Dhoni and contemporary wicketkeepers

[The Outsider]

dont look at the averages, look at the way he bats. the guy wouldnt last against a good bowling attack overseas. just isnt cut out to be a successful test player. in this day and age, he can average close to 40, but that's as good as he will ever get. its a joke to even compare him to guys like dravid and sehwag, those guys have made big runs outside the subcontinent.

You're wasting your breath, not that I am guilty of it myself. There is no logical justification for the kind of following Dhoni has, except a solace in secluded supremacy - have you seen IPL and CL being brought around to defend the guys' credentials. When you see that kind of a thing, you know it's a lost cause. He is a superb ODI cricketer, even a serious contender for an all time ODI XI, but the gulf between tests and ODIs is huge and Dhoni just doesn't have it in him to be more than a decent test cricketer.

[daryl1985]

You're wasting your breath, not that I am guilty of it myself. There is no logical justification for the kind of following Dhoni has, except a solace in secluded supremacy - have you seen IPL and CL being brought around to defend the guys' credentials. When you see that kind of a thing, you know it's a lost cause. He is a superb ODI cricketer, even a serious contender for an all time ODI XI, but the gulf between tests and ODIs is huge and Dhoni just doesn't have it in him to be more than a decent test cricketer.

There is no-one better than him to play as wicket keeper at the moment. When there is, then maybe there could be a case for him being dropped.

[ganeshran]

You're wasting your breath, not that I am guilty of it myself. There is no logical justification for the kind of following Dhoni has, except a solace in secluded supremacy - have you seen IPL and CL being brought around to defend the guys' credentials. When you see that kind of a thing, you know it's a lost cause. He is a superb ODI cricketer, even a serious contender for an all time ODI XI, but the gulf between tests and ODIs is huge and Dhoni just doesn't have it in him to be more than a decent test cricketer.

Outy, who would you replace Dhoni with? He is not a exceptional test player but he is a decent keeper and an good batsman in Subcontinent conditions/an average one overseas. Plus he also captains the side. Replacing all three is very difficult. You need to start having two different captains for ODI/Tests and also there is no outright indication that Saha will certainly do better than Dhoni overseas given his FC record.

[BeautifulGame]

dont look at the averages, look at the way he bats. the guy wouldnt last against a good bowling attack overseas. just isnt cut out to be a successful test player. in this day and age, he can average close to 40, but that's as good as he will ever get. its a joke to even compare him to guys like dravid and sehwag, those guys have made big runs outside the subcontinent.

The bigger joke is tagging Sehwag alongside Dravid and mentioning Sehwag as a model for batting in away conditions. Which exact swinging conditions sehwag has thrived ? He has absmyl record in SA England and New zeal land only places where the ball swings and the exact places Dhoni struggles.

[BeautifulGame]

I agree' date=' but Gilchrist was a superb keeper as well. Dhoni is average. Gilchrist could have made the Australian team as a specialist keeper or a specialist batsman. Dhoni can do neither - there are better keepers and better batsmen in the Indian cricketing setup.[/quote'] But at the end of the day there arent any wicket keeper batsmen that are better than Dhoni in Indian set up. Thats what that matters. He has done way better than any Indian wicket keeper batsmen has done in recent memory and there arent many wicket Keeper batsmen in History that have performed better than Dhoni home or away. Yes he is a flat track Bully and struggles away from home but thats what even the best wicket keeper batsmen has done.

[BeautifulGame]

You're wasting your breath, not that I am guilty of it myself. There is no logical justification for the kind of following Dhoni has, except a solace in secluded supremacy - have you seen IPL and CL being brought around to defend the guys' credentials. When you see that kind of a thing, you know it's a lost cause. He is a superb ODI cricketer, even a serious contender for an all time ODI XI, but the gulf between tests and ODIs is huge and Dhoni just doesn't have it in him to be more than a decent test cricketer.

He is more than a decent wicket keeper batsman.He is very good and the best wicket keeper batsman India has produced in a long long time even in test cricket. U keep on referring Dhoni is a Home town bully and how many wicket keeper batsmen we have produced in our history who can atleast score in home conditions consistently? Dhoni averages more than 50 in Indian conditions in last 4 years.How many teams have/had keepers average over 50 in home conditions (where 50% tests are played) in their history? Atleast be happy that we have a keeper who is great in home conditions and scrap few useful knocks away from home.There werent that many keepers played who are capable of similar abilities in cricket history let alone just in India. There is no point expecting Gilcrist from Dhoni which no other cricketer can match not just Dhoni.

[The Outsider]

There is no-one better than him to play as wicket keeper at the moment. When there is' date=' then maybe there could be a case for him being dropped.[/quote'] No one. Just because I am criticizing some particular aspects of an over glorified cricketer does not mean I want him replaced him with someone. He is a good addition to the test team - the emphasis on "good". Nothing like the extravagant praises that are lavished upon him. From what I've seen Saha would be able to do a better job keeping and a worse job batting (only slightly worse in tricky conditions). So, just to reiterate I am not asking for Dhoni to be dropped - I feel he is doing a very good job, just that I don't see the need to be infatuated by him as a lot of our country is.

[Serani]

Brilliant useless ton from Dhoni in this game, if only he could do this when India actually need him, when the going gets tough, dhoni gets out.

