Windows 8

[Prakat]

There's an old marketing adage, good marketing can bury a product if it doesn't live up to the promises. If Apple products didn't deliver on their 'hype' over stability, usability and performance then users would have discovered it. The product would have sunk faster than the titanic. On a Mac you don't even remember what it is to have a hung computer or an OS crash - it's not at all something you would associate with using a computer.

[ViruRulez]

I have been using Windows since 3.1.I guess that makes me the bigger expert huh? In other words, it has just come to speed with Apple's overhyped products..:giggle: OK ,First you are accusing Apple of paid reviews without any proof.Aand even if it is true,you think other companies don't do that ? I'll take a overpriced product if it is better.Theres a reason BMWs are more expensive than Toyotas. Thats because their products are "cool" So dont buy their products.Premium products seldom drop their prices. (e.g. BOSE) But stop calling them overhyped and stop with your baseless allegations and let people decide which product is better

All the replies are typical replies of a fanboy. Good going. :giggle: Premium products my ar$$. They are overhyped and overpriced products and I stand by it. And why do they not give freedom of choice of the hardware. Why are their OS always bundled with their products at kept at exorbitant when all other OS provide the option of choice between different hardware as per the customer's requirements. Why is there no freedom just to use their OS and not their overpriced hardware which are again from the same vendors such as intel etc. Not to mention that their OS is just derived from the Unix and it is not something really inventive. To say that they invented a purely original OS without any inspiration is pure BS. They just took the base codes from a free open source OS and after improving (of course massive improvements) are selling them forcibly bundled with hardware for an exorbitant price. They are just keeping their products overpriced to make massive margins and then again invest portion of that to increase further hype. I will never become a fanboy as Apple products just defy the logic of reasoning and economics. I would rather support Google, Linux and Windows products which are a lot more transparent.

There's an old marketing adage, good marketing can bury a product if it doesn't live up to the promises. If Apple products didn't deliver on their 'hype' over stability, usability and performance then users would have discovered it. The product would have sunk faster than the titanic. On a Mac you don't even remember what it is to have a hung computer or an OS crash - it's not at all something you would associate with using a computer.

Windows OS by itself hardly crashes but it is the loads of software which are compatible with the OS that crashes. And since Windows 7, I have hardly heard of either crashes or viruses. It has changed a lot since Windows 7. Even Windows Phone 7.5 has been said to be more stable than Android and in many cases iPhone. And it uses a lot lesser processor and memory compared to either Android or iPhone. And WP 8 would be even better and lighter as per reports. I agree that Windows has been a mixed bag in the past though it was still a lot more cost effective than Mac even then. Some Windows like XP and 98 were good for their time while some like Windows ME and Vista were disasters. But an OS like Windows 7 is a perfect PC OS and Windows 8 will be a perfect hand-held device OS. Even Windows 8 is far lighter than its predecessors and this shows that they are going the right way. And even in beta stage it is quite stable and I have used it for more than 6 months on one of my laptop. The only thing I miss is the traditional Start Menu otherwise it is a perfect OS again even for PCs.

[punjabi_khota]

Viru bhai you don't understand the whole point of Apple.The reason why Apple has such a stellar reputation for being stable and robust system is basically because they are so careful about what you can and cannot put into a apple machine. Very similar thinking went into them not supporting Flash on IPAD/IPhone, because they thought it wasn't stable enough for their taste. One of the main reasons why windows has traditionally lacked stability is because it supports so much hardware, third party software architecture etc.

[Yoda-esque]

