Elephant in the room

[Karan114]

looking at some of the indian players it appears there is more than one elephant in the room.

:hysterical:

[Sachinism]

Good to see a lot of fanatics being hurt by the truth :hysterical: Sachin ,,,, Saachin :giggle:

Hurt? Actually falling on the floor from laughing wasn't that painful. I guess I was laughing too hard to notice any pain.

[zen]

Hurt? Actually falling on the floor from laughing wasn't that painful. I guess I was laughing too hard to notice any pain.

That's quite a bit of multi tasking: falling on the floor, laughing and typing :P

[expoking]

Yes, i do think it's playing on hiis mind. My prediction is that the next time Sachin gets into the 90's he will scratch around nervously then be dismissed.

[maniac]

Isn't Lara's retirement selfish too given the fact that he could have hung around a little longer despite having a decline towards the end, till he stabilised the WI squad a little bit given the amount of influence he enjoyed in the WI. There are 2 ways to look at everything, People saying that SRT should have retired after the WC are nothing but blind haters...Looking at our squad 10 months from now I am glad that neither SRT,RD or VVS have announced their retirements in a hurry as I am sure they are responsible enough to know when the right time will come. Please appreciate that we have some of the most dedicated cricketers in the world.

[CoverDrive]

It is time we had a Sachin vs. Lara debate

[CSK Fan]

Rett, how did Lara retire at the right time? His team would all give their right hand to have a batsman averaging even 40 now

[CSK Fan]

It's what you do in the games you play that counts .... Like I said before, if you missed it, someone could start his international career at the age of 30, retire at 38, play 80 tests, score 8k runs and still be considered better than Tendulkar I don't think anyone would make the points that some of the fanatics are making outside of an Indian dominated area .... If they do, they would be laughed out of the room :winky:

Is they why any cricket expert, any ex or current player always put Sachin before Lara? India fanatic or anti-Sachin fanatic? Lets talk about games which matter. What Sachin did was help his team win a wolrd cup and in tests helped his team reach no 1 which Lara never could. We are talking about team results arent we, beat that and I dont know how a player scoring 8k over 80 matches is better than someone playing 180 matches for 15k runs. the later contributed 7k more runs for his country. Is a player scoring 4k over 40 matches better than the one scoring 8k? What about a player scoring 2k runs after playing only 1 year? Is he the greatest batsman ever using ur logic?

[Sachinism]

Rett' date=' how did Lara retire at the right time? His team would all give their right hand to have a batsman averaging even 40 now[/quote'] He means he retired at the right time for himself, considering how selfless everyone apart from Sachin is, I find this news down right shocking

[akshayxyz]

Is they why any cricket expert, any ex or current player always put Sachin before Lara? India fanatic or anti-Sachin fanatic? Lets talk about games which matter. What Sachin did was help his team win a wolrd cup and in tests helped his team reach no 1 which Lara never could. We are talking about team results arent we, beat that and I dont know how a player scoring 8k over 80 matches is better than someone playing 180 matches for 15k runs. the later contributed 7k more runs for his country. Is a player scoring 4k over 40 matches better than the one scoring 8k? What about a player scoring 2k runs after playing only 1 year? Is he the greatest batsman ever using ur logic?

It was Dhoni you fool. Sachin wasted 4 chances before younger blood nullified his panauti effect.

[zen]

Rett' date=' how did Lara retire at the right time? His team would all give their right hand to have a batsman averaging even 40 now[/quote'] I agree in a way that even a 50% Lara would be useful for most teams but that doesn't mean he has to keep playing. When Lara retired WI had Cpaul and Sarwan, who were expected to carry the torch and WI needed to find new talent. It is nice to make way for youngsters and go when you feel that the time is right. Continuing on even though it could help your team a little for short term gains could at time provide diminishing returns. Some players are irreplaceable and we all know Lara is one of those but like all aspects of life, you have to move on For Sachin, I said he could (not should) have hanged his boots after the WC 2011. For me as a fan, all Sachin was missing is a world cup title and once he got that, IMO, his resume is complete. I dont care about meaningless records like 100 100s and his pursuit for that appears more like kapil's quest for that world record. I think it is time for Ind to develop its youngsters, of the 3 slots occupied by ten, dravid and lax, one needed to open sooner. Series like the one against WI are ideal for that. I don't really expect many Indian fans to understand the beauty of retiring when ppl ask why and not when. We are an emotional bunch and see playing cricket as if its like representing Ind in war. Usually, we have to retire our players ....

