West Indies tour of India, Nov-Dec 2011

[vishalvirsingh]

Varun's selection is obviously aimed at giving him a feel of test cricket so that he is ready before the Aus tour. We will surely see him play one of the test, most likely the 3rd test as this being a back to back series, ishant and Umesh, the first choice pacers would not be risked with too much of a workload before the Aus tour on flat wickets at home. As of now, IMO injuries aside, Ishant and Umesh will play the first two tests and PK will be there with Varun for the 3rd one unless we decide to play 3 seamers from the 1st test itself.

OH man..u seem to be saying with the confidence as if u r in Srikkanth's team of selctors...ha ha ha ..

[saneindian]

I will be more than happy if they go with 3+2 combo means 5 bowlers as our bowling is inexperienced and we have our full strength batting against a weak WI team with Dhoni at 6 and Ashwin can bat as well. I don't think we need 7 batsmen on Indian pitches against WI. With Gambhir, Viru, RD, SRT, VVS, and MSD, it looks enough batting for them.

5 bowlers in this series and then 4 again for the Aus series? Will be disastrous. It has be 3+1 or 2+2. Also remember even with a full stregnth batting team, our team was in danger on a number of occassions vs the Kiwis and Aussies last year. Not sure if with 5 batsmen + MSD we will be safe enough given those recent experiences.

[Blue Panther]

The only reason why people say he should be there is because he can bowl at genuine pace. That is not really enough. His FC record is not very good and if he can not- even at his pace- prise out domestic FTBs then what chance vs test batsmen. Even Mithun has done more at FC level, and has done ok if not great in his test career so far.

This is where we lack dude, Look, Vinay kumar was the highest wicket taker in domestic tourneys. Do u think he deserve a test call? Varun has played only few matches, I remember imran khan intrvw, he picked wasim akram from nowhere, it will be funny to know that wasim didnt even make his place in his college team, but imran khan selected him because he saw the fire, he saw he was bowling quick. Well, i am not comparing varun aaron with wasim akram but as u know he has the potential to be a strike bowler for india. We should select pace bowlers who has got the fire and potential to be good bowlers. We have seen what varun could do with the old ball in the odi matches, he reversed the semi old ball and got 3 wickets in his first odi bowling clean yorkers. I mean if u r not satisfied with this pefromance, then i dont have anything to say. Good luck Btwn Mithun has played 4 test matches so far and he was unimpressive.

[saneindian]

OH man..u seem to be saying with the confidence as if u r in Srikkanth's team of selctors...ha ha ha ..

Says someone who keeps pontificating about whch pacer should be in the team and who doesn't deserve to play even ranji trophy. What does that make you? The BCCI President? :winky:

[Karan114]

5 bowlers in this series and then 4 again for the Aus series? Will be disastrous. It has be 3+1 or 2+2. Also remember even with a full stregnth batting team, our team was in danger on a number of occassions vs the Kiwis and Aussies last year. Not sure if with 5 batsmen + MSD we will be safe enough given those recent experiences.

Indeed, and no Bhajji to save us this time either :winky:

[rkt.india]

5 bowlers in this series and then 4 again for the Aus series? Will be disastrous. It has be 3+1 or 2+2. Also remember even with a full stregnth batting team, our team was in danger on a number of occassions vs the Kiwis and Aussies last year. Not sure if with 5 batsmen + MSD we will be safe enough given those recent experiences.

But if we take 20 wickets with 5 bowlers and get them out early then I do not think we need to worry about batting or score big runs every time. We got into trouble against NZ because bowlers could not take wickets and they scored big while WI is a more inexperienced team in terms of batting.

[rkt.india]

The same old crap. Unless you have seen him bowl with the red ball in a test in India, do not pass judgments, he did prove doubters like you wrong in WI and England. And no PK did not struggle in the last ODI series. In every match barring the 5th one, he helped break the opening partnership, swung the white ball in the early overs, bowled nearly all of his overs in the powerplays and yet returned with decent enough figures on pitches where no one else looked like swinging or moving the ball. Could have picked a couple of wickets more, but he did not bowl badly especially when the series was yet to be won.

