ViruRulez Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 I was just checking the per capita income of countries and most European countries have some of the highest per capita incomes in the world. 11 of them have a higher per capita income than even UK. I can understand why Indians, South Asians, Africans or other Asians move to UK as the per capita income in those countries is not even a fraction of those in the UK. For example, UK has nearly 10 times the Indian per capita. The Arabs move to UK etc. due to freedom etc. But in case of other European countries, they neither have a terrible per capita as in South Asia nor is there any problem with freedom as in the Arab world (in fact most European countries have more freedom compared to UK if I am not incorrect). So, why do they move to the UK for jobs etc.? I believe most of you would have seen the popular racist video in UK recently where the lady abuses several migrants including a Polish person for being a burden on their economy. I just checked the per capita income of Poland and it is an awesome 19K dollars nearly as compared to India's 3400 or UK's 35K. So, it is not as if there is a massive difference in the earning or standard of living in those countries. So, why do they migrate? Interesting and maybe the ICF members from UK can answer it better. Here is a per capita list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita Luxembourg, Norway, Switzerland, Netherlands, Austria, Iceland, Denmark, Belgium, Germany, Sweden and Ireland have per capita income larger than that of UK. Even the European Union as a whole has a per capita of 30K which is quite near to England. So, why is there a migration from those countries? :hmmm:
achilles Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Its like everyone in India wanting to move to Mumbai. There are- 1. Better opportunities. 2. A Great chance to grow. 3. A better life.
panther Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 the ones that migrate are from poor former soviet states
ViruRulez Posted December 3, 2011 Author Posted December 3, 2011 Its like everyone in India wanting to move to Mumbai. There are- 1. Better opportunities. 2. A Great chance to grow. 3. A better life. If that would have been the case with opportunities and better life only then how come many of the European countries even have better per capita than UK. :hmmm: the ones that migrate are from poor former soviet states Makes sense. Just checked and interestingly none of the poor soviet states have per capita lower than South Asian nations including India. So, maybe for those states it is the "humans always want more" factor at work as their own countries are still much better in terms of per capita than South Asia or many other countries.
G_B_ Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 the answer is in your opening post. the pound is a strong curreny, what you have quoted is PPP. The polish nominal gdp per capita is only $12,000. For the UK that number is $36,000 as of now. So there is a large scope to remit money back home. Most polish work on infra projects for 3-4 years. Save up money and buy a house in poland and settle down. Its become a right of passage for the polish youth to work in agriculture in the UK over the summer. Its a misconception they migrate foremost to the UK, bulk goto Germany and France. even the arabs. A lot of them come from foreign colonies and English is the language of the world.
bulbul Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Its like everyone in India wanting to move to Mumbai. There are- 1. Better opportunities. 2. A Great chance to grow. 3. A better life. 10 year back
panther Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 If that would have been the case with opportunities and better life only then how come many of the European countries even have better per capita than UK. :hmmm: Makes sense. Just checked and interestingly none of the poor soviet states have per capita lower than South Asian nations including India. So, maybe for those states it is the "humans always want more" factor at work as their own countries are still much better in terms of per capita than South Asia or many other countries. many also migrate from poland, lithuania etc
nikred Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Its like everyone in India wanting to move to Mumbai. There are- 1. Better opportunities. 2. A Great chance to grow. 3. A better life. huh.........no.
ViruRulez Posted December 3, 2011 Author Posted December 3, 2011 the answer is in your opening post. the pound is a strong curreny, what you have quoted is PPP. The polish nominal gdp per capita is only $12,000. For the UK that number is $36,000 as of now. So there is a large scope to remit money back home. Most polish work on infra projects for 3-4 years. Save up money and buy a house in poland and settle down. Its become a right of passage for the polish youth to work in agriculture in the UK over the summer. Its a misconception they migrate foremost to the UK, bulk goto Germany and France. even the arabs. A lot of them come from foreign colonies and English is the language of the world. The nominal GDP seems even more interesting and India and other South Asian countries are in in the 1K level in that. Europeans seem to be ruling in nominal per capita too.
G_B_ Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 The nominal GDP seems even more interesting and India and other South Asian countries are in in the 1K level in that. Europeans seem to be ruling in nominal per capita too. forget the polish when Germany reunited the eastern germans moved to places like Bavaria in waves. Thats despite West Germany pouring $1 trillion into east germany in the 1990s. Even now places in east germany are ghost towns of sort when it comes to young people The reason is simple, they earn in the west and remit back home. Also the difference of the polish in the UK is that many return home.The % of South asians returning is low. Most SA settle down. I have been born and raised in the UK. Even my parents remitted part of their money back home and bought a flat in mumbai to settle down after retirement. If the delta difference is big enough there always will be movement. Polish are part of the EU and dont need visa. they are free to move. They can go back home via easyjet etc. Take the UK as well. How many anglo saxons move to places like Australia and the USA? There is no difference that big there right?
