Alchemist Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 If people can fight for rights of abortion, I think sucide can be decriminalised too.
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 The philosphical answer to that is a question. Which is the most precious sentiment in life? Love? Lust? Faith? Hope. Possibly its the last. You cant have the rest without hope. And when you talk of euthnasia you basically talk of giving up on hope, that one sentiment that keeps us all going maybe? :sniffle:That's true and as I always keep saying zindagi ummeed pe khayam hai. Personally I wouldn't commit suicide. But I am not against it. morally. I will not judge someone who committed suicide. I will not go around saying that person is a sissy for committing suicide. Also I think every individual has a right to his own life. If you wanna die then you should be allowed to. Living a wretched life is worse than dying an early death
Lurker Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I don't necessarily agree. I am ambivalent about keeping someone who is going thru enormous amount of suffering alive, just so that your conscience is clear. One of the true litmus test of love is also whether you can let go, when you know the other party in consideration stands nothing to gain from the relationship. Even otherwise, I am willing to subject myself thru a lifetime of guilt and pr!ckly conscience, if it means that I took a decision in the best interests of my loved ones. Its not an easy subject and hence no easy answers one way or the other. We can always debate on both sides, and even then honestly as we take one side (no euthnasia say), in our mind we can easily see why we are ourselves wrong. Its kind of weird to debate about this because I truly hope none of us have to ever cross that bridge. Let me ask you this though Sriram. Say you took that decision. And say after a certain time there is a medical solution to the issue. Would you have a lingering thought that you killed your loved one?
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 By the way folks, this is a beautiful example to understand the true meaning of those four variables - t,s,p,c - which define our life, our morals, our ethics, and our opinions. Suicide cannot be an absolute wrong and there is no point in having a punishment for it in an "andha kanoon" style. If Kasab tried to do suicide then that is WRONG. Make the bugger live and rot in a jail. If a guy shot by Kasab so badly that he lost his eyes, hands, legs, and feels it is better he kills himself and jumps on a grenade Kasab left behind then that ain't wrong. Edit - Criminalization of suicide, euthanasia is just religious jingoism and basically prevalent in Abrahamic faiths. Most Eastern philosophies and religions do not care so much about it. Maybe the reason for that is the belief in reincarnation - the belief that the soul can never die so it dunn really matter if you kill your body. Suicide, and Euthanasia are bigger things in the West because their religious beliefs are that they have only one "life". It is because of this that I found Lurker's first post rather perplexing - I mean Hinduism cares hoot about suicide and euthanasia so why Lurks said that it is a big thing in India is what puzzled me
akshayxyz Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Mariyam, in the same vein, when a person dies naturally does it not affect his loved one's lives? Man is a social animal I agree but the suicide'er does not want to be a social animal. Doesn't he wanna end his life because he does not want to be a social animal - failure in society, can't be a success in a social setting where his only standing is based on his success ++ IFFFF a person, does not want to be 'social' and wants to end his life, but society does not let him to - who is at fault, society or the person? Is there any way to decide which side is right? What good is a depressed soul to his loved ones? Why should he continue suffering just coz his loved ones can see him alive? ++ such a soul is better to let go, for society's good...can only be a case study - for science. What? You put a guy already in psychological pain in a jail as a response to his suicide attempt? Wrong analogy. And by the way I am not for helmet fines and insurance fines. I'll give you one valid reason why helmet fines are draconian and stupid. I am one of those people who sweat a lot thru the scalp and face the moment the sun beats down for a little while. For me wearing a helmet is more dangerous because it causes more harm than benefit. It increases my perspiration at least ten fold. A lot of the sweat blocks my eyes and if it goes inside my eyes the salt burns the eye. By making helmets compulsory you are causing an unwanted consequence. Although unrelated... wearing a helmet should be an individual's choice.. as it does not threaten others' existence and an individual has every right to be responsible for his own life (otherwise, non-criminality of suicide case also loses its ground).
Ram Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Its not an easy subject and hence no easy answers one way or the other. We can always debate on both sides, and even then honestly as we take one side (no euthnasia say), in our mind we can easily see why we are ourselves wrong. Its kind of weird to debate about this because I truly hope none of us have to ever cross that bridge. Let me ask you this though Sriram. Say you took that decision. And say after a certain time there is a medical solution to the issue. Would you have a lingering thought that you killed your loved one? Not at all, I am not the sort of guy who dwells on the past too much. I dont look back and think 'If only..'. I took the decision based on the best and comprehensive information that was available to me at that point in time. Yes, it will be unimaginably painful. Yes, the feeling of guilt will kill me every single day. But if it meant that i took the decision in the best interest of the other person, so be it.
Lurker Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Not at all, I am not the sort of guy who dwells on the past too much. I dont look back and think 'If only..'. I took the decision based on the best and comprehensive information that was available to me at that point in time. Yes, it will be unimaginably painful. Yes, the feeling of guilt will kill me every single day. But if it meant that i took the decision in the best interest of the other person, so be it. Now see thats where I would be hounded for the rest of my life. Yes I understand not dwelling on the past much but if your loved one is depending on you to make the right call, how can you make the wrong one and then not wish to go back in time?? A kid is a probably the best example. Would you make a wrong move and not wish you had done things differently? This is all conjencture of course. In reality I wouldnt wish anyone to be in that position to make that call either way.