All the replies are typical replies of a fanboy. Good going. :giggle: Premium products my ar$$. They are overhyped and overpriced products and I stand by it. And why do they not give freedom of choice of the hardware. Why are their OS always bundled with their products at kept at exorbitant when all other OS provide the option of choice between different hardware as per the customer's requirements. Why is there no freedom just to use their OS and not their overpriced hardware which are again from the same vendors such as intel etc. Not to mention that their OS is just derived from the Unix and it is not something really inventive. To say that they invented a purely original OS without any inspiration is pure BS. They just took the base codes from a free open source OS and after improving (of course massive improvements) are selling them forcibly bundled with hardware for an exorbitant price. They are just keeping their products overpriced to make massive margins and then again invest portion of that to increase further hype. I will never become a fanboy as Apple products just defy the logic of reasoning and economics. I would rather support Google, Linux and Windows products which are a lot more transparent. Windows OS by itself hardly crashes but it is the loads of software which are compatible with the OS that crashes. And since Windows 7, I have hardly heard of either crashes or viruses. It has changed a lot since Windows 7. Even Windows Phone 7.5 has been said to be more stable than Android and in many cases iPhone. And it uses a lot lesser processor and memory compared to either Android or iPhone. And WP 8 would be even better and lighter as per reports. I agree that Windows has been a mixed bag in the past though it was still a lot more cost effective than Mac even then. Some Windows like XP and 98 were good for their time while some like Windows ME and Vista were disasters. But an OS like Windows 7 is a perfect PC OS and Windows 8 will be a perfect hand-held device OS. Even Windows 8 is far lighter than its predecessors and this shows that they are going the right way. And even in beta stage it is quite stable and I have used it for more than 6 months on one of my laptop. The only thing I miss is the traditional Start Menu otherwise it is a perfect OS again even for PCs.

I never denied being a fan boy :dontknow: Now care to respond to those allegations you made and the "light years" comment instrad of getting personal?

[ViruRulez]

Viru bhai you don't understand the whole point of Apple.The reason why Apple has such a stellar reputation for being stable and robust system is basically because they are so careful about what you can and cannot put into a apple machine. Very similar thinking went into them not supporting Flash on IPAD/IPhone, because they thought it wasn't stable enough for their taste. One of the main reasons why windows has traditionally lacked stability is because it supports so much hardware, third party software architecture etc.

But then even in Windows if you do not install too much software and keep using limited software including only software from reputed brands then Windows does not crash or create any major problems. In that case, why not to purchase a much better processor with a lot higher RAM for a lower price, install Windows and enjoy it. Why to blame Windows on software someone else develops and is just made compatible. If a person installs Adobe Photoshop CS 5 on a 512MB RAM it would obviously crash. But that does not mean Windows is bad. The person installing it needs to have brains on the system requirements and what things a computer can handle. To be honest, at the price of Mac computers, a person can easily get a Core i7 with great system configurations made and it would hardly ever crash or create problems with even loads of software. BTW Windows 8 is also reducing reliance on Flash to a large extent and concentrating on HTML5. As I have said earlier, earlier versions of Windows had various problems but since Windows 7, it has become pretty flawless everywhere and is quite perfect. Having said that, it is wrong to say Mac are flawless. One of the most common problems with Mac laptops is even after the high costs, they do have problem of overheating in many cases. And Windows decreases the OS prices and so, does most hardware giants and computer manufacturers. On the other hand, Mac prices (infact all Apple prices) only increase with each version whereas electronics parts only become cheaper with time. And I would still say that freedom of choice in an OS is very important. There is no reason to believe that Apple products cannot be made compatible with other hardware. It is just a strategy to force the customers to overpay for using their OS and then again use the excessive profit margin in creating a hype and thereby selling more. Having said that, Windows has also recently started to make ways to gradually accommodate as per the RAM and hardware available. At least in case of Windows Phone 7.5 Tango which is definitely said to be lighter OS than either iOS or Android they are starting to restrict some high memory consuming apps for mobile phone with less than 256 MB RAM. Tango will be the most less resource consuming OS among all present mobile OSes and work smoother than any other mobile OS as per Microsoft. So, they are at least going in the right direction and making things lighter and faster without needing to increase price whereas Apple is going the other way round. Windows is going in the right direction in terms of stability, speed and security and will only improve in the coming years. And they are giving freedom of choice to consumers and keeping the prices a lot lesser than the overpriced Apple products.

[ViruRulez]

I never denied being a fan boy :dontknow: Now care to respond to those allegations you made and the "light years" comment instrad of getting personal?

I ain't getting personal dude. I am a Google, Linux and Microsoft supporter not because I am a fanboy but because I like their products. I ways saying light years ahead in terms of "economics/cost + features" combined. The price tags do not justify the product and it is just the hype created and the army of fanboys which work. And the denial of freedom of choice is something I do not like. I am not saying to make it free like Android but at least make it something like Windows where people can also use it with other hardware legally instead of being forced to purchase at inflated prices.

