanth,Munaf,Nehra-All started with a bang...then fizzled out for a while and then came back strong to be regulars in one format or the other atleast for a while.This could be attributed to the fact that they were given a decent run before they were dropped and given time to re-invent themselves. Zaheer's 2nd coming when he cut down his pace and developed skills to outfox the batsmen Munna/Nehra lost pace but became decent ODI options Ishanth worked hard enough to make a strong comeback Sreeshanth came back rejuvenated but kinda looks like he is fizzled out again eventhough I personally think he is been handled poorly by the mgmnt Vinay Kumar,Mithun,Dinda,Unadkat,Yadav and a few more bowlers are tried and then dumped...They are not given enough confidence or time to groom themselves into better international bowlers Look at players like Dinda,Mithun,Yadav etc never given a decent chance or neither groomed to eventually phase in to the squad.All the 3 bowlers mentioned have the pace but were not persisted with before we could identify their strengthsAaron may go the same way too. Also applicable to Vinay Kumar and Unadkat to a certain extent.They clearly don't have the pace or skills but clearly atleast with Vinay he has shown to bowl a few tight overs at the start of an innings,why not improve this aspect and try to groom him into atleast a LOI bowler. Just a hypothetical situation before haters really start killing me for saying that.All I am trying to say is since we have invested so much and given chances to these bowlers why not and try and identify their strengths and groom them accordingly

[maniac]

^ Also Balaji and Pathan need to be added to the list...when Pathan lost his swing and pace he was still a decent LOI option...May never make it into the starting x1 but always could have been kept around in the LOI scheme of things given his batting ability...I don't think he bowls much worse than Jadeja and his brother and I rate him a better batsman than the other two. Balaji was another player that we failed to plan for

[Tiger80]

It is not about one match or one series' date=' you can see Munaf has better career economy.Bowling in India is the real test for pace bowlers and Broad always struggled.[/quote'] Bowling in India is no benchmark for pacers.We have medium pacers who take lots of wickets in domestic cricket but fails to make an impression in international cricket.Also take a look at India new zealand series http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/467881.html Munaf barely picked 2 wickets in 4 matches that too against a minnow like New Zealand in India.His major chunk of wickets came in SA series and world cup .In world cup there were many minnows in it and only 3 matches were important . Also Munaf's Strike rate and average is better than Anderson in last one year too ,so can we say we have better bowler than Broad and Anderson?

[CrazyCric]

Munaf is a spinner ,Better than Bhaji

[youngindia]

Just a hypothetical situation before haters really start killing me for saying that.All I am trying to say is since we have invested so much and given chances to these bowlers why not and try and identify their strengths and groom them accordingly

if they have the talent, they will measure up. if they have the talent, they won't. vinay is not going to measure up becuase he is mediocre. he has to be removed. isn't that obvious? first the talent has to be identified . then it has to be nurtuired. if the quality of talents are dubious, there is no point. your views are unsuited to international sports totally.international sports is not like a normal office job where average jobs are done by several average people. you have to compete against quality talent from other countries. and you are going to compete with vinays ? :hysterical: international sports is a field involving complexity,hence there is no room for mediocres there in a top tier team or country. i suggest you think deeply about what inetrnational sports requires, what it takes to compete against the best in the world and then you will understand your views are unrealistic and out of place. because vinays are not going to be competitive and they will drag the team level down.its that bloody siimple. don't confuse professional requirements of international sports with likes and dislikes. its about competition with other countries and finding the best of talent in india .

[div]

1)Bowling in India is no benchmark for pacers.We have medium pacers who take lots of wickets in domestic cricket but fails to make an impression in international cricket.Also take a look at India new zealand series http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/467881.html 2)Munaf barely picked 2 wickets in 4 matches that too against a minnow like New Zealand in India.His major chunk of wickets came in SA series and world cup .In world cup there were many minnows in it and only 3 matches were important . 3)Also Munaf's Strike rate and average is better than Anderson in last one year too ,so can we say we have better bowler than Broad and Anderson?

1)If performing outside the Subcontinent is the benchmark for Indian batsmen ,then bowling in India is also a benchmark for pace bowlers.You cant have different set of rules and we are talking abt international players not domestic players. 2)New Zealand was world cup semi finalists :haha:.Ireland,Netharlands etc are called minnows Broad Vs Netharlands-10-2-65-2 Vs Ireland- 9-0-73-0 3)Yes Broad n Anderson are ordinary ODI bowlers,Munaf is slightly better.

[Cricket Tragic]

Tiger80 has your answer. Munaf was rubbish in WC as well except Pak match where all three pacers bowled well. Nehra and Munaf both bowled in the same match and this is the only match we can talk about them. Otherwise' date=' they were clueless. His stats looking good in last one year because he gets lots of cheap wickets.[/quote'] The guy didn't even know that you have to look at wickets/game and the average and not the total number of wickets because the number of games played is different.

[Blue Panther]

What will u do with these bowlers? it is very frustrating that trundlers are picked ahead of varun. Varun and umesh should have been in the team without any doubt. I am seriously thinking abt stop following cricket now.

[Tiger80]

1)If performing outside the Subcontinent is the benchmark for Indian batsmen ,then bowling in India is also a benchmark for pace bowlers.You cant have different set of rules and we are talking abt international players not domestic players.

Performing in India as well as outside are benchmark not only playing India or outside it.People expect Indian batsmen to perform outside India because they are considered as gods of batting.Broad and Anderson are not in that category ,Also please tell me which Outside subcontinent pacer did well in India or subcontinent ?

