Performances of young batsmen in Tests outside Asia

[saneindian]

The thing is Sehwag' date= Ganguly, Dravid played a lot of ranji trophy cricket before making their test debuts. Here, most of our youngsters like Kohli, Yuvraaj, Raina never played much domestic FC cricket to develop their game because they were busy playing ODI cricket for India or sitting on the bench during most test series and they cannot become test players by playing ODIs. They developed as ODI players and all three are very good ODI players. If we want to have test players, we need to let our potentially talented batsmen play FC cricket and let them tour abroad with proper A team games. We should not select test player based on ODI performances, rather select a player who has played FC matches a lot. Selectors did lots of mistakes in not selecting likes of Dinesh Mongia and Hemang Badani for tests who had more FC experience, more FC runs, and much better technique than Yuvraaj. They were not the best ODI players, but selectors went for ODI performances, same thing happened with Mohammad Kaif.

That statement is so factually incorrect. let's see the first class record of each of those names before they made their first class debut Dravid- 50 matches, 4200+runs@61 Dada- 51 matches, 3000+ runs@44 VVS- 22 matches, 1800+ runs@56 Sehwag- 34 matches, 2700+ runs@58 And now the first class record of younger players before they made their test debut Yuvraj- 43 matches, 2900+ runs@46 Raina - 51 matches, 3000+ runs@44 Pujara- 49 matches, 3900+ runs@60 Mukund- 40 matches, 3400+ runs@59 Kohli- 30 matches, 2100+runs@58 Two guys who could be making their test debuts soon Rahane- 50 matches, 4800+ runs@69 Rohit- 46 matches, 3700+ runs@64 Can't see any correlation between FC experience and success at the test level. If that was the case, Murali Vijay and Badri would have been permanent members of the test team by now. Also, you have to go into the reason why the selectors were forced to start looking for youngsters with good potential and giving them chances in Test cricket based on ODI form. Between 1996-2000 the likes of Ramesh, Devang Gandhi, Vikram Rathoure, Kanitkar, Vijay Bharadwaj, Jacob Martyn all heavy scorers in domestic cricket with loads of FC experience were tried and found wanting. That was the primary driver behind giving the likes of Kaif a debut purely on potential in 2000 and later on giving Yuvraj a run in tests based on ODI form. And lest you forget, SS Das, Akash Chopra, Badani did get their chances before Yuvraj made his test debut. So can't really say players have been chosen for tests purely on ODI form. And if grooming test players based on ODI performances was bad, how do you explain the success of Sehwag and Gambhir, both first made their mark in ODIs before cementing their test spots.

[bulbul]

regarding people debate about FC success not translating into Test level...The Cricketing environment is completely changed now...Players need not necessarily see test matches as the ultimate goal..as time changes priorities changes.. Main problem may be the Hunger for success in test level..i dont think we can find many players now a days who have same hungryness as Our Big 3 + Viru , Zak etc when they started playing cricket

[Utalk]

Some scary FC averages by Indian youngsters there.

[Pak_Fan_4_Eva]

What's the probability Sehwag will be dropped or at least demoted? Rahane was mighty impressive against WI. I'd like to watch him play here.

[ganeshran]

Pujara is the only youngster who has looked capable of being long term in the team. Others have either not made their debut (Rohit, Rahane) or faced a tough time (Kohli, Mukund) or simply are poor test batsmen ( Raina). For the next two years, the first four should be given enough chances regardless of their performance to help them find their feet in international cricket. A musical chair policy is bound to fail

[BeautifulGame]

Some scary FC averages by Indian youngsters there.

And the worst thing is we have not even given those youngsters with scary averages a decent run in test cricket :facepalm: And the likes of Raina Vijay and Yuvraj has played tons of tests.Shows how pathetic Indian selectors are.

[BeautifulGame]

Pujara is the only youngster who has looked capable of being long term in the team. Others have either not made their debut (Rohit, Rahane) or faced a tough time (Kohli, Mukund) or simply are poor test batsmen ( Raina). For the next two years, the first four should be given enough chances regardless of their performance to help them find their feet in international cricket. A musical chair policy is bound to fail

100% agree with. But for this to happen we need our seniors to retire soon with dignity and selectors to have some common sense approach.Very much doubt either is possible

[ganeshran]

100% agree with. But for this to happen we need our seniors to retire soon with dignity and selectors to have some common sense approach.Very much doubt either is possible

VVS will retire after this tour, so there is opening for 2 young batsmen in the lineup. Dravid also might go before the end of this year. Till the 3rd place opens up, atleast one of the two new guys should have justified his place and become a consistent performer. Similarly when SRT retires next year atleast 2 batsmen should have cemented their place in the lineup, otherwise yuvi will be back.