[Prakat]

@ViruRulez you main grouse seems to be the cost of apple products. I too earn my money and I've found that apple products are worth what you pay for them. For one, each and every physical part of the laptop is robust, sturdy and buit to last. Nothing has broken down, nothing has gone wrong and other non-paid apple users will say the same. Secondly, apple products have great resale value so whatever you pay you will find that after two years you get a good price on it. This is very unlike a windows product which fall by at least 50% inside of a year if you go to sell it.

[anotherhawkeye]

When did I express an opinion about the latest Windows versions? If Windows has really overtaken the Mac in stability and performance in the past three years then we would have heard it from a lot more credible sources than say' date=' with all respect, anotherhawkeye.[/quote'] Hey, you question my credibility? J/k. It was an anecdotal evidence, obviously. I was not claiming to have done a study, but because it happened to me and few others I know, *I* believe that Mac and PC are equally good. I'm too lazy or dont care enough to research for credible sources. I'm not a fanboi. I own a mix of apple and non apple products. I just call a spade as a spade, from my personal experience, instead of going with popular opinion.

[The Outsider]

Viru, there are ways to install OS X on a traditional PC. Of course, none of them are supported by Apple and you will invariably find that there is some piece of hardware on your PC for which there are no OS X drivers because so few go down this route. But technically it is possible to do it.

[Prakat]

Hey, you question my credibility? J/k. It was an anecdotal evidence, obviously. I was not claiming to have done a study, but because it happened to me and few others I know, *I* believe that Mac and PC are equally good. I'm too lazy or dont care enough to research for credible sources. I'm not a fanboi. I own a mix of apple and non apple products. I just call a spade as a spade, from my personal experience, instead of going with popular opinion.

fair enough :nice:

[ViruRulez]

@ViruRulez you main grouse seems to be the cost of apple products. I too earn my money and I've found that apple products are worth what you pay for them. For one, each and every physical part of the laptop is robust, sturdy and buit to last. Nothing has broken down, nothing has gone wrong and other non-paid apple users will say the same. Secondly, apple products have great resale value so whatever you pay you will find that after two years you get a good price on it. This is very unlike a windows product which fall by at least 50% inside of a year if you go to sell it.

Cost is one of the factors but not the only one. I hate the way in which Apple forces you to purchase their hardware to use their software which is against ethics of freedom. And the number of software available between the two OS are vastly different. Every software vendor has Windows compatibility but not everyone has Mac compatibility though the numbers have improved a bit in recent years. However, I find the logic of Macs being robust not a good reasoning. It depends on how much software you use as well as the system configuration. Take one of the high end Mac laptops. And then take a Core i7 2nd generation (infact Core i5 is enough) laptop with say 6 or 8 GB DDR3 RAM and install Windows 7 into it. The final cost as well as configurations of the Windows one would be far lesser and I can say that the second one would be perhaps even faster than the Mac and more sturdier. The resale price reasoning is ok but then again it is due to the hype. And it also depends on the number of fanboys. If you try to sell a used Mac in India, it would probably find a lot lesser interested buyers or price compared to US etc. So, that resale price logic is relative and is only valid where the hype is more.

Viru' date=' there are ways to install OS X on a traditional PC. Of course, none of them are supported by Apple and you will invariably find that there is some piece of hardware on your PC for which there are no OS X drivers because so few go down this route. But technically it is possible to do it.[/quote'] I know about Hackintosh and that is why I said "legally" allowed by Apple. Apple has never legally allowed or endorsed any other manufacturer to use the OS.

[Prakat]

@Viru I have to say, you are off the mark with the resale theory, check out how much old macs go for on ebay.in. Are they bought by regular pc users? No, because most of them haven't ever used or often haven't heard of a mac. So the resale price is kept high by mac-aware users, who are not buying OLD macs for the hype are they? As for your reservations about buying the whole package, it's the way it is because it's the best way to ensure a user experience that mac users have become used to. You can't buy a ferrari body and fit a volvo engine in a car, you can't buy a Bose body and install sony hardware in a home theater system. The mac is not just the OS, which is how Windows users will process the world. So I understand your problem with the mac. As for software, the mac was never meant to be all things for all people. It's isn't the VolksComputer. It has software which satisfies its core target audiences, which is the artist community. Photoshop is primarily coded for the Mac, for one. And it works perfectly fine for anyone else who doesn't use the computer for specialized applications - which I would say accounts for a majority of pc users. And in a world that is swiftly moving to cloud applications, netbooks and so on I see people's dependence on pcs diminishing and the viability of owning a mac growing.

