Shami ahmed-First impression..!!!

[Lord]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-south-africa-2013/engine/match/635657.html?bowler=48182;innings=1;view=commentary http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-champions-trophy-2013/engine/match/578614.html?bowler=48182;innings=1;view=commentary http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-south-africa-2012/engine/match/520600.html?bowler=48182;innings=1;view=commentary http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/match/463152.html?bowler=48182;innings=2;view=commentary http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/match/463151.html?bowler=48182;innings=1;view=commentary might be more:--D

[Lord]

what about last game ? again he picked wickets and bhuvi did not bhuvi kept bowling on leg stump of hughes and even with haddin he did not bowl in right areas to me he is bowling too short

yes atleast with the new ball in first 2-3 overs he should have bowled full and try to get swing but it looked like he only wanted to contain

[Old guy]

Shami got seam movement, nobody got swing in this series barring Ranchi to some extent early on. Shami is a seam and swing bowler, none of the other bowlers on either side are seam bowlers. Seam bowler will be effective on pitches which has bit of pace. Even Johnson relied on pace and bounce rather than seam to get his wickets. This series is not a place to judge bowlers, as only certain type of bowlers can survive on this. We saw in the England tour of India ODIs where Shami and Bhuvi opened the attack as to who was more effective. So we should not forget Bhuvi's contribution till date and judge him on one series which have been a graveyard for most bowlers.

last year shami was not bowling this well hell even speed was less and line was not this good too forget seam movement.. people improve..even in zimbabwe he was not this good . and bhuvi before seamed the ball too after pitching..rkt and i discussed that here plenty of time and that is what made him so effective . yeah you can have off series but do not say he was pick of our bowlers when he picked just one wicket :winky:

[Old guy]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-champions-trophy-2013/engine/match/578614.html?bowler=48182;innings=1;view=commentary got smashed at end http://www.espncricinfo.com/new-zealand-v-south-africa-2012/engine/match/520600.html?bowler=48182;innings=1;view=commentary last over 42 and not against biggest hitters http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-india-2010/engine/match/463152.html?bowler=48182;innings=2;view=commentary bowling to tail and again not at end http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-south-africa-2013/engine/match/635657.html?bowler=48182;innings=1;view=commentary again ok and not at end or against dangerous players but decent i missed one but jaddu smashed him in that no ?

[Forever Indian]

what about last game ? again he picked wickets and bhuvi did not bhuvi kept bowling on leg stump of hughes and even with haddin he did not bowl in right areas to me he is bowling too short

Yes, he was not in the best of form this ODI, still managed to bowl decently well. Shami also bowled like crap in previous ODI, it can happen to any bowler. As I said judging your Numero Uno bowler from one series is harsh. Bhuvi made a name for himself on Indian pitches vs Pak and Eng. So it's not as if he can't bowl in the subcontinent. This series is just an abberation due to the kind of pitches. This series has also been abberation for the kind of runs scored and the ease with which they have been scored.

[Forever Indian]

last year shami was not bowling this well hell even speed was less and line was not this good too forget seam movement.. people improve..even in zimbabwe he was not this good . and bhuvi before seamed the ball too after pitching..rkt and i discussed that here plenty of time and that is what made him so effective . yeah you can have off series but do not say he was pick of our bowlers when he picked just one wicket :winky:

Agree that he was not the pick of the bowlers. But after Shami he was our second best pacer by light years :--D

[Old guy]

Yes, he was not in the best of form this ODI, still managed to bowl decently well. Shami also bowled like crap in previous ODI, it can happen to any bowler. As I said judging your Numero Uno bowler from one series is harsh. Bhuvi made a name for himself on Indian pitches vs Pak and Eng. So it's not as if he can't bowl in the subcontinent. This series is just an abberation due to the kind of pitches. This series has also been abberation for the kind of runs scored and the ease with which they have been scored.

if you saw those series you will know rather then this series being an anamoly those series were which were assisting quick bowlers and swinging till 20-25 overs! those wee not normal conditions ..matches were played in cold ,damp conditions in placesl ike mohali and dharamshala which were fantastic conditions for quick bowlers this is first time he got pattas so he should learn from experience and we should not make excuses . he did bowl too short and he did not looked like picking wickets with new ball ..

[Old guy]

Agree that he was not the pick of the bowlers. But after Shami he was our second best pacer by light years :--D

no question about that.

[Forever Indian]

if you saw those series you will know rather then this series being an anamoly those series were which were assisting quick bowlers and swinging till 20-25 overs! those wee not normal conditions ..matches were played in cold ,damp conditions in placesl ike mohali and dharamshala which were fantastic conditions for quick bowlers this is first time he got pattas so he should learn from experience and we should not make excuses . he did bowl too short and he did not looked like picking wickets with new ball ..

