Raghav_12 Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Why is this an issue? In a country of a billion population why should there only be 2000 students selected? 2000 number was good for the time IIT were conceived. Today the population is 3-4 times that. Only natural to have more seats now. 2000 was number around 1997-98. Didn't know that population has become 3-4 times in span of 10-15 years. I was under impression that India's population growth rate (annual) is around 2%.
urbestfriend Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 What has infosys and its business model to do with Narayana Murthy's comments? Chetan is clearly crossing the line when he makes a sarcastic comment about Infosys being a sweat shop. Heck, NRM is not even part of Infosys any more. Chetan is being stupid here, is he implying that only those who have started world class product/research companies can talk about the quality of IITians and rest of us have no rights? Sweat shop or not, Infosys have provided employments to lakhs of people directly and many more indirectly. They are making money from the outsourcing of low end IT jobs because they are doing it cheaply than onshore companies, so taking a cheap shot is not on.
zombiePotato Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Chetan Bhagat is turning out to be thinking man's Rakhi Sawant...
Sachin=GOD Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 IIT exam panel behind poor student quality: Super 30 founder PATNA: Anand Kumar, who founded Super 30, Bihar's widely acclaimed free coaching centre for Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) aspirants, has blamed the institutes' entrance exam panel for the poor quality of students making the cut, a concern voiced by Infosys chairman emeritus NR Narayana Murthy. Anand Kumar said if poor quality students, as felt by Narayan Murthy, were able to get into the IITs, it was the responsibility of the joint entrance examination (JEE) committee. He said that students went to private coaching institutes simply because they don't find the school education system up to the mark for the JEE. "The IITs should frame questions in such a manner that the real talent reaches there. The IITs should try to bring in greater transparency and have a proper examination pattern," Kumar told IANS. "It is because of the lack of knowledge about the IITs' pattern that the students have to run around the coaching institutes to acquire that little bit extra, which makes the ultimate difference," he said. Anand Kumar, who welcomed the reforms announced by the IITs for the JEE, said that the students needed to be applauded, rather than criticised. It is their hard work that makes them crack arguably the toughest competition. "Once the students reach the IITs, it is the job of the teachers there to provide the environment where they grow. Blaming the coaching institutes will not solve the problem. It is the professors and the teachers to teach in a manner that brings the best out of the students, who are from different backgrounds and social classes." he said. He said it was a shame that in a country like India, Hindi is plays second fiddle to English. Just because students cannot speak English, his talent can be undermined. Addressing a gathering of hundreds of former IITians at a 'Pan IIT' summit in New York, Murthy said the quality of students entering IITs had deteriorated over the years due to the "coaching classes that prepare engineering aspirants". Anand Kumar's Super 30 has helped many poor students from Bihar to enter the prestigious IITs. He had set up Super 30 to prepare 30 students for the IIT-JEE in 2002, providing free boarding, lodging and coaching to the selected aspirants. In the last nine years, 236 students from Super 30 have made it to the IIT-JEE. Most of the successful candidates have been from the less privileged sections of society. Anand Kumar, who could not go to Cambridge University in the UK for higher studies due to extreme financial constraint after the death of his father, started the Ramanujam School of Mathematics in 1992 and founded the Super 30 a decade later. Link
akshayxyz Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 All I am saying is that disproportionate attention is given to IITs/IIMs. Their contribution to higher education in India is negligible (in terms of student intake). I am not saying they should not exist, there is place for them, but the tendency of HRD ministers to spend a lot of time micro-managing these elite institutions is wrong. The real problems of education are in the villages, small towns and among the poor in India. Even in higher education, effort needs to be made to improve the state of local colleges/institutes and under funded/staffed universities. Instead of tinkering with JEE/CAT, cut offs etc the actual challenges need to tackled. I do not think we have sufficient data to say that, budget/funds wise. Anything about IIT/IIMs catch the news headlines more than others, that is it. e.g. there are 100s of suicides every day, however, one at IIT/IIM gets front page news immediately.
akshayxyz Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 You can't be serious about this. JEE rank 100 is equivalent to 10000? You better ask any IITian who would have spent 4 years in that set-up' date=' you would know the real situation.[/quote'] Did you not notice the clever choice of magic words - "basic aptitude is roughly the same". Question is, how basic and how roughly. And this is coming from someone who leaves no chance to ridicule random strangers' aptitudes on internet. ++, without attempting to generalizing it, I can also attest to seeing quite a few examples of that. And on the other hand we see some REC folks who would have performed well at IIT and doing very well w/o it. There are examples and exceptions of every kind. But on an average, there is a difference not hard to notice. It does have some truth in it, but it is unfair to blame the individuals (even partly). As the choices they make are a function of their upbringing, which is defined by the general perceptions and state of the society as a whole. E.g. During our childhood days, every other middle class parent would dream ( and try their best) to make their child engineer/doctor. And every other student out of college would take up best job, best MS or IIM. We have seen some progress on both fronts, and we will see even more. As I tried to say earlier, question paper quality may not be the magic formula. As you can filter-in and nurture quality students even based on relatively easier question paper. I would say the whole admission process has to change, but that will take time to evolve.
akshayxyz Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 On Topic. Both NRN and Bhagat have some valid points, but NRN lost it by generalizing it, and CB lost it by attacking NRN/Infy. Very irresponsible of both.
urbestfriend Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 On Topic. Both NRN and Bhagat have some valid points, but NRN lost it by generalizing it, and CB lost it by attacking NRN/Infy. Very irresponsible of both. How is NRN generalizing and How else he can make the same points without sounding generalizing?
