BeautifulGame Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Yeah' date=' we all seen how the youngsters have replaced Ganguly in 3 years (in Indian conditions)[/quote'] Not true.Apart from Raina not a single youngster have played 2 tests in India in last 4 years.So what exactly are u on about? Pujara played a single match and scored a match winning 75.Kohli played a single test and scored 50 in both innings. And blame selectors for chosing Raina in tests.He isnt the sole representive of youngsters in India.They chose him based on ODIs and Ranji trophy. If u are going to judge the youngster who average 60+ like Rohit Pujara and Rahane based on Raina and Yuvi (who is not even a youngster) its not even worth debating.
Lord Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 We have given chances to wrong players at no. 6 by now Raina and Yuvraaj who were never going to be good enough as test players. I believe Yuvraj has not performed much worse than Ganguly at 6 apart from his failure in Australia last tour he has done quite well but has been plagued with injuries. We should not expect any miracles from youngsters because even our ATG seniors are not able to do any miracles overseas and at home, we can win even with youngsters. Another thing, we will have less hopes and less expectation with our youngsters and in the end less disappointment even if we lose. I will be happy to lose with youngsters in the team rather than having the best batting line up on paper disappointing every one match after match who are not going to take our cricket anywhere down the line. firstly,no we cant win at home with all youngsters,not against top teams certainly. secondly,a loss is a loss,to think that the disappointment would've been less if we played youngsters is wrong.youngsters too need someone to guide n thats what seniors do.dont just look at thier runs.besides even if we look at runs,they r doing better than youngsters,Kohli failed in WI n failing here.so how is that taking the team forward??
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I am seeing us loosing even at home against England this year.
BeautifulGame Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Dravid has performed extremely well throughout 2011. Laxman failed in the England series and has failed in Aus (around 12 innings total) - I don't see how 12 innings is reason enough to ask someone like Laxman to retire. 12 innings is enough because he is already 37 and we dont have any away series of next 3 years. Laxman has no hope in hell of playing in our next away series so its time to blood youngsters.
Sachin=GOD Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 The age he is getting in along with consistent failures. They have to go one day and until they go, we do not go forward or bring new players. we are still losing with these ATG and may still lose with youngsters but at least we will not have hopes and once youngsters mature we can certainly see them doing well. Raina did well in WI, Raina did not do well in England but Laxman too did not do well in England, we dropped Raina, but not Laxman why?Double standards. because Laxman has a track record of consistently performing well and such players are not dropped because of failure in one Test series while Raina was a newcomer and there were quite a few others waiting to take his place if he failed (Kohli, Rohit, Pujara etc).
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 so failure in 6 Test matches is all that is needed to write off all the good work that these guys have done for many years?? and BTW, its not as if youngsters have made tons of runs in these series to give any evidence of how good they are - Kohli has failed in Aus and Raina failed in England. It is not writing off anyone. BTW, it is the time to blood youngsters at home rather than playing ATGs where they are all supposed to score runs again and we will again be expecting them score runs and once they go outside and we will see them failing again. Regarding youngsters scoring runs, as I said earlier, I have no expectations and even if we lose them, it is fine for me because they will be getting some experience and that defeat less moral damaging than the humiliation we are getting match after match. With so much expectations, if we lose that hurts more than the loss with less expectations.
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 firstly,no we cant win at home with all youngsters,not against top teams certainly. secondly,a loss is a loss,to think that the disappointment would've been less if we played youngsters is wrong.youngsters too need someone to guide n thats what seniors do.dont just look at thier runs.besides even if we look at runs,they r doing better than youngsters,Kohli failed in WI n failing here.so how is that taking the team forward?? I am happy SRT playing 1-2 more years to guide youngsters, but I think time for RD and VVS has come. WE have 2-3 youngsters who can take their places at home easily and they need that experience and confidence of playing well at home first to go abroad. They are not getting any younger and not performing well too that is the enough reason for them to say good bye now.
BeautifulGame Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 firstly,no we cant win at home with all youngsters,not against top teams certainly. secondly,a loss is a loss,to think that the disappointment would've been less if we played youngsters is wrong.youngsters too need someone to guide n thats what seniors do.dont just look at thier runs.besides even if we look at runs,they r doing better than youngsters,Kohli failed in WI n failing here.so how is that taking the team forward?? Firstly Not everyone start their career blisteringly.Plenty of players usually struggle initially until they get their first hundred or their place is secured in the team.If we had used the same logic some are using here against Kohli both Laxman and Gambhir should have been given another chance and we would still be playing with manjeraker. Secondly yes a disappointment wont change because we are playing with youngsters.But atleast there would be some good things if the youngsters were the ones playing.They would have gained experience in their first tour and that would have helped them perform better when we tour next time.Just like how horror performances of Ganguly and Dravid in 99 helped them perform better in 2003 in Australia. Can u tell me one good thing that can be considered as positive by playing the seniors in all these last 6 tests?