[saneindian]

No better time than now to give Rahane and Rohit 2 tests in Australia. Let them have the experience, even if they fail it will be part of the learning curve.

[daryl1985]

That statement is so factually incorrect. let's see the first class record of each of those names before they made their first class debut Dravid- 50 matches, 4200+runs@61 Dada- 51 matches, 3000+ runs@44 VVS- 22 matches, 1800+ runs@56 Sehwag- 34 matches, 2700+ runs@58 And now the first class record of younger players before they made their test debut Yuvraj- 43 matches, 2900+ runs@46 Raina - 51 matches, 3000+ runs@44 Pujara- 49 matches, 3900+ runs@60 Mukund- 40 matches, 3400+ runs@59 Kohli- 30 matches, 2100+runs@58 Two guys who could be making their test debuts soon Rahane- 50 matches, 4800+ runs@69 Rohit- 46 matches, 3700+ runs@64 Can't see any correlation between FC experience and success at the test level. If that was the case, Murali Vijay and Badri would have been permanent members of the test team by now. Also, you have to go into the reason why the selectors were forced to start looking for youngsters with good potential and giving them chances in Test cricket based on ODI form. Between 1996-2000 the likes of Ramesh, Devang Gandhi, Vikram Rathoure, Kanitkar, Vijay Bharadwaj, Jacob Martyn all heavy scorers in domestic cricket with loads of FC experience were tried and found wanting. That was the primary driver behind giving the likes of Kaif a debut purely on potential in 2000 and later on giving Yuvraj a run in tests based on ODI form. And lest you forget, SS Das, Akash Chopra, Badani did get their chances before Yuvraj made his test debut. So can't really say players have been chosen for tests purely on ODI form. And if grooming test players based on ODI performances was bad, how do you explain the success of Sehwag and Gambhir, both first made their mark in ODIs before cementing their test spots.

Beasts.

[Tendulkar_Bhai]

VVS will retire after this tour' date=' so there is opening for 2 young batsmen in the lineup. Dravid also might go before the end of this year. Till the 3rd place opens up, atleast one of the two new guys should have justified his place and become a consistent performer. [b']Similarly when SRT retires next year atleast 2 batsmen should have cemented their place in the lineup, otherwise yuvi will be back.

:omg::cry_smile:

[rkt.india]

That statement is so factually incorrect. let's see the first class record of each of those names before they made their first class debut Dravid- 50 matches, 4200+runs@61 Dada- 51 matches, 3000+ runs@44 VVS- 22 matches, 1800+ runs@56 Sehwag- 34 matches, 2700+ runs@58 And now the first class record of younger players before they made their test debut Yuvraj- 43 matches, 2900+ runs@46 Raina - 51 matches, 3000+ runs@44 Pujara- 49 matches, 3900+ runs@60 Mukund- 40 matches, 3400+ runs@59 Kohli- 30 matches, 2100+runs@58 Two guys who could be making their test debuts soon Rahane- 50 matches, 4800+ runs@69 Rohit- 46 matches, 3700+ runs@64 Can't see any correlation between FC experience and success at the test level. If that was the case, Murali Vijay and Badri would have been permanent members of the test team by now. Also, you have to go into the reason why the selectors were forced to start looking for youngsters with good potential and giving them chances in Test cricket based on ODI form. Between 1996-2000 the likes of Ramesh, Devang Gandhi, Vikram Rathoure, Kanitkar, Vijay Bharadwaj, Jacob Martyn all heavy scorers in domestic cricket with loads of FC experience were tried and found wanting. That was the primary driver behind giving the likes of Kaif a debut purely on potential in 2000 and later on giving Yuvraj a run in tests based on ODI form. And lest you forget, SS Das, Akash Chopra, Badani did get their chances before Yuvraj made his test debut. So can't really say players have been chosen for tests purely on ODI form. And if grooming test players based on ODI performances was bad, how do you explain the success of Sehwag and Gambhir, both first made their mark in ODIs before cementing their test spots.

You are right here that some of these guys have played quite a lot, but you did not understand my point. I was talking about likes of Yuvraaj, Raina, Kohli, etc. My point was if selectors think that one player has potential then they must let that player play more FC cricket and on A tours to develop their game further that did not happen with likes of Yuvraaj, Raina, even Kohli who has not played much FC cricket since he has started playing in ODIs for India. Guys like Rahaane, Mukund has played quite a lot FC, though I never thought Mukund is as talented as Yuvraaj, Raina, or Kohli, but they have not played much one day or T20 too. If some one starts playing ODI and T20 regularly, it can affect the technique. Look at what happened to Vijay. When he first came on to the scene he looked so good around his off stump and used to leave a lot of balls in tests, now when he plays tests, he does not know which ball to leave and tries to play every ball. That is where players go wrong. Because when they play shorter formats, they forget what they need to do in longer format and usually they do not play enough FC cricket as they are playing shorter formats for India and as they play less FC, they forget the traits to survive in longer format.