Early overs only....that is my point...Test is not just about early overs especially in India.

[rkt.india]

I Plus in Indian conditions we will need one of the pacers to do a holding job while the spinners attack from the other end. So Pk may not be as useless as you lot make him sound like. .

Do you think he can do a holding job? Even in England whenever he did not pickup wicket early on, he went for runs too and a guy who bowls at 115-125K max in test will be work horse, will bowl more overs than others. In this regard, even Vinay can do a holding job. He is not bad too, IMO when it comes to test, but he too well never be a strike bowler, but we still can play both PK and VK as both can do a holding job and then we can attack more with spinners.

[saneindian]

Early overs only....that is my point...Test is not just about early overs especially in India.

Who swings (conventional swing) in the death overs? And unless he has played a test or two in India, dont write him off. You and your lot wrote him off before his test debut and he answered everyone perfectly. As for going for runs in England, maybe we watched different matches in England. When our bowlers were going at 4-5 runs an over, he was the only one blocking runs from one end barring 1-2 spells here or there. He was the one whom the English batsmen were looking to play out in his spells everytime he came onto bowl, this when mostly there was absolutely no pressure from the other end. Just checked the numbers, PK bowled most number of overs/test (53 vs 43 for Ishant and 37 for Sree), had the best eco rate (2.79 vs 3.68 for Ishant and 4.44 for Sree) and obviously took most number of wickets for us. And yet he is getting panned!

[ganeshran]

Pace mafia on ICF nowadays :cantstop:

[Sir john]

eagerly waiting for tests.

[vishalvirsingh]

Umesh and Varun have really Impressed - and if they continue like this...they will be far far better than Mithun VK PK as far as Test bowling is concerned... If they can maintain lin n length at 140K+ bowling they will always be better than trundlers...getting bunch of wickets will happen sooner than later

[BeautifulGame]

The likes of Mithun and Vinay has good FC record because more of ten than not Karnataka play wickets condusive to swing bowlers.Karnataka often prepare wickets that suit (medium) fast bowling since its their strength. Whereas i havent seen how much Varon played on wkts that suit fast bowling and not roads? Seeing Saurab Tiwary's FC record i assume they often play on batting pitches. U cant just select only based on FC records particularly fast bowlers in subcontinental conditions considering the difference in pitches and no of teams in India.U have to pick more based on potential thats the best way to succeed.Otherwise we will only have trundlers in the team and will never have good bowling attack.

[Sooda]

^ Youre right, selectorial judegemnt comes into it as well. That is why Vinay has not played test cricket. Mithun in Ranji cricket was supposed to be nippier I dont think that has quite translated on to the test arena yet. There is a balance to be sought right?? Can not ignore FC cricket altogether, may as well scrap the system then. Umesh has done ok at FC cricket so his selection is a good one. Selectors seem to go totally the other way at times- selecting Unadkat when he was no where near ready being case in point. Maybe youre right and Varun has bowled on unresponsive pitches a lot, he seems to have bowled ok in EPT. It would be good to see domestic performances being rewarded more often thats all. RP Singh coming back into tests despite doing fk-all was pretty ridiculous too, the guys who plough away in Ranjis must be wondering why they bother. Over the years Ranadeb, Gagandeep, Kulkarni, Pankaj have all made squads but njot played, yet Unadkat makes his test debut based on ..not much really, a handful of good performances. They deserve a shot at test cricket before being discarded and not heard of again.

