Elephant in the room

[zen]

Wrong!. There is a reason no player has been able to sustain such a high average for so long. There is a reason Ponting came down to 52 average from 60. Same with Dravid. People speak of playing tons of games as if its not a big thing. The reason no one has able to play tons of games is because no one has been good enough' date= only Sachin has. As for an average of 70+, not possible in this era. If Ponting had stopped playing at his peak, he would have averaged 60. But thats not possible. Playing fewer games in your peak will always give you higher average than playing lots of game as the law of averages get more chance of catching up to you

Let's not be dillusional .... He has more games (tests+ODIs) because he has been playing since 1989 .... There is no reason to believe that likes of Lara, wouldn't have got as many runs as Tendulkar if he had played that many games. Let's not forget that Lara has been ahead of Tendulkar when you talk abt reaching say 10k test runs, etc Let's not also forget, Tendulkar avg went down in 2004-2007 period as well .... And yes, for top regular batsmen it will be difficult to get close to an avg of 70 but for the best of AT, it is possible. And since Sachin is not the best of all time, he (and his fanatics) focus on stuff like reaching 15k runs, 100 100s, etc, all of these can be accumulated by playing more games than others. I have no doubt that if likes of Gavaskar, Richards, etc would have played 180 tests, there records would have been as good as if not better than Tendulkar's :winky:

[Pagalpanti]

here is no reason to believe that likes of Lara, wouldn't have got as many runs as Tendulkar if he had played that many games. Let's not forget that Lara has been ahead of Tendulkar when you talk abt reaching say 10k test runs, etc

If thats the case why didn't they play? Why they gave up? Surely WI would've done anything to still have Lara in their team.

[ganeshran]

Coulda woulda shoulda statements cant be argued with.

[asterix]

Coulda woulda shoulda statements cant be argued with.

I was thinking the same thing.. Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda..What's the point? You won't get more fit player than Sachin, at his age...Try playing for so long using the heavy bat he uses..

[daryl1985]

Thought his strike rate was much slower when he got to this 200. Must have been the nerves that made it seem that way. Me has been pwned! :embaressed_smile:

[CSK Fan]

Let's not be dillusional .... He has more games (tests+ODIs) because he has been playing since 1989 .... There is no reason to believe that likes of Lara, wouldn't have got as many runs as Tendulkar if he had played that many games. Let's not forget that Lara has been ahead of Tendulkar when you talk abt reaching say 10k test runs, etc Let's not also forget, Tendulkar avg went down in 2004-2007 period as well .... And yes, for top regular batsmen it will be difficult to get close to an avg of 70 but for the best of AT, it is possible. And since Sachin is not the best of all time, he (and his fanatics) focus on stuff like reaching 15k runs, 100 100s, etc, all of these can be accumulated by playing more games than others. I have no doubt that if likes of Gavaskar, Richards, etc would have played 180 tests, there records would have been as good as if not better than Tendulkar's :winky:

He has been playing since 1989 since he was good enough. None of the other batsmen were good enough. There is genuine reason to beleive that Lara couldnt have been a Tendulkar. 1) his form had gone from bad to worse. 2) He was not mentaly strong enough to fight back and believe and thats why he quit. Today his country needs him more than ever, but where is he? I dont care who was ahead at one point, its he who preserveres and is consitant who is better There are many players who had an average of over 60 after playing many matches. But with the number of matches being played today, the law of averages will catch up to you. This would be the same case with any ATG whom you have in mind. If they had played enough matches, their average would have come down too. Plus the different pitches, different teams, different kinds of bowlers, none of your ATGs had to go through any of that

[saneindian]

It's not Sachin's fault that at the same age when he was he was making his international debut, Lara wasn't even good enough to play u-19 cricket for WI! And when he did make his u-19 debut for them, proved to be a failure there. :P

[Andrew Peter]

A few years ago the argument was being made that if Ponting goes on to play as many tests as Sachin has then Ponting would easily break all his records for most centuries and runs but the results are here for all of us to see . If Sachin quits tomorrow and Ponting currently standing at 155 Tests goes on to play 27 Tests more equaling Number of Matches that Tendulkar has played then there is a big chance of his overall average falling well below 50 . Had Ponting quit during 2007 when he was on top of his game with an average around 58 then all Sachin bashers would have said " Look at the selfless act by Ponting to retire with an average of 58 when he could have so easily gone on to break all records owned by Tendulkar with the form he was in " But what happened ? Was Ponting able to maintain his standards over a period of time like Tendulkar ? Now this argument is being made for Lara & Viv about whom I am pretty sure that had they continued to play for a couple of years more , it would have been more disastrous for them instead of cementing there legacy further . Viv for example was averaging only 30 in the Odis he played during the last 3 years of his career .

