Annoyed with Dhoni's test match batting

[King Tendulkar]

Dhoni is overarted. But to start bigging up mongia is takin it to far!

[asterix]

Wasn't Mongia accused of Match Fixing? It's a disgrace to even compare him with Dhoni..

[akshayxyz]

Wasn't Mongia accused of Match Fixing? It's a disgrace to even compare him with Dhoni..

you are mixing apples and oranges... - comparing skills with integrity. I am just commenting on your logic and not conclusion.

[rkt.india]

@Outsider since WC1983 Indian cricket changed a lot as we were good in ODIs but still were very average to poor in test arena till the last decade and the accolades and adulation you talked about Dhoni is getting is just because what he has done in ODI cricket. A common Indians or normal cricket fans do not give much importance to test matches as much as ODIs and they are the people who make players what they are. Since WC 1983, Indian cricketers got a lot of fame due to what they did in ODIs. Take an example of Saurav Ganguly who had started his test career fantastically, but at the end of his career, he was decent to average test batsman, but he too gets the kind of name he has is because his exploits in One day cricket and what he did during his captaincy. Dhoni's case is very similar, He is so popular because of his ODI batting and captaincy record in both tests and ODIs. We talk about how we started winning abroad in Ganguly's captaincy, but we forget the only series we won against a major test nation was in subcontinent against Pak in SG's captaincy apart from Zimbabwe and a drawn series in Aus, while we won test series in WI and in England in Dravid's captaincy, and won series in NZ and WI in Dhoni's captaincy as well as we drew test series in SL and SA which we had never done before.

[asterix]

At the end of the day, what is more importent, skills or integrity, if one has to choose any one?

[CG]

@Outsider since WC1983 Indian cricket changed a lot as we were good in ODIs but still were very average to poor in test arena till the last decade and the accolades and adulation you talked about Dhoni is getting is just because what he has done in ODI cricket. A common Indians or normal cricket fans do not give much importance to test matches as much as ODIs and they are the people who make players what they are. Since WC 1983, Indian cricketers got a lot of fame due to what they did in ODIs. Take an example of Saurav Ganguly who had started his test career fantastically, but at the end of his career, he was decent to average test batsman, but he too gets the kind of name he has is because his exploits in One day cricket and what he did during his captaincy. Dhoni's case is very similar, He is so popular because of his ODI batting and captaincy record in both tests and ODIs. We talk about how we started winning abroad in Ganguly's captaincy, but we forget the only series we won against a major test nation was in subcontinent against Pak in SG's captaincy apart from Zimbabwe and a drawn series in Aus, while we won test series in WI and in England in Dravid's captaincy, and won series in NZ and WI in Dhoni's captaincy as well as we drew test series in SL and SA which we had never done before.

Average? He was good do not forget he started career in 1996 and for a decade had to face some great bowling attacks nowadays 42 might seem low,but he got 7k runs not average by any means and last few years he did well abroad also.

[ganeshran]

That is immaterial - the discussion here doesnt seek to choose between them. In a discussion of comparing cricketing skill alone, integrity is irrelevant.

[rkt.india]

Average? He was good do not forget he started career in 1996 and for a decade had to face some great bowling attacks nowadays 42 might seem low,but he got 7k runs not average by any means and last few years he did well abroad also.

average of 42 even after batting on Indian pitches is certainly average. He started well but at the end he was an average test player, but a great ODI bat.

[CG]

average of 42 even after batting on Indian pitches is certainly average. He started well but at the end he was an average test player' date=' but a great ODI bat.[/quote'] Average of 42 after 113 tests is good also Pitches all over the world were not as flat as they now,during the 1990,s to 2003 average of 40+ was considered very good and ganguly maintained it he dropped in form after 2003 but he regained in his last few years,he was good certainly you cannot deny him that.

[rkt.india]

Average of 42 after 113 tests is good also Pitches all over the world were not as flat as they now' date='during the 1990,s to 2003 average of 40+ was considered very good and ganguly maintained it he dropped in form after 2003 but he regained in his last few years,he was good certainly you cannot deny him that.[/quote'] ok in 113 tests, i remember only one innings that is 144 at Gabba.

[akshayxyz]

At the end of the day' date=' what is more importent, skills or integrity, if one has to choose any one?[/quote'] I was expecting this, below is your answer.

[Ram]

I'll take the bait. Following four innings are when I would rate him at his best. Will you classify them as below average: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63721.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63660.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63828.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63745.html ?

I dont understand dude, what are you trying to get at here? If the best case you can come up with for Mongia is that he played a handful of reasonable innings here and there, then we can apply the same yardstick for so many other players too. Ajit Agarkar has a 100 at Lords when everyone else in the team failed. Ajay Ratra scored an important 100 in the Windies. Heck, even Deep Dasgupta has a 100. It doesnt prove anything about their batting credentials. MSD is far and away the best keeper batsmen we've had, BY a A LIGHT YEAR. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply deluding themselves. Do you honestly think Mongia was capable of scoring an counter-attacking 100 that MSD scored in Pakistan to rescue us with Irfan? Do you think Mongia was capable of playing a match-saving innings like MSD did, at Lords in 2007? Of course, I'd be the first one to admit that MSD's test batting leaves a lot to be desired at the moment, but given what he brings to the team (unparalleled leadership + reliale keeping), its ludicrous to even contemplate dropping him from the test team right now.