[saneindian]

^ Youre right, selectorial judegemnt comes into it as well. That is why Vinay has not played test cricket. Mithun in Ranji cricket was supposed to be nippier I dont think that has quite translated on to the test arena yet. There is a balance to be sought right?? Can not ignore FC cricket altogether, may as well scrap the system then. Umesh has done ok at FC cricket so his selection is a good one. Selectors seem to go totally the other way at times- selecting Unadkat when he was no where near ready being case in point. Maybe youre right and Varun has bowled on unresponsive pitches a lot, he seems to have bowled ok in EPT. It would be good to see domestic performances being rewarded more often thats all. RP Singh coming back into tests despite doing fk-all was pretty ridiculous too, the guys who plough away in Ranjis must be wondering why they bother. Over the years Ranadeb, Gagandeep, Kulkarni, Pankaj have all made squads but njot played, yet Unadkat makes his test debut based on ..not much really, a handful of good performances. They deserve a shot at test cricket before being discarded and not heard of again.

One major issue with the selection of the pacers has been the way they have been fast tracked without any experience of playing for India A or such tours by visiting teams. Tyagi did well in one season (2008-09), got into team , was obviously not ready for international cricket, was taken for a few tours and then was thrown out of the team. Same with Mithun, did well in a season and was in team India, bowled his heart out in SL, was not picked for SA but has somehow remained in contention everytime a bowler gets injured. These youngsters need to be made aware of their exact role in the team. In a way lack of developnment for Tyagi and Mithun also shows us how the system in India doesnt help a pacer develop at all. But those two still have age on their side and can resurrect their international career by adding more skills (and in Tyagi's case better fitness and stamina).

[BeautifulGame]

^ Youre right, selectorial judegemnt comes into it as well. That is why Vinay has not played test cricket. Mithun in Ranji cricket was supposed to be nippier I dont think that has quite translated on to the test arena yet. There is a balance to be sought right?? Can not ignore FC cricket altogether, may as well scrap the system then. Umesh has done ok at FC cricket so his selection is a good one. Selectors seem to go totally the other way at times- selecting Unadkat when he was no where near ready being case in point. Maybe youre right and Varun has bowled on unresponsive pitches a lot, he seems to have bowled ok in EPT. It would be good to see domestic performances being rewarded more often thats all. RP Singh coming back into tests despite doing fk-all was pretty ridiculous too, the guys who plough away in Ranjis must be wondering why they bother. Over the years Ranadeb, Gagandeep, Kulkarni, Pankaj have all made squads but njot played, yet Unadkat makes his test debut based on ..not much really, a handful of good performances. They deserve a shot at test cricket before being discarded and not heard of again.

I am not saying Ranji performances shouldnt be counted but when we see a player with Unique potential they must be given first priority.Yes FC records must taken be given priority but when u see a unique talent they must be fast tracked as soon as possible. Its not about who deserves more its about what is more good for Indian cricket. Unadkat selection was a failure but that doesnt mean we should abandon taking gambles. When u see a bowler like Varon who bowls 145K consistently which is rare commodity in Indian cricket we shouldnt bother about FC records.If he becomes a success we have a huge asset on our hands for more than 10 years. So what if he fails how many times we have tried plenty of trundlers over the years and flopped horribly.There is nothing wrong in trying someone like Varon when we see the potential he has. If Ganguly clinged on to FC records we would never have had a Sehwag or Harbajan.

[saneindian]

I am not saying Ranji performances shouldnt be counted but when we see a player with Unique potential they must be given first priority.Yes FC records must taken be given priority but when u see a unique talent they must be fast tracked as soon as possible. Its not about who deserves more its about what is more good for Indian cricket. Unadkat selection was a failure but that doesnt mean we should abandon taking gambles. When u see a bowler like Varon who bowls 145K consistently which is rare commodity in Indian cricket we shouldnt bother about FC records.If he becomes a success we have a huge asset on our hands for more than 10 years. So what if he fails how many times we have tried plenty of trundlers over the years and flopped horribly.There is nothing wrong in trying someone like Varon when we see the potential he has. If Ganguly clinged on to FC records we would never have had a Sehwag or Harbajan.

If anything them doing well in domestic cricket had a huge role in Dada/selectors picking them. What Dada did was back them thoroughly to help them perform. Sehwag before making his India debut in SA had 2700+ runs@58 with 9 100s in 33 first class matches at a SR around 80! His 3 seasons prior to SA tour read 979 runs@58, 1008 runs@58 and 756 runs@58. Similarly Bhajji had taken 125 wickets (41, 46 and 38) in 3 seasons before being recalled for Aus series in 2001. The only other successful off spinner around that time was Kanwaljit Singh who was already 35+ and hence not being looked at as an India propsect.