[Yoda-esque]

Argument kahaan se kahaan gaya hai!

[zen]

He has been playing since 1989 since he was good enough. None of the other batsmen were good enough. There is genuine reason to beleive that Lara couldnt have been a Tendulkar. 1) his form had gone from bad to worse. 2) He was not mentaly strong enough to fight back and believe and thats why he quit. Today his country needs him more than ever, but where is he? I dont care who was ahead at one point, its he who preserveres and is consitant who is better There are many players who had an average of over 60 after playing many matches. But with the number of matches being played today, the law of averages will catch up to you. This would be the same case with any ATG whom you have in mind. If they had played enough matches, their average would have come down too. Plus the different pitches, different teams, different kinds of bowlers, none of your ATGs had to go through any of that

I cannot agree with you: 1. Lara retired at the right time, I think Tendulkar could have hanged his boots after 2011 WC. He is probably carrying on like how Kapil did. Starting late or retiring early (comparitively) is not related to cricketing skills that's being discussed here. Someone could start his international test career at 30 and retire at 38, play 80 tests and score 8000 runs and could be better than someone like Tendulkar with 180 odd tests for 15k runs :winky: 2. I haven't see any scientific studies that measures a players mental toughness. I have seen Lara play some unbelibavle knocks though like taking WI to win against Aus almost single handledly, on the other hand I have seen Tendulkar fail to take India across (the test vs Pak for example). 3. All things considered, I repeat, for e.g. if Gavaskar (who is India best test batsman) had played as many games as Tendulkar, he would have had as good if not better test record. And he opens in tests When I make a point, usually, it considers many things that you need to. What comes out is an assessment.

[Jersey #10]

:cantstop:

I cannot agree with you: 1. Lara retired at the right time, I think Tendulkar could have hanged his boots after 2011 WC. He is probably carrying on like how Kapil did. Starting late or retiring early (comparitively) is not related to cricketing skills that's being discussed here. Someone could start his international test career at 30 and retire at 38, play 80 tests and score 8000 runs and could be better than someone like Tendulkar with 180 odd tests for 15k runs :winky: 2. I haven't see any scientific studies that measures a players mental toughness. I have seen Lara play some unbelibavle knocks though like taking WI to win against Aus almost single handledly, on the other hand I have seen Tendulkar fail to take India across (the test vs Pak for example). 3. All things considered, I repeat, for e.g. if Gavaskar (who is India best test batsman) had played as many games as Tendulkar, he would have had as good if not better test record. And he opens in tests When I make a point, usually, it considers many things that you need to. What comes out is an assessment.

what bull sh!t! :hysterical::hysterical::haha: If I was born a day late, I would have had two wings and could have been the first ever flying man!

[akshayxyz]

A few years ago the argument was being made that if Ponting goes on to play as many tests as Sachin has then Ponting would easily break all his records for most centuries and runs but the results are here for all of us to see . If Sachin quits tomorrow and Ponting currently standing at 155 Tests goes on to play 27 Tests more equaling Number of Matches that Tendulkar has played then there is a big chance of his overall average falling well below 50 . Had Ponting quit during 2007 when he was on top of his game with an average around 58 then all Sachin bashers would have said " Look at the selfless act by Ponting to retire with an average of 58 when he could have so easily gone on to break all records owned by Tendulkar with the form he was in " But what happened ? Was Ponting able to maintain his standards over a period of time like Tendulkar ? Now this argument is being made for Lara & Viv about whom I am pretty sure that had they continued to play for a couple of years more , it would have been more disastrous for them instead of cementing there legacy further . Viv for example was averaging only 30 in the Odis he played during the last 3 years of his career .