[akshayxyz]

I agree in a way that even a 50% Lara would be useful for most teams but that doesn't mean he has to keep playing. When Lara retired WI had Cpaul and Sarwan, who were expected to carry the torch and WI needed to find new talent. It is nice to make way for youngsters and go when you feel that the time is right. Continuing on even though it could help your team a little for short term gains could at time provide diminishing returns. Some players are irreplaceable and we all know Lara is one of those but like all aspects of life, you have to move on For Sachin, I said he could (not should) have hanged his boots after the WC 2011. For me as a fan, all Sachin was missing is a world cup title and once he got that, IMO, his resume is complete. I dont care about meaningless records like 100 100s and his pursuit for that appears more like kapil's quest for that world record. I think it is time for Ind to develop its youngsters, of the 3 slots occupied by ten, dravid and lax, one needed to open sooner. Series like the one against WI are ideal for that. I don't really expect many Indian fans to understand the beauty of retiring when ppl ask why and not when. We are an emotional bunch and see playing cricket as if its like representing Ind in war. Usually, we have to retire our players ....

I don't believe in this theory of making way for youngsters. They should work hard to earn their spot. As for meaninglessness of SRT's pursuit for records. I would suggest bookmark this post of yours - and read it again when he actually retires - you will have some numbers to look at, how much of time he went about wasting.

[zen]

To add further to what I wrote, if Sachin had been in Lara shoes and playing for WI, he would not have retired (not for the team) but he would tried to go past Gavaskar 34 100s and reach 12k runs This is what I appreciate about Lara, he was just a few runs shy of 12k mark but didn't care about mere numbers and hung his boots. Indians are not good in sports in general. Cricket provides a break from that rule, which is one of the reasons why it is popular. On top of that we had a bad team in the 90s, along with match fixing. For most Indians at that time the joy was in Tendular's 100s and his records. Over the years, Sachin's records turned into a national passion. I am afraid that this obsession with records will promote a culture where players are playing for records. Say last ball, Ind needs 6, the batsman is on 98, he plays a safe shot to the boundary which gets cuts off, he takes 2 quick runs, Ind loses, but the batsman raises his bat in celebration for completing his 100. To me, this is where Ind cricket could be heading :(( What difference it makes if someone has 100 scores of 99 vs 100 scores of say 100. This obsession needs to stop

[Sachinism]

To add further to what I wrote, if Sachin had been in Lara shoes and playing for WI, he would not have retired (not for the team) but he would tried to go past Gavaskar 34 100s and reach 12k runs This is what I appreciate about Lara, he was just a few runs shy of 12k mark but didn't care about mere numbers and hung his boots. Indians are not good in sports in general. Cricket provides a break from that rule, which is one of the reasons why it is popular. On top of that we had a bad team in the 90s, along with match fixing. For most Indians at that time the joy was in Tendular's 100s and his records. Over the years, Sachin's records turned into a national passion. I am afraid that this obsession with records will promote a culture where players are playing for records. Say last ball, Ind needs 6, the batsman is on 98, he plays a safe shot to the boundary which gets cuts off, he takes 2 quick runs, Ind loses, but the batsman raises his bat in celebration for completing his 100. To me, this is where Ind cricket could be heading :(( What difference it makes if someone has 100 scores of 99 vs 100 scores of say 100. This obsession needs to stop

The obsession with records is ingrained in the culture already. Its everyone, everywhere constantly talking up the records. Then you have the BCCI's speakerphone who has an orgasm over everything Tendulkar does while he's on commentary. I don't see Tendulkar as a records obsessed person, even though I feel its not the worse thing in the world. Every commentator/journo seems to be able to read Tendulkar's mind, they put that across as fact and slowly, slowly people start picking up on that crap. I remember just 2 years ago a match against SL, Tendulkar was closing in on a 100, KKD at the other end started defending and looked clueless, Sachin walked up to him, had a few words, which I'm pretty sure were along the lines of "play your natural game, just bat normal", because the next ball was sent for 6. Its not an Indian thing either, SL went as far as bowling a no-ball to deny Sehwag a ton, even after the match was lost.