[ViruRulez]

@Viru I have to say' date=' you are off the mark with the resale theory, [b']check out how much old macs go for on ebay.in. Are they bought by regular pc users? No, because most of them haven't ever used or often haven't heard of a mac. So the resale price is kept high by mac-aware users, who are not buying OLD macs for the hype are they? As for your reservations about buying the whole package, it's the way it is because it's the best way to ensure a user experience that mac users have become used to. You can't buy a ferrari body and fit a volvo engine in a car, you can't buy a Bose body and install sony hardware in a home theater system. The mac is not just the OS, which is how Windows users will process the world. So I understand your problem with the mac. As for software, the mac was never meant to be all things for all people. It's isn't the VolksComputer. It has software which satisfies its core target audiences, which is the artist community. Photoshop is primarily coded for the Mac, for one. And it works perfectly fine for anyone else who doesn't use the computer for specialized applications - which I would say accounts for a majority of pc users. And in a world that is swiftly moving to cloud applications, netbooks and so on I see people's dependence on pcs diminishing and the viability of owning a mac growing.

I could find only a single Mac on sale on Ebay India and that too a Mac Book and not a regular laptop. It is priced at Rs. 20,000.00 which is I suppose less than half the price though I agree that it looks like a crappy old version. Having said that, even the seller there mentions that he uses Windows and so, hardly used it a lot. I would somewhat agree that Mac is not for specialized applications and programs and so, not for everyone. To be honest, I do not even like Windows 8 compared to Windows 7 as it is more suitable for tablets and being touch friendly consumes more time for a computer user like who uses upto 10-12 hours or more on the laptop. Even a couple of seconds wasted on moving to the Start Screen to open an app is the only point of concern for me. However, I like the fact that the system requirements have been even reduced and it is a lighter OS compared to perhaps all other Windows OS in the last decade. I also like the Store and other features but that makes lesser difference to me compared to a tablet user. Some of the biggest critics of Windows 8 as well as some of the biggest supporters of Windows 8 are techies. So, it does make sense overall too. Having said that, even if Apple would make all sort of tricks I would doubt it would ever come close to Windows in terms of PC market share. And I am saying legal Windows and I suppose more than half of the people in developing countries probably use illegal Windows OS. Even if Windows 8 is a dud in PCs, I doubt Apple would benefit much. Instead, Linux might cut somewhat into the Windows market. In fact, I am seeing even a lot of techies gradually moving to Linux distros in recent times which is interesting. If Cloud becomes a big thing in the future, it would help other distros too. Windows 8 is already cloud based. Chrome OS is a small platform and a cheap one but it is even developed keeping in mind cloud platform. If Cloud becomes popular then it would help them too and so, their viability would definitely increase especially being less expensive operating systems.

[Prakat]

More power to linux flavours, but it still has the drawback of being a piecemeal offering in the windows mould. The chromebook comes close to an ideal offering for the developing world order in computing. remains to be seen how they go about it.

[Stuge]

Yesterday ,I was trying out consumer preview f it ,and I was pretty surprised that Microsoft wants this product for desktops .Metro UI is a big no for Desktops and Laptops .Its cumbersome and unproductive .Most of the time you're lost . Right now MS is planing to Launch Windows 8 in October .

[IKnowU]

Yesterday ,I was trying out consumer preview f it ,and I was pretty surprised that Microsoft wants this product for desktops .Metro UI is a big no for Desktops and Laptops .Its cumbersome and unproductive .Most of the time you're lost . .

Come on.......the whole point of it is to make everything more accessible easily and efficient. It clearly does, yes you will get lost initially......but imo it is much more productive and effcient(hardware and software) wise

[Stuge]

Come on.......the whole point of it is to make everything more accessible easily and efficient. It clearly does' date=' yes you will get lost initially......but imo it is much more productive and effcient(hardware and software) wise[/quote'] I'm not alone who didn't liked it .I will try it out for another week before removing it from the hard disk .

[b555]

Just installed the Release Preview doesnt seem that bad to me anyone else installed?

[panesarv]

Yeah, I did and I loved it :)

[SLICKR392]

Is a fresh install necessary?