[The Outsider]

But at the end of the day there arent any wicket keeper batsmen that are better than Dhoni in Indian set up. Thats what that matters. He has done way better than any Indian wicket keeper batsmen has done in recent memory and there arent many wicket Keeper batsmen in History that have performed better than Dhoni home or away. Yes he is a flat track Bully and struggles away from home but thats what even the best wicket keeper batsmen has done.

What is this obsession with keeper-batsmen? Let me try to explain this : 1. A test team always needs a superb keeper if they can find one, because a missed chance in a test match can be catastrophic. 2. It's just my personal preference, but I would take a superb keeper who is an average batsman (someone like Kirmani) rather than someone who is an average keeper and an above average batsman (someone like Dhoni). The reason for number 2 is that whereas a keeper, no matter how good a batsman he is will seldom get a chance to redress his keeping mistakes with the bat, a superb keeper can make up for his failings with the bat by taking some astounding dismissals of top order batsmen.

[daryl1985]

Brilliant useless ton from Dhoni in this game' date=' if only he could do this when India actually need him, when the going gets tough, dhoni gets out.[/quote'] What like in the World Cup Final? He may not be a great test batsman but he is a winner, an amazing limited overs player and a very good captain.

[veer]

hahhaa... some people just wish they had a guy like Dhoni in their team.

[BeautifulGame]

Brilliant useless ton from Dhoni in this game' date=' if only he could do this when India actually need him, when the going gets tough, dhoni gets out.[/quote'] Like when Prior played all those amazing knocks in India and South Africa when England needed him? And i wont even go into how awful a player Prior is in ODI cricket.Maybe England should have bought in a better keeper from South Africa instead of this useless Prior.

[BeautifulGame]

What is this obsession with keeper-batsmen? Let me try to explain this : 1. A test team always needs a superb keeper if they can find one, because a missed chance in a test match can be catastrophic. 2. It's just my personal preference, but I would take a superb keeper who is an average batsman (someone like Kirmani) rather than someone who is an average keeper and an above average batsman (someone like Dhoni). The reason for number 2 is that whereas a keeper, no matter how good a batsman he is will seldom get a chance to redress his keeping mistakes with the bat, a superb keeper can make up for his failings with the bat by taking some astounding dismissals of top order batsmen.

Dhoni is no means world class but certainly better than a average keeper. Yes he had a poor series in England but he had very good tours of Australia and South Africa.He pretty safe in Indian conditions too.And he is certainly the best keeper for Spinners in International cricket at moment.

[The Outsider]

Dhoni is no means world class but certainly better than a average keeper.

On keeping skills, Dhoni would rank around 4th in a sample of 8 test playing nations - so yeah, it makes him an average keeper.

Yes he had a poor series in England but he had very good tours of Australia and South Africa.He pretty safe in Indian conditions too.And he is certainly the best keeper for Spinners in International cricket at moment.

He is good keeping to spinners, but the number of times a bumped ball has gone into his glove or a catch has flown through him and first slip against fast bowlers makes me cringe.

[ganeshran]

Our problems with Dhoni's batting look amplified because of the absence of a proper number 6 batsmen (not trying to excuse his batting in any way). Unfortunately, when the big 3 retire and gaping holes appear in the middle order, the pressure on Sehwag and Dhoni would increase manifold. Their failures (or in Sehwag's case rapid 40s and 50s ) would begin to get noticed much more.

[VRV Singh]

I think Dhoni's value in playing these 'rub salt in the wounds' kind of innings is fair. It is definitely important to the Indian home blueprint of piling on the first innings runs inside two days and wearing the opponents down. He scores quickly and it is clearly draining for the opposition. You can probably give him more credit for this. Not to deny is limitations which are obvious.

[gaurav92]

Someone mentioned about the WC Final :facepalm: We are talking about Tests and not ODIs jhere :wall:

[carnish]

Dhoni is a very safe keeper... not an extraordinary one like gilly or boucher but pretty safe and as a batter i think he is pretty much better than anyone else in India. I guess only keepers in tests with better batting talent than him are prior and haddin right now and everyone else including taibu, boucher, baugh, k.akmal, jayawardene are crap as batsmen.... surely india donot want to replace his talent with someone like saha(joke)

[vamos_rafa]

Dhoni is a very safe keeper... not an extraordinary one like gilly or boucher but pretty safe and as a batter i think he is pretty much better than anyone else in India. I guess only keepers in tests with better batting talent than him are prior and haddin right now and everyone else including taibu, boucher, baugh, k.akmal, jayawardene are crap as batsmen.... surely india donot want to replace his talent with someone like saha(joke)

Gilchrist was no wy close to Boucher in terms of keeping skills.

[Precambrian]

Dhoni has an akward foot movement and a dominant bottomhand - both of which make it very difficult for him to be an accomplished test batsmen in the longer run. However all his replacement keepers are poorer test caliber batsmen. He can play handy knocks coming at the end of an innings which isnt very big a worry if our number 3,4 and 5 batsmen provide a decent foundation. The good thing about Dhoni is that he looks much more comfortable after spending some time at the crease, just like he did today.

I'd take any day an avg of 39 from my wicketkeeper batsman, after 60+ tests.