[BeautifulGame]

If anything them doing well in domestic cricket had a huge role in Dada/selectors picking them. What Dada did was back them thoroughly to help them perform. Sehwag before making his India debut in SA had 2700+ runs@58 with 9 100s in 33 first class matches at a SR around 80! His 3 seasons prior to SA tour read 979 runs@58, 1008 runs@58 and 756 runs@58. Similarly Bhajji had taken 125 wickets (41, 46 and 38) in 3 seasons before being recalled for Aus series in 2001. The only other successful off spinner around that time was Kanwaljit Singh who was already 35+ and hence not being looked at as an India propsect.

Harbajan in an interview to Indian express :

Shekhar Gupta: So you were planning to go to Canada or America. Harbhajan Singh: At that time, my family was my top priority because I am the eldest. But suddenly I saw some hope when Sourav (Ganguly) spoke to me, called me to Delhi and John Wright, who was the coach then, saw me bowl. There was this camp of players and my name was in it. It was then that I realised that this could be my comeback. So, I went to the camp, performed well. And then they let me into the Board XI team that was touring Australia. They were short of a spinner because Anil bhai (Anil Kumble) was injured. I took three and two wickets in each of the innings. I bowled well, so my name came up for the first Test match.

Its not because he had stats its because Ganguly saw potential in him. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/chappell-was-a-disaster.-he-was-after-sachin.-he-wanted-sachin-to-retire/681255/0

[ganeshran]

Windies Test Squad announced (Gayle overlooked, Barath In) West Indies Squad also announced

St John's, Antigua: Adrian Barath on Tuesday returned to the West Indies squad for the upcoming three-Test series in India after recovering from a hamstring injury. The inclusion of Barath is the only change that the West Indian selectors have made to the squad which is currently playing a Test series against Bangladesh. The opener missed the ongoing two-Test series in Bangladesh after suffering the injury during the opening one-day international in Dhaka last month. Barath, who scored a century in his Test debut against Australia in 2009, has so far made 350 runs in seven matches. Opener Lendl Simmons, who replaced Barath for the Tests in Bangladesh, will return home after the ongoing second and final Test in Dhaka, according to a West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) press release. Simmons was in poor form in the West Indies' home Tests against Pakistan and India this year, but was recalled to the side after scoring a century and a half-century in the first and second ODIs in Bangladesh. But he failed in the Chittagong Test and as a result, young openers Kraigg Brathwaite and Kieran Powell, who struck half-centuries in the first innings of the ongoing Test in Mirpur, got the selectors' nod for the India series. The Darren Sammy-led squad for the India trip has two spinners in Shane Shillingford and Devendra Bishoo. besides three quicks. The side has two wicket-keepers in Carlton Baugh and Denesh Ramdin. There was still no place in the 15-man squad for explosive opener Chris Gayle following his differences with the WICB. He has not played for the West Indies since the World Cup earlier this year. The WICB last month asked Gayle to retract his bitter criticism of officials and coach Ottis Gibson in a radio interview if he wanted to resurrect his international career. The West Indies play the first Test in Delhi from November 6, followed by matches in Kolkata (November 14-18) and Mumbai (November 22-26).They will also play five one-day internationals after the Tests. The one-day squad will be named later, the WICB said. West Indies Test squad: Darren Sammy ©, Adrian Barath, Carlton Baugh, Devendra Bishoo, Kraigg Brathwaite, Darren Bravo, Shivnarine Chanderpaul, Fidel Edwards, Kirk Edwards, Keiran Powell, Denesh Ramdin, Ravi Rampaul, Kemar Roach, Marlon Samuels, Shane Shillingford.Coach: Ottis Gibson.

[Karan114]

Pretty much the same squad of players that our second string team beat in the WI