I cannot agree with you: 1. Lara retired at the right time, I think Tendulkar could have hanged his boots after 2011 WC. He is probably carrying on like how Kapil did. Starting late or retiring early (comparitively) is not related to cricketing skills that's being discussed here. Someone could start his international test career at 30 and retire at 38, play 80 tests and score 8000 runs and could be better than someone like Tendulkar with 180 odd tests for 15k runs :winky: 2. I haven't see any scientific studies that measures a players mental toughness. I have seen Lara play some unbelibavle knocks though like taking WI to win against Aus almost single handledly, on the other hand I have seen Tendulkar fail to take India across (the test vs Pak for example). 3. All things considered, I repeat, for e.g. if Gavaskar (who is India best test batsman) had played as many games as Tendulkar, he would have had as good if not better test record. And he opens in tests When I make a point, usually, it considers many things that you need to. What comes out is an assessment.

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Do you even read what others say? Look at what Andrew said just couple of posts above. Same old ghisi piti arguments.

[yoda]

I don't think SRT or any of his teammates give a damn about the record to let it affect their performance while they are playing, that doesn't mean they are not aware of it or will not cherish it once achieved.

[Jersey #10]

I cannot agree with you: 1. Lara retired at the right time, I think Tendulkar could have hanged his boots after 2011 WC. He is probably carrying on like how Kapil did. Starting late or retiring early (comparitively) is not related to cricketing skills that's being discussed here. Someone could start his international test career at 30 and retire at 38, play 80 tests and score 8000 runs and could be better than someone like Tendulkar with 180 odd tests for 15k runs :winky: 2. I haven't see any scientific studies that measures a players mental toughness. I have seen Lara play some unbelibavle knocks though like taking WI to win against Aus almost single handledly, on the other hand I have seen Tendulkar fail to take India across (the test vs Pak for example). 3. All things considered, I repeat, for e.g. if Gavaskar (who is India best test batsman) had played as many games as Tendulkar, he would have had as good if not better test record. And he opens in tests When I make a point, usually, it considers many things that you need to. What comes out is an assessment.

1. I have never seen a scientific study showing when one should retire or otherwise 2. I have seen Lara fail many times. The test vs australia - bridgetown '95, vs India - Mumbai '94, vs Australia - Sydney, vs Pakistan - Rawalpindi '97. just to name a few of his epic :fail:. He failed when his team needed him the most. 3. if Gavaskar had played as many games as Tendulkar, he would have averaged 27.

[zen]

Runs per tests is one of the measures that gives us a good account of different type of conditions, team strength, etc one has to encounter For example, if you are playing at Durban, a team may need to bat twice as it is difficult to get huge scores, whereas on a flat pitch a team could play a different game like getting a huge score to put the opposition under pressure as the pitch would allow for that type of game Runs per tests, also takes not outs out of equaltion to reflect whats happening in a game. You may have scored 200 not out after your team was 20/2 or scored 20 not out because you came in at 450/5. Sometimes the pitch is so good that most folks would score. Here you got out of 10 but your team made 600. and you never got a chance to bat again. Whose fault it is on missing out. Runs per tests, from the top of my head: Lara - 12k from 131 tests ----> 92 Ten - 15k from 182 tests ----> 82 Lara after 182 tests ----> 92*182 = 16,744 runs > Ten 15k runs Current difference: 3k runs from 51 tests @ 59 runs per test only .... Getting 60 runs per tests shouldn't be that hard for any great batsman :icflove:

[zen]

1. I have never seen a scientific study showing when one should retire or otherwise 2. I have seen Lara fail many times. The test vs australia - bridgetown '95, vs India - Mumbai '94, vs Australia - Sydney, vs Pakistan - Rawalpindi '97. just to name a few of his epic :fail:. He failed when his team needed him the most. 3. if Gavaskar had played as many games as Tendulkar, he would have averaged 27.

^ Another piece of crap from another fanatic :P Oh boy 27! I thought a fanatic would have him at much less .... thanks for being gracious to Gavaskar :hysterical:

[Jersey #10]

^ Another piece of crap from another fanatic :P Oh boy 27! I thought a fanatic would have him at much less .... thanks for being gracious to Gavaskar :hysterical:

What's so funny? I am making as fair of an assesment as you have been in this thread.

[zen]

What's so funny? I am making as fair of an assesment as you have been in this thread.

Sure, you can keep trying! .... But this reminds me of the story of Khatra jaan hakim's story :giggle:

[zen]

runs per inning Lara: 12k from 232 innings ----> 52 Ten: 15k from 300 innings ----> 50

[akshayxyz]

runs per inning Lara: 12k from 232 innings ----> 52 Ten: 15k from 300 innings ----> 50

Why don't you divide it with length of names and multiply with age in years. It will take into account the numerology-wise disadvantage Lara had to play with.