Dhondy Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 You won't find the explanation in GDP per capita figures. The reason East Europeans migrate to the UK is because 20% of the indigenous working age population in the UK are work-shy, i.e they prefer to live on welfare rather than be employed. Many of them are generationally unemployable- their parents and grandparents haven't worked either, and the state has picked up the tab. If the Poles didn't fill these vacancies, many companies would struggle. Herein lies the invisible elephant in the debate in Europe's sovereign crisis- Europe's welfare state. Competing with developing nations like China, India and Brazil is liking swimming with an arm akimbo. These countries are unencumbered by having to spend a quarter of their governmental budget on welfare. Even wealthy nations like USA spend a far lower proportion of their GDP on welfare. In Europe though, even the right wingers are left leaning and the sense of entitlement is deeply entrenched in popular psyche. Where else in the world would you get paid the equivalent of 80,000 Indian rupees per year, for 16 years, tax-free, for your newborn? It is difficult to imagine another place in the world where benefits for unemployed and unemployable rise at 5%, year upon year, while the workforce reels under a 5-year pay freeze. It's economics gone mad. Sooner or later, somebody will have to articulate the unspeakable- for Europe to survive, the welfare state has to go. Sadly for most of us, it ain't happening soon.
maniac Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 Its like everyone in India wanting to move to Mumbai. There are- 1. Better opportunities. 2. A Great chance to grow. 3. A better life. May be for people from the more backward regions of India Not any more......Bangalore,Hyd (atleast-2 yrs back before the Telangana issue),Pune all awesome places to settle down with all the options mentioned above, decent weather and decent cost of living with more space for sure.
jairamesh Posted December 3, 2011 Posted December 3, 2011 You won't find the explanation in GDP per capita figures. The reason East Europeans migrate to the UK is because 20% of the indigenous working age population in the UK are work-shy, i.e they prefer to live on welfare rather than be employed. Many of them are generationally unemployable- their parents and grandparents haven't worked either, and the state has picked up the tab. If the Poles didn't fill these vacancies, many companies would struggle. Herein lies the invisible elephant in the debate in Europe's sovereign crisis- Europe's welfare state. Competing with developing nations like China, India and Brazil is liking swimming with an arm akimbo. These countries are unencumbered by having to spend a quarter of their governmental budget on welfare. Even wealthy nations like USA spend a far lower proportion of their GDP on welfare. In Europe though, even the right wingers are left leaning and the sense of entitlement is deeply entrenched in popular psyche. Where else in the world would you get paid the equivalent of 80,000 Indian rupees per year, for 16 years, tax-free, for your newborn? It is difficult to imagine another place in the world where benefits for unemployed and unemployable rise at 5%, year upon year, while the workforce reels under a 5-year pay freeze. It's economics gone mad. Sooner or later, somebody will have to articulate the unspeakable- for Europe to survive, the welfare state has to go. Sadly for most of us, it ain't happening soon. Exactly, not only this but many European countries (i.e. UK, France, Italy, Spain) have been living on debt since the 60s funding this welfare programs and inflating their incomes (though some have spent wisely) Here is one stat that's mind boggling: The average Debt per capita in the UK is USD 144,338! (GDP per capita USD 36,000) India: Debt per capita: USD 266 (GDP per capita USD 1480) China: Debt per capita: USD 396 (GDP per capita USD 4400) And right now the likes of US, EU, and UK are cheating their way out by printing more money to inflate their way out of debt, which won't make the China very happy. It's an absolute scam the IMF and World Bank have been sponsoring since World War II.
bulbul Posted December 4, 2011 Posted December 4, 2011 You won't find the explanation in GDP per capita figures. The reason East Europeans migrate to the UK is because 20% of the indigenous working age population in the UK are work-shy, i.e they prefer to live on welfare rather than be employed. Many of them are generationally unemployable- their parents and grandparents haven't worked either, and the state has picked up the tab. If the Poles didn't fill these vacancies, many companies would struggle. Herein lies the invisible elephant in the debate in Europe's sovereign crisis- Europe's welfare state. Competing with developing nations like China, India and Brazil is liking swimming with an arm akimbo. These countries are unencumbered by having to spend a quarter of their governmental budget on welfare. Even wealthy nations like USA spend a far lower proportion of their GDP on welfare. In Europe though, even the right wingers are left leaning and the sense of entitlement is deeply entrenched in popular psyche. Where else in the world would you get paid the equivalent of 80,000 Indian rupees per year, for 16 years, tax-free, for your newborn? It is difficult to imagine another place in the world where benefits for unemployed and unemployable rise at 5%, year upon year, while the workforce reels under a 5-year pay freeze. It's economics gone mad. Sooner or later, somebody will have to articulate the unspeakable- for Europe to survive, the welfare state has to go. Sadly for most of us, it ain't happening soon. isnt UK never tried to address this Issue...Even after recessions ? i think its pathetic for some Govts support able bodied people when even Old ladies in Developing countries still works for a lliving
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