The Outsider Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 This might be a generalization and I might be completely wrong in perception - if you think I am fair enough. However, my general perception has been - reading comments on the internet (mainly on ICF, haven't read comments regularly on any other site) and interacting with the Indian diaspora in the US has been that we bother too much about what others say about us or anything Indian. Just a rejoinder, that I found Indians in India to be much more relaxed on this front than the 'NRIs'. The motivation to start this thread was a comment in another thread on the Noida F-1 track from some user on the lines that the British media was focussing on bats and dogs and we've got to show them. Apologies if that poster is offended and I am not focussing on just that, but the more general tendency to gain approval. What's wrong with the attitude of yeah we messed up a few things, let's learn and improve and not crave for appreciation of that improvement from others? Another example - Ravi Shastri comes out and say we would have blanked England 4-0 in 4 days per test match. Maybe he is doing it in response to some comments from the English media he found offensive, but regardless it's a stupid statement devoid of common sense. And given the success he has had as a cricket analyst and commentator there are quite a few who enjoy that kind of jingoism. Why go too far - ICF itself was full of similar jingoism when India won 5-0 a few days back? And it's not related to just cricket obviously - it pervades to every field you can think of. For example, comments about Rajaratnam and Gupta being 'targeted' in the insider trading case. Is it some way to boost our self esteem, to show our unity even in the face of crookery rather than adversity? Maybe it's not such a bad trait after all if it helps to pull people together? Or does it? Or is it? Or does it even happen?
punjabi_khota Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 India is at a unique juncture, not-quite-third-world but not there yet. Plus the diaspora is the strongest/largest and most-attached-to-motherland in the world. It is testimony of our strong culture. Chinese don't count, because those ****ers have no voice, and who the feck knows what they talk about. If you think Indians have a bamboo up their ass, what about the jews ? Talk shyte about Israel and see what happens.
The Outsider Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 True - it might be just the volume effect that I get shrouded with it from Indians. And I agree that China doesn't count. But even speaking from a percentage point of view - yeah the sample size is obviously small. I know a lot of people from East European countries, which might be a generalization in itself but moving beyond that, I have seldom if ever get riled up about some negative depiction of their home countries in Western media. I despise going to desi parties because of this phenomenon and some others like what is being discussed in another thread - 'so, have you decided where to settle? We really wanted to go back, but Chunnu and Munni just love Amreeka', the next favorite topic of discussion is how the entire world is conspiring against successful Indians right from making H-1 regulations more stringent to delays in processing of green cards to not teaching enough world history in American schools! I agree about Israel and the Jews - they can compare and possibly beat us on the a.nal scale with us in this regard.
Alchemist Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Why only Jews ? What about muslims ? Talk shyte about Palestine and see what happens.
yoda Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Well it applies to many such groups including Americans, not in the context of what others think, rather what they think of themselves, they simply can do no wrong. Take the case of Amanda Knox, the Seattle student who went to Italy for studies and got caught in a murder investigation, convicted first and finally was released on appeal. Pretty much everyone in the US believes she is innocent and was unfairly accused. In Italy the feeling is the opposite, they think she simply got away with Murder.
Lurker Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 lol..you have started to think like me Shwetabh..and that maybe not a great thing. this thread reminds me of something I wrote a few years back. But enough about being in love with myself. Here's a question for you. The possible discussions in such a party (GC process, Dollar exchange rate, F1 track etc etc) and the possible reasons (numbers, comparison with Israel/Palestine etc) sounds pretty political and econimic questions, no? How come Indians, by and large, dont discuss more on arts? Or love affairs? I mean I would have lovedddddddddddd to visit some of these parties, grab a glass of Mountain Dew (or lassi) and hear a woman talking about her past and men who left and impression on her.... When you take away the fingr points of life really how exciting would the discussions be? And wouldnt people wonder at that point what others think of them? Maybe.