Mariyam Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Mariyam' date=' in the same vein, when a person dies naturally does it not affect his loved one's lives?[/quote'] Depends on what your perspective is. Think of a suicide-er as a murderer, whose act is in accordance with the wishes of the victim, but not with those of his family/relatives/coworkers etc. As against an actual murderer, whose act is neither in accordance with the wishes of the victim nor those closely associated with the victim.
Tiger80 Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 You are kidding me. Although I ain't a Hindu but knowing enough of Hindu customs and traditions I don't think suicide is as big a blasphemous thing in Hinduism as it is in Abrahamic religions. :omg: Now Iam going to commit suicide after reading this
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 :omg: Now Iam going to commit suicide after reading thisYes, I ain't a Hindu neither do I believe in any other religion. On all sarkari forms in the place for "Religion" I write 'None". Do you follow a religion by birth or by choice?
Nova Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 @ Mariyam... I never said that suicide is an unselfish act. The religion angle for me personally is BS.. just my opinion.
Vijay.Sharma Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 @Mariyam, will respond to your post with serious responses tomorrow
Lurker Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Now Iam going to commit suicide after reading this :hysterical::hysterical: this thread needed this
Tiger80 Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Yes' date=' I ain't a Hindu neither do I believe in any other religion. On all sarkari forms in the place for "Religion" I write 'None". Do you follow a religion by birth or by choice?[/quote'] Well majority of people follow religion by birth,choice is word that is probably alien to 1 billion of population of India
Mariyam Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 @ Tdigi : Point noted :D @ Vijay.Sharma: What sarkari form gives you the option of 'none'???? You reside in India, don't you? AFAIK, apart from the options of the various religions, there exists an option 'others' where in you have to specify what religious group you belong to. You can write 'none' or 'sachinism' or '11th hour trollism' etc in that. But 'none' in itself is not an option.
Nova Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I am very undecided on Euthanasia. I have seen instances of some of my elderly relatives going thru a protracted period of pain and suffering in their last days. I understand that life is precious and must be protected at all costs' date=' but try telling that to someone who is suffering from multiple organ failure. If your mere existence is the sole reason for all your pain, should the person have the right to choose an immediate end?[/quote'] You Don't Know Jack I recommend you watch that movie. ...please do! It's based on the life and work of doctor-assisted suicide advocate Jack Kevorkian.
Desi Cartman Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 When you are depressed, you dont really care about religion. I can personally understand why someone who is depressed would want to kill himself. Mental illness can be treated but can not be cured always. A colleague's father committed suicide after suffering from mental illness for 10+ years, as a child he may never forgive him but he understands that his dad just couldnt take it anymore. I understand what his father must have gone through and trust me if you suffer from sleepless nights, sweaty palms, suicide thoughts , feel like crying every day for a decade, would you want to live on ? People dont realize that patients dont logically think about suicide most of the time, it just pops up in the head. Sometimes while driving, sometimes while trying to sleep the brain would throw ideas and scenarios. You cant escape it and not for 10 years
Mr Know All Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Anyone who attempts suicide needs counseling and not to be locked.up in jail. The person probably is suffering from depression and needs help. So yea, it should be decriminalized
Mr Know All Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Euthanasia is completely different. It is only in the cases like if person is in vegetative state and no hope of coming back.. If I am.not wrong our religion also permits euthanasia under some circumstances
ravishingravi Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Honestly, I find your comments :omg:. I won't comment on the moral/religious angle here, because I feel Lurker has done a fair job at that. The belief that your life is solely your own can and will be challenged. Man is a social being, and has obligations and duties to society as a whole. When he decides to take his own life, he also kills a part of other peoples' lives- his family, friends, co-workers etc. Does he have a right to adversely affect their lives without seeking their Where do you draw the line? Since we are not looking the the moral aspect, what contract do I have with "society". I might have contracts with individuals or instutions but I can't recall a clause ever reading that mortgagor cannot slit his throat till he outstanding amount is paid off. Besides, society is too wide a term. Although one can argue that it is implicit. But then you have to ask the question whether life or right to live was explicitly provided to me or merely thrust upon me with no option. As far as the family is concerned, purely from legal perspective, I can't see how that can be used as an argument for criminalisation of suicide, since I could very well be alive and a bum, and making their life a living hell and not be a criminal. The truth is law is a derivative perceived morality at some level and unfortunately most of life lies in this huge vacuum of moral ambiguity. On a general note, I have come to believe that laws and control can only go so far as far as individual's mind is concerned. Yes we need to protect a fellow being but the fact is where do we draw the line. I have somehow over the years come to conclusion that things should take place organically than be imposed. Yes some results can be cruel and sad, but that is the tree of life, it is nature. I believe any kind of legal constraint will only encourage a person to do it, since it is similar constraints elsewhere that might have propelled him to this extreme decision in the first place. Truth is nothing can be controlled. Yes there can be a delay but will the law take responsibility for prolonging the guy's misery. I think not.
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