Needforspeed Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 It is not writing off anyone. BTW, it is the time to blood youngsters at home rather than playing ATGs where they are all supposed to score runs again and we will again be expecting them score runs and once they go outside and we will see them failing again. Regarding youngsters scoring runs, as I said earlier, I have no expectations and even if we lose them, it is fine for me because they will be getting some experience and that defeat less moral damaging than the humiliation we are getting match after match. With so much expectations, if we lose that hurts more than the loss with less expectations. +1. Plus the next time we tour abroad is nearly two years away and Sachin and Dravid will be 41 and Laxman 39. Already Laxman and Dravid are liabilities in the field. Even if they play well in India, I dont see them physically lasting a gruelling tour of South Africa on their pitches against their quicks. So then we will have the same youngsters straight away making their debuts in South Africa or England.
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 because Laxman has a track record of consistently performing well and such players are not dropped because of failure in one Test series while Raina was a newcomer and there were quite a few others waiting to take his place if he failed (Kohli' date=' Rohit, Pujara etc).[/quote'] But he is consistently failing now.
Sachin=GOD Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 But he is consistently failing now. he has failed in 6 Test matches but people are making it sound like its been 60 Test matches :facepalm:
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 he has failed in 6 Test matches but people are making it sound like its been 60 Test matches :facepalm: Don't you think 6 test matches is enough for a 37 year old who is on the verge of retirement and is not getting any younger and is not going to tour abroad next time we go abroad and also is struggling with his fitness.
Needforspeed Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Anyone knows Laxman's combined Test average in the Tests of the South Africa Series (2011), England Series and the present Aussie tour?
Lord Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I am happy SRT playing 1-2 more years to guide youngsters' date=' but I think time for RD and VVS has come. WE have 2-3 youngsters who can take their places at home easily and they need that experience and confidence of playing well at home first to go abroad. They are not getting any younger and not performing well too that is the enough reason for them to say good bye now.[/quote'] Dracid yes(hes 39)but not sure about VVS,yes hes not made runs in Eng n in Aus so far,but thats just 12 overseas innings.we forget he made runs in WI n in India v WI hes 37.unlike Dravid hes not getting out in the same way by missing stright ones,or dropping dollies consistently.I think he can play 1 yr more.u have to phse them out one by one.
Sachin=GOD Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Don't you think 6 test matches is enough for a 37 year old who is on the verge of retirement and is not getting any younger and is not going to tour abroad next time we go abroad and also is struggling with his fitness. I don't think 6 Test matches is enough for a player who has consistently performed and has helped his team win matches on many occasions.
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Dracid yes(hes 39)but not sure about VVS' date='yes hes not made runs in Eng n in Aus so far,but thats just 12 overseas innings.we forget he made runs in WI n in India v WI hes 37.unlike Dravid hes not getting out in the same way by missing stright ones,or dropping dollies consistently.I think he can play 1 yr more.u have to phse them out one by one.[/quote'] He getting out even worse manner than Dravid like in both innings at SCG and he is worst at fitness even when he is 2 years younger than Dravid. I am for both RD and VVS to go after this series and a place for Pujara and Rohit for them the next time we play test this year.
Sachin=GOD Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 In his last 12 tests abroad he has averaged close to 30. This include series against minnows like Windies. Go facepalm somewhere else. he is the 4th highest scorer in the World in Tests played abroad in the last 2 years. p.s. the 1st and 2nd names in that list are Goddy and Draivd. Cook is 3rd.
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I don't think 6 Test matches is enough for a player who has consistently performed and has helped his team win matches on many occasions. Yes I would have agreed if the player was not 37 years old or had a fitness like Laxman like in case of Ponting who still is fitter than an Indian 24 year old.
saneindian Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 he has failed in 6 Test matches but people are making it sound like its been 60 Test matches :facepalm: Ganguly lost his spot for one series failure in SL in 2008. 6 tests, an avg of 20, aging body, liability in the field..everything is loaded against VVS right now. Had he been 35, it would have been different, he is 37, has had a troubled back for the last 2-3 years. Questions are bound to be asked especially when his own form is bad and the team is losing. Questioning his place based on his current form isn't the same as questioning what he has done for the team. His contributions will always put him among the top 5-6 test batsmen the country has produced.
rkt.india Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 he is the 4th highest scorer in the World in Tests played abroad in the last 2 years. p.s. the 1st and 2nd names in that list are Goddy and Draivd. Cook is 3rd. but look at last 12 tests and it is getting worse..2 years ago he was 35, now he is 37, and I am not sure he will be touring outside again and if he will not tour than who will obviously a youngster. Will you be happy then to throw a youngster straightaway in the deep sea? I would want that guy to play a few tests before that.
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