I followed each match in that series and know that there was help for the bowlers. But tell me one other series where you have seen absolute pattas with no help for either pacers or spinners? Indian picthes will have atleast something for spinners. Which means that the batsmen try to take chances against pacers, but here they were happy to play off initial overs as they know they can go at 10+ runs an over later whenever they want. That's the main difference and that's why I am saying this is a unique series a kind of which may not happen again.

[Lord]

Thats the first one.You also have to see that SA have other options like Morkel,Steyn and Kallis who bowl at death so they dont need Tsotsobe much.In a team like India,he'd have been a regular

[Old guy]

I followed each match in that series and know that there was help for the bowlers. But tell me one other series where you have seen absolute pattas with no help for either pacers or spinners? Indian picthes will have atleast something for spinners. Which means that the batsmen try to take chances against pacers, but here they were happy to play off initial overs as they know they can go at 10+ runs an over later whenever they want. That's the main difference and that's why I am saying this is a unique series a kind of which may not happen again.

chance is one thing man but if you are not going to pitch it up and swing no opening batsman will get out.. right now we are making excuses for him cos he is young but i see room for improvement cos after all this is his home pitches and honestly i have seen worst pitches for quick bowlers which only help spinners and dont even offer bounce :giggle: he does not has reverse swing or great slower ball this is area where he can improve and also adjust his length for indian pitches. i get a feeling he has still not adjusted after CT and west indies

[Forever Indian]

chance is one thing man but if you are not going to pitch it up and swing no opening batsman will get out.. right now we are making excuses for him cos he is young but i see room for improvement cos after all this is his home pitches and honestly i have seen worst pitches for quick bowlers which only help spinners and dont even offer bounce :giggle: he does not has reverse swing or great slower ball this is area where he can improve and also adjust his length for indian pitches. i get a feeling he has still not adjusted after CT and west indies

Yeah, agree there are rooms for improvement for him. But some posters saying he is suddenly crap after this series is harsh. Also saying he doesnt deserve a test spot based on this ODI series is the height of insanity :haha:

[Old guy]

Yeah' date=' agree there are rooms for improvement for him. But some posters saying he is suddenly crap after this series is harsh. Also saying he doesnt deserve a test spot based on this ODI series is the height of insanity :haha:[/quote'] horses for courses i guess kolkata wicket will be slow and shami has played tons of matches there as its home ground.. and umesh last time bowed well here against west indies :winky: i wont mind any of these 3 playing tbh just do not play ishant

[Forever Indian]

horses for courses i guess kolkata wicket will be slow and shami has played tons of matches there as its home ground.. and umesh last time bowed well here against west indies :winky: i wont mind any of these 3 playing tbh just do not play ishant

These 3 should be our starters for SA no question. For WI, I am also sceptical as to who the 2 pacers should be. Let's see, but knowing Dhoni I think he will go with Bhuvi and Umesh.

[Old guy]

These 3 should be our starters for SA no question. For WI' date=' I am also sceptical as to who the 2 pacers should be. Let's see, but knowing Dhoni I think he will go with Bhuvi and Umesh.[/quote'] like i said any combination is fine by me.. if zack is back he hsould replace either bhuvi or shami and not umesh.. cos umesh is one guy who has ability to win us match in south africa..

[CG]

This article was posted by you. Cricket_God.

I know,Since then i have read about the physical exercises that harris had to do to get his pace up to what it is now.

[CG]

like i said any combination is fine by me.. if zack is back he hsould replace either bhuvi or shami and not umesh.. cos umesh is one guy who has ability to win us match in south africa..

If zak is in the team he plays with umesh and its shami vs bhuvi i guess practice match will be the important to see how both of them perform.

[CG]

He still went under 6 RPO and bowled well in the end in the last game. Excluding the 1st Test, he bowled better than the Aussies with the new ball in the series earlier this year. Got us crucial breakthroughs and they weren't the best wickets for a quick. On these roads, I feel its important to have someone with good pace and seam movement and Shami had it all. McKay had good seam movement as well but he lacked pace.

Pattinson was rthe best fast bowler of the series .Bhuvi had a good mohali test.

[Old guy]

If zak is in the team he plays with umesh and its shami vs bhuvi i guess practice match will be the important to see how both of them perform.

yep just wanted to make things clear that zack and umesh are our top 2 test bowlers

[SLICKR392]

Pattinson was rthe best fast bowler of the series .Bhuvi had a good mohali test.

Apart from the 1st Test, Patto was mediocre. Siddle looked more threatening than him, IMO.