2)New Zealand was world cup semi finalists .Ireland,Netharlands etc are called minnows Broad Vs Netharlands-10-2-65-2 Vs Ireland- 9-0-73-0

Even Kenya was in Semi's in 2003 and the same new zealand was defeated by Bangladesh 4-1 and India by 5-0 reaching semi's was fluke for them

3)Yes Broad n Anderson are ordinary ODI bowlers,Munaf is slightly better.

Even for some Indian fans Vinay kumar may be at par with malinga so can't do anything,but if you really believe so then please start Broad vs Munaf thread on ICF and on some international cricket forums lets see how many agree with you

[Tiger80]

The guy didn't even know that you have to look at wickets/game and the average and not the total number of wickets because the number of games played is different.

My only point in this discussion is that Stats give you a partial view and many times it could mislead people believing that so and so person is good player.Just want to give you example almost the entire Bangladesh is crap but when playing against them few of there bowlers will pick up wickets at the time when batsmen are slogging ,so these bowlers will always have better strike rate/average than some of very good bowlers of best teams .Just check Abdur Razzak's figure very good average and strike rate but I don't think he is considered as world class spinner

[Cricket Tragic]

My only point in this discussion is that Stats give you a partial view and many times it could mislead people believing that so and so person is good player.Just want to give you example almost the entire Bangladesh is crap but when playing against them few of there bowlers will pick up wickets at the time when batsmen are slogging ' date='so these bowlers will always have better strike rate/average than some of very good bowlers of best teams [b'].Just check Abdur Razzak's figure very good average and strike rate but I don't think he is considered as world class spinner

Again you're not looking deep enough. His overall stats in the period look good but who has the got the wickets against? Half the wickets are against Zimbabwe.

[saneindian]

Tiger80 has your answer. Munaf was rubbish in WC as well except Pak match where all three pacers bowled well. Nehra and Munaf both bowled in the same match and this is the only match we can talk about them. Otherwise' date=' they were clueless. [b']His stats looking good in last one year because he gets lots of cheap wickets.

LOL So Munna gets cheap wickets. Pity other pacers cannot get as many cheap wickets. Oh wait, for others the excuses are ready- captain was defensive, not enough slips, edges did not carry, batsmen weren't taking chances, fielders were crap, on another day he could have taken 4-5 wickets :--D

[gaurav92]

Tiger80 has your answer. Munaf was rubbish in WC as well except Pak match where all three pacers bowled well. Nehra and Munaf both bowled in the same match and this is the only match we can talk about them. Otherwise' date=' they were clueless. His stats looking good in last one year because he gets lots of cheap wickets.[/quote'] And the Legend RP got his wickets beating the bat on numerous occasions and then finally finding a healthy nick to the 4th slip

[rkt.india]

And the Legend RP got his wickets beating the bat on numerous occasions and then finally finding a healthy nick to the 4th slip

RP bowled better than Munaf yesterday even i he is coming after a long lay off. He bowled well ot dismiss Kieswetter and clean bowled Bresnan.

[div]

Performing in India as well as outside are benchmark not only playing India or outside it.People expect Indian batsmen to perform outside India because they are considered as gods of batting.Broad and Anderson are not in that category ,Also please tell me which Outside subcontinent pacer did well in India or subcontinent ?

Steyn,Bollinger,Johnson etc have better record in India.

Even Kenya was in Semi's in 2003 and the same new zealand was defeated by Bangladesh 4-1 and India by 5-0 reaching semi's was fluke for them

and you believe New Zealand is a minnow like Kenya.BTW England were Beaten by both Ireland and Bangladesh in the world cup,they also lost the ODI series 5-0 in India.

Even for some Indian fans Vinay kumar may be at par with malinga so can't do anything,but if you really believe so then please start Broad vs Munaf thread on ICF and on some international cricket forums lets see how many agree with you

You dont need new thread ECONOMY Munaf- 4.96 Broad-5.23 England's ground fielding is much better,other wise Munaf-4.96 Broad-6.23

[Tiger80]

Steyn,Bollinger,Johnson etc have better record in India.

Steyn is a class act ,Bollinger johnson may be better record but I don't remember any of them Destroying India in India in any series

and you believe New Zealand is a minnow like Kenya.BTW England were Beaten by both Ireland and Bangladesh in the world cup,they also lost the ODI series 5-0 in India.

New Zealand is not a minnow like Kenya but they are not playing well and its a fact ,they just reached semi final because they were against well known chokers.And yes England did not have good world cup but still they managed to defeat SA and tied with India.

You dont need new thread ECONOMY Munaf- 4.96 Broad-5.23 England's ground fielding is much better,other wise Munaf-4.96 Broad-6.23

You don't want to start new thread because very few people will pick Munaf over Broad.On the basis of same stats Tsotsobe is one of the best bowler ,better than morkel or steyn .Also ifs and buts are always there ,people can also say that if Kumble had support of Bowlers like Mcgrath and Gillespie ,and Australian fielders he could be better bowler than warne

[div]

You don't want to start new thread because very few people will pick Munaf over Broad.On the basis of same stats Tsotsobe is one of the best bowler ,better than morkel or steyn .Also ifs and buts are always there ,people can also say that if Kumble had support of Bowlers like Mcgrath and Gillespie ,and Australian fielders he could be better bowler than warne

Steyn,Morkel,Zaheer etc-better chance to earn a wicket Munaf,Broad,Tsotobe etc-average bowlers and fielding makes some difference,Indian fielding was much better in the later part of world cup and bowling looked much better. For me Munaf >Broad,May be u should start a new thread,I think it was u derailed the thread.