Yoda-esque Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 How is NRN generalizing and How else he can make the same points without sounding generalizing? He said apart from the top 20 per cent of students who crack the tough IIT entrance examination and can "stand among the best anywhere in the world," quality of the remaining 80 per cent of students leave much to be desired. If thats not generalizing then what is? [Actually hes not generalizing here,hes being very specific which is even worse since I don't think hes got data to back that up] Has the % increase in student intake since the new IITs started been 80% approx.? If Yes,is he saying that none of these students deserve to make the cut ?
achilles Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Agree with a lot of posts in the thread. I guess Mr.Bhagat had a dutiful moment, when he thought the honour of the IITs and IIMs rested on his shoulders. He's turning quite controversial.
Lurker Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Haha.. What a gross generalization. One notion which I developed from my interactions that I had with REC guys- which I had plenty- that they have this life long bitterness about not being able to make it to IIT and they keep on taking swipe at IIT's and IITians, just to feel good about themselves that they didn't miss anything in life. You once again confirmed that notion. Now, if you truly believe in what you wrote here, I hope you advice everybody to chose REC's over IIT. RECs was put in along with the 2nd tier colleges. You can extend that equally to a BITS, a Anna University and my stance shall remain that students from 2nd tier colleges are generally more well rounded than a usual IITian who frankly has been pushed in a position that he has to mug up and rote to get through. This is no different by the way to difference between a MIT grad and say Texas A&M. A MIT grad will miles ahead in terms of dollars making than a Texas A&M but personally the latter will be well rounded, in terms of social skills, sporting interests etc. There is no need to get defensive here, if you are different good for you :hatsoff:
Lurker Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 2000 was number around 1997-98. Didn't know that population has become 3-4 times in span of 10-15 years. I was under impression that India's population growth rate (annual) is around 2%. lol....dude IITs didnt start in 1997. They have been around for 5 decades or so. The number of institutes did not increase till fairly recently. Which was the whole point I am making. We have been keeping the same 5-6 institutes for ever, which is a very small number in a large country like ours.
Raghav_12 Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 lol....dude IITs didnt start in 1997. They have been around for 5 decades or so. The number of institutes did not increase till fairly recently. Which was the whole point I am making. We have been keeping the same 5-6 institutes for ever' date=' which is a very small number in a large country like ours.[/quote'] From where you got this impression that seats in IIT's did not increase over a period of time? There has always been some increase in number of seats each session. I don't have data for all IIT's combined but have data for IIT Bombay. The number of Bachelors (B.Tech.) students graduating every year is shown in figure 2.2. The number has increased from 72 in 1962 to 422 in 2006 with a CAGR of 4.2% www.ese.iitb.ac.in/EnEdu.pdf I am pretty sure this would have been trend in all old IIT's across India and growth rate of seats at IIT would easily have outpaced the growth in population. At times it helps to find out about actual numbers before throwing any sweeping generalized statement.
punjabi_khota Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Narayan murthy uncle ko bolo thoda paisa vaisa daan kardo IITs ko...kitne billions leke bhagwaan ke paas jaana hai ?
yoda Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Narayan murthy uncle ko bolo thoda paisa vaisa daan kardo IITs ko...kitne billions leke bhagwaan ke paas jaana hai ? I think he gave 25 crores to IIT Kanpur.
punjabi_khota Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 I think he gave 25 crores to IIT Kanpur. Thats chump change. He is a fricking billionaire for ****'s sake. Join the giving pledge I say and donate a few 1000 crore. :giggle:
yoda Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Thats chump change. He is a fricking billionaire for ****'s sake. Join the giving pledge I say and donate a few 1000 crore. :giggle: apparently, he and his wife hardly sold any stock. as of 2006/2007 they held almost all of their infosys stock. not sure if they hold them all or have disposed off some. overall cheap yes when compared to their net worth.
ganeshran Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Thats chump change. He is a fricking billionaire for ****'s sake. Join the giving pledge I say and donate a few 1000 crore. :giggle: there are a lot of other causes in India which need his support as well.
Sachin=GOD Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Thats chump change. He is a fricking billionaire for ****'s sake. Join the giving pledge I say and donate a few 1000 crore. :giggle: he used those billions to start a venture capital fund to promote young start ups IIRC
Lurker Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 I am pretty sure this would have been trend in all old IIT's across India and growth rate of seats at IIT would easily have outpaced the growth in population. At times it helps to find out about actual numbers before throwing any sweeping generalized statement. The interesting point about that comment is that you didnt provide any actual numbers to show how the seat number have grown and yet ended up making a sarcaustic comment. There are a few couple of loopholes in your number thingy that you shared earlier. a) The number goes to 2006, and that includes this period post 2000s when new seats have been added. I thought we were talking of 2000 seats in late 90s. Please provide some numbers to that era. b) Between 1962 to 2006 there has been a sea-change in terms of streams. Computer Sciences, for example, would have been nowhere in 62 but I would guess IIT Bombay would easily have say 30-40 seats for that today, if not more. You can expand that to quite a few new streams I would think. xxx
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