[achilles]

Boss_Bhai.... this thread is missing your posts :P

[CSK Fan]

To add further to what I wrote, if Sachin had been in Lara shoes and playing for WI, he would not have retired (not for the team) but he would tried to go past Gavaskar 34 100s and reach 12k runs This is what I appreciate about Lara, he was just a few runs shy of 12k mark but didn't care about mere numbers and hung his boots. Indians are not good in sports in general. Cricket provides a break from that rule, which is one of the reasons why it is popular. On top of that we had a bad team in the 90s, along with match fixing. For most Indians at that time the joy was in Tendular's 100s and his records. Over the years, Sachin's records turned into a national passion. I am afraid that this obsession with records will promote a culture where players are playing for records. Say last ball, Ind needs 6, the batsman is on 98, he plays a safe shot to the boundary which gets cuts off, he takes 2 quick runs, Ind loses, but the batsman raises his bat in celebration for completing his 100. To me, this is where Ind cricket could be heading :(( What difference it makes if someone has 100 scores of 99 vs 100 scores of say 100. This obsession needs to stop

Its not Sachin's fault that people are obsessed with his numbers. After all you and all Aussies are obsessed with Bradman's 99+ average and quote it everywhere. What difference does an average of 99 or average of 50 make as long as the team is winning. Again, you are putting others intentions to Sachin, Sachin has never said he likes records, they come as he plays. On what basis do you say that Sachin is playing on only for numbers? He could then have easily retired from ODIs er the WC, aftas he has accomplished all there. He is playing on only for the team. He was also one of the reasons India won the world cup and became no 1 in tests so he has proved right by staying on, the team has gained immensely because of him

[akshayxyz]

The obsession with records is ingrained in the culture already. Its everyone, everywhere constantly talking up the records. Then you have the BCCI's speakerphone who has an orgasm over everything Tendulkar does while he's on commentary. I don't see Tendulkar as a records obsessed person, even though I feel its not the worse thing in the world. Every commentator/journo seems to be able to read Tendulkar's mind, they put that across as fact and slowly, slowly people start picking up on that crap. I remember just 2 years ago a match against SL, Tendulkar was closing in on a 100, KKD at the other end started defending and looked clueless, Sachin walked up to him, had a few words, which I'm pretty sure were along the lines of "play your natural game, just bat normal", because the next ball was sent for 6. Its not an Indian thing either, SL went as far as bowling a no-ball to deny Sehwag a ton, even after the match was lost.

++ Good reference. People seems to see and memorize only what they want to see. Besides, there are biological limits on how much and how old people can remember. SRT definitely does have his goals - you can't be that successful w/o setting targets.., but to say that he is obsessed with milestones is totally wrong. Also, one simple fact - one can not play for so long w/o undiluted passion, which is the only thing which keeps him going at this age. It is not easy, to get up every morning and go through the grill - after having done so for 30+ years.

[akshayxyz]

Also, had he been taking it easy in the nets, practice, workouts etc. I would have been the leader of gang calling for his head - but that is from from the reality. He still puts in more effort than any youngster you might be fantasizing about - and follows it up with performance.

[zen]

Its not Sachin's fault that people are obsessed with his numbers. After all you and all Aussies are obsessed with Bradman's 99+ average and quote it everywhere. What difference does an average of 99 or average of 50 make as long as the team is winning. Again, you are putting others intentions to Sachin, Sachin has never said he likes records, they come as he plays. On what basis do you say that Sachin is playing on only for numbers? He could then have easily retired from ODIs er the WC, aftas he has accomplished all there. He is playing on only for the team. He was also one of the reasons India won the world cup and became no 1 in tests so he has proved right by staying on, the team has gained immensely because of him

To know the difference b/w an avg of 100 and 100 100s, you need to know what constitutes as an avg .... I think Bradman's avg is quoted to show that he is in the league of his own. I hope you know that 100 100s is not the same as an avg of 100 :winky: I would have been happy if Sachin had retired after the WC. And every team benefits from having great players, the question is have we not learned from Sachin after having him in the side for 2 decades. If we still need to keep on learning from him, along with milking him, then something is wrong with our structure I am a Sachin fan and see that he has the potential to show the Indians a direction. When most of the nation is wrongly obsessed with numbers (because for some years, ppl only saw Ind as a world beater through Sachin's numbers), it would go a long way if Sachin retires before getting his 100th 100. That wouild pass a message to the numbers obsessed culture to look beyond numbers in a team sport. IMO, delivering this message is far more important than just playing on and on. If he gets 100th 100 the obsession with numbers will only gain more strength, thus providing diminishing returns in the long run .... As a role model, I wanted Sachin to set an example and open our obsessed eyes When I write against Sachin, I am writing against this obsession and fanatism (a sort of a mental disorder many dillusional Indians suffer from), which does more harm than good

[akshayxyz]

If SRT retires after 100th 100 ( or some other magical number) - I would be most disappointed - as it would prove people like you were right - to some extent. I wish, he plays as long as he keeps giving 100%, whether it is blocking some youngster's place - I am least bothered about.