The Outsider Posted October 28, 2011 Author Posted October 28, 2011 Why only Jews ? What about muslims ? Talk shyte about Palestine and see what happens. I can say for a fact that's incorrect. Indian Muslims do not have any special affinity to Palestine. You'll find pretty much the same percentage supporting the notion of a Palestine in non Muslim Indians and Muslim Indians, give or take a few. I support the two nation theory in the region and the notion that Palestinians should be given a separate country without infringing on the rights of sovereign Israel - the details might differ, but given the dichotomy in the society I feel it's not feasible to have a joint Israel-Palestine country in whatever form. Well it applies to many such groups including Americans, not in the context of what others think, rather what they think of themselves, they simply can do no wrong. Take the case of Amanda Knox, the Seattle student who went to Italy for studies and got caught in a murder investigation, convicted first and finally was released on appeal. Pretty much everyone in the US believes she is innocent and was unfairly accused. In Italy the feeling is the opposite, they think she simply got away with Murder. You are right that a section of the American population went overboard in the Amanda Knox case - my take was let the law of the land decide and Italy is not some backward country that we need to question their application of the law at every juncture. But, really, from my experience it was a small percentage exaggerated by the media. For example, I hardly had any talks lasting more than a few minutes with my American colleagues regarding Amanda Knox. However, Rajat Gupta seems to have become this anti hero in the Indian circle with the attitude of they are targeting him because he is Indian. lol..you have started to think like me Shwetabh..and that maybe not a great thing. this thread reminds me of something I wrote a few years back. But enough about being in love with myself. Here's a question for you. The possible discussions in such a party (GC process, Dollar exchange rate, F1 track etc etc) and the possible reasons (numbers, comparison with Israel/Palestine etc) sounds pretty political and econimic questions, no? How come Indians, by and large, dont discuss more on arts? Or love affairs? I mean I would have lovedddddddddddd to visit some of these parties, grab a glass of Mountain Dew (or lassi) and hear a woman talking about her past and men who left and impression on her.... Dream on! Yes there are some really nice Indan married women in these 'desi' parties, but from my observation they are always being droned upon by their husbands. How difficult is it to get the concept that I don't want to hit on your wife and am just having a friendly chat with her. After every few minutes their husbands will drone upon the conversation - "Honey, do you want some Iced tea or Wine?" When you take away the fingr points of life really how exciting would the discussions be? And wouldnt people wonder at that point what others think of them? Maybe. Maybe is my answer too - but at least not feel insecure of our identities. I mean, if you can't trust your wife to chat up with someone in the midst of 30 people what business do you have to call yourself a married couple. I am not making this up!
Alchemist Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 As for the point of OP, I agree with outsider. I have seen this a lot of times. We do care about what other people will say. From a different view, its not only us Indians against Others. Between our relatives and our social lives we put a lot of stress on what other people might be saying about us. A lot of times people will not do what they really want to do, just to look good in front of people who don't care about you.
Brainfade Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 I can say for a fact that's incorrect. Indian Muslims do not have any special affinity to Palestine. You'll find pretty much the same percentage supporting the notion of a Palestine in non Muslim Indians and Muslim Indians, give or take a few. I support the two nation theory in the region and the notion that Palestinians should be given a separate country without infringing on the rights of sovereign Israel - the details might differ, but given the dichotomy in the society I feel it's not feasible to have a joint Israel-Palestine country in whatever form. You are right that a section of the American population went overboard in the Amanda Knox case - my take was let the law of the land decide and Italy is not some backward country that we need to question their application of the law at every juncture. But, really, from my experience it was a small percentage exaggerated by the media. For example, I hardly had any talks lasting more than a few minutes with my American colleagues regarding Amanda Knox. However, Rajat Gupta seems to have become this anti hero in the Indian circle with the attitude of they are targeting him because he is Indian. Dream on! Yes there are some really nice Indan married women in these 'desi' parties, but from my observation they are always being droned upon by their husbands. How difficult is it to get the concept that I don't want to hit on your wife and am just having a friendly chat with her. After every few minutes their husbands will drone upon the conversation - "Honey, do you want some Iced tea or Wine?" Maybe is my answer too - but at least not feel insecure of our identities. I mean, if you can't trust your wife to chat up with someone in the midst of 30 people what business do you have to call yourself a married couple. Not to mention how the men and women separate as soon as you enter the place. The women congregate in the kitchen, and the men are around the liquor and peanuts. Heaven forbid one of the women walking over and grabbing a beer or chatting about football or cricket with the men.