[rkt.india]

Beasts.

On Indian pitches. Rahane was exposed in warmups. He does not have good footwork forward and plays mainly from back foot and is a big caught behind candidate. Rohit plays across a lot like Laxman and is a bi LBW and bowled candidate when ball swings or seam.

[prashsenga]

I dont understand why everyone here is so against badrinath. To be fair to him he might no be ODI material but i strongly believe he has 4-5 years of test cricket left in him. He seems like the batsman who can grind it out like a hussey. again hussey is a great and iyts premature to compare badri with him, but i feel badri can do really well in tests. let us give him a chance guyz. when sehwag can flop so many times outside India, why cant we at least give badri 25% of the chances that sehwag got.. Obviously Pujara, Rohit, Kohli and rahane are at the higher pecking order. but i would want badri to come right down below these 4 along with Mukund. I would prefer playing a badri in tests ahead of raina or yuvraj. The need of the hour is to make test cricket attractive from a financial point. If everything goes the IPL way i am sure quality will reduce so much that barring IPL people would not care to watch any other form of cricket because all our domestic batsmen an bowlers wll become so retarded in tuning their game to suit IPL that we will become laughing stock even in ODIs. we were lucky that we got rohit, raina and virat at the same time. but honestly the rest from domestic fail to inspire confidence in ODIs .... Make Ranji a priority and IPL for only players who have played at least 3 years in Ranji... lets not kill their fundamentals by allowing easy access to IPL..

[Utalk]

Indian batsmen like rehane and rohit average 70 in FC and our bowlers like sadaf and Rameez average 17/18 with the ball. It says a lot about bowling and batting standards in both countries.

[BeautifulGame]

On Indian pitches. Rahane was exposed in warmups. He does not have good footwork forward and plays mainly from back foot and is a big caught behind candidate.

Come on.We didnt even watch the warm up games.Basically maing assumptions on scorecard and one line commentry.Do we even know whether he struggled or looked good before he got out.Or whether he got out due to poor technique or poor umpire decisions or just very good deliveries? If his technique is exposed then how did he score in emerging players tournament? Its illogical to judge a player based on 3 innings which u havent even seen.

[rkt.india]

Indian batsmen like rehane and rohit average 70 in FC and our bowlers like sadaf and Rameez average 17/18 with the ball. It says a lot about bowling and batting standards in both countries.

It says more about the conditions which they play in rather than batting and bowling.

[rkt.india]

Come on.We didnt even watch the warm up games.Basically maing assumptions on scorecard and one line commentry.Do we even know whether he struggled or looked good before he got out.Or whether he got out due to poor technique or poor umpire decisions? If his technique is exposed then how did he score in emerging players tournament? Its illogical to judge a player based on 3 innings which u havent even seen.

No it was evident even on ODIs he played and I have seen him in FC matches as well. I am judging his foot work based on ODIs. He lacked that front foot stride and is a back foot player. Yaar Emerging tournament pitch was is the flattest wicket in Australia. Saurabh Tiwary made 151 their Manoj Tiwary scored 188, Manish Pandey scored at a strike of 90. That wicket is very similar to Indian pitches. Reeza Hendricks from SA was dismissed only once in that whole 3-day tournament and scored over 500 runs in 3 matches. It tells all about the kind of pitch was there in EPT.

[BeautifulGame]

Look at what happened to Vijay. When he first came on to the scene he looked so good around his off stump and used to leave a lot of balls in tests, now when he plays tests, he does not know which ball to leave and tries to play every ball.

I have heard this nonsense again and again without any proof. Tell me a single quality knock Vijay played in tough conditions away from home before he was supposedly ruined by IPL.Even when he was selected for India after that 200 he was always a fair weather player.Its always Badri who would stuck around for us when conditions are tough in Ranji trophy. Vijay never had the technique.Just because he looked classy playing shots every one assumed he had the technique.But when in non-subcontinental conditions he was exposed for his lack of technique which he never had everyone suddenly blamed IPL comically. There is a reason why he even failed in T20s away from India.

[bharat297]

I think persevere with the guys who have the technique. From my viewing, the most technically solid of the young cricketers appear to be Rohit Sharma, Ambati Rayadu, Ajinkya Rahane, and Cheteswhar Pujara. Its worth persevering with these guys I think.