Yoda-esque Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Not to mention how the men and women separate as soon as you enter the place. The women congregate in the kitchen' date=' and the men are around the liquor and peanuts. Heaven forbid one of the women walking over and grabbing a beer or chatting about football or cricket with the men.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
Manny_Pacquiao Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 because they are very insecure and not at ease with themselves.
vipin Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Just like every teenager is insecure India is at such a stage in its development that Indians do seem to feel the need for approval from others. A decade ago, it was like "OMG, India is being discussed here for some reason". Now, it is not so much about being discussed but about the good or the bad. Move down another decade or so, and I see things being a lot different. People shall stop giving a ***'.
Yoda-esque Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Typical talk: -------------- 1) Who do you report to? Oh,I know that guy..(Lots of name dropping ensues) 2) I just bought an Audi (Never mind the fact that he cannot differentiate Engine from Transmission and that he hasnt bothered to even check under the hood) 3) Latest talk on some SRK film which their daughter or son dances to (Demo promptly given on the latest BOSE system) and how great it is or how their son plans to pursue neuro-science 4) The usual GC talk on Priority dates (why didnt u do it in EB1? blah blah) 5) House talk (Oh he bought this house and some back handed compliments regarding the Vastu) 6) Mortgage costs and bank interest rates 7) Some NBA talk (Kobe Bryant) and some NFL talk on how Peyton is better than Tom Brady (invariably some guy will be wearing a NFL shirt) 8) Women all together in another room or basement or kitchen 9) Dont even get me started on the food !
vipin Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Hi Ganeshran. I am better now, thanks to all the wishes. How are you doing ?
ganeshran Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 The need for approval and insecurity are the two main reasons. Most people who respond with a disproportionate reaction towards criticism are usually so insecure that an opposing opinion causes them great distress. Not only is there an OTT reaction, there is also every attempt to justify it in their minds. Its not only limited to Indians though, but certainly seems magnified because of our huge numbers
ganeshran Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Hi Ganeshran. I am better now' date=' thanks to all the wishes. How are you doing ?[/quote'] Good to know dude. I am doing good too :two_thumbs_up:
Lurker Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 Dream on! Yes there are some really nice Indan married women in these 'desi' parties, but from my observation they are always being droned upon by their husbands. How difficult is it to get the concept that I don't want to hit on your wife and am just having a friendly chat with her. After every few minutes their husbands will drone upon the conversation - "Honey, do you want some Iced tea or Wine?" So maybe the issue here is the "collective" culturalism, if you will, that we grow up with? For the better part of our life we end up going to marriages, birthday parties, social functions as a family. And the general exchange at such functions are of a certain nature. It is not individualistic but more collective? The differentiator is typically when we end up in college, and comes completely at bare for those who live in hostels etc and start to break out of the shackle in some ways. And maybe the situation is worse for girls? So when the same set of people end up overseas they seek the comfort of similar folks, similar culture and not having to worry about? Maybe that explains the clique of Indians that you typically observe at work eating together? Or my pet peeve - families going together on vacation? Really?
Rajiv Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 It's a cultural thing, along the same lines as I have to be better than you
Brainfade Posted October 28, 2011 Posted October 28, 2011 So maybe the issue here is the "collective" culturalism, if you will, that we grow up with? For the better part of our life we end up going to marriages, birthday parties, social functions as a family. And the general exchange at such functions are of a certain nature. It is not individualistic but more collective? The differentiator is typically when we end up in college, and comes completely at bare for those who live in hostels etc and start to break out of the shackle in some ways. And maybe the situation is worse for girls? So when the same set of people end up overseas they seek the comfort of similar folks, similar culture and not having to worry about? Maybe that explains the clique of Indians that you typically observe at work eating together? Or my pet peeve - families going together on vacation? Really? Absolutely detest this under all circumstances. But it is especially bad when everyone has to stay for a week in some rented vacation home, and on top of that, someone wants to cook rice & daal and puliyaara every meal. Ugh!!
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