Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 In ODIs 83 WC B&H 2003 Runners up SRT wasnt around in the first 2 but you know what he did in the 3rd. My rankings too. You do realize that the in the first 2 we were champions, in the last one we were not. Is that Sachin's fault? No. Does that go against him? Yes he does. He did not lead(not as in being a captain) India towards something that other Indians had already achieved. 2001 Test Series vs Aus (SRT was the second highest wkt taker and run scorer in that series ) 1998 Test Series vs Aus (SRT was the man of Series in this enough said) 2003 BG Series (Made significant contributions in the Adelaide Test + was Man of the match in the crucial final test) I think you are taking only modern games here else I fail to see why Wadekar's win in West Indies/England or Kapil's win in 1986 doesnt feature there. My ranking would be 2001 series. 1971 series win in West Indies/England 1986 win in England. Back to your rankings now. 2001 series Sachin was at best a decent contributor. The series was won on back of VVS, RD and Harbhajan. I hope we can agree on that. 1998 series vs Australia is a good win but I can not see why I would rate it ahead of Wadekar or Kapil's win overseas. 2003 BG series was a draw at best. The only redeeming feature was that we played Australia in Australia. But again I fail to see why it would be rated ahead if Wadekar or Kapil's win. xxx
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 I didn't wanna bore you with this long post' date=' I am man of short words and I rarely get into quote fest, I understand your viewpoint. This thread started of with Kapils comments who is another great and its inappropriate to insult either to prove a point[/quote'] Not boring at all Rajeev. If anything a welcome change from too much of stats and cross-questioning that has transpired in this thread. Sachin is one of India's all time greats and his record speaks for himself. Plus like you mentioned many people started watching cricket solely because of him. I have no problems with that at all. I myself have been a fan. xx
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Why you guys picking like few test matches and ODIs If cricketers start thinking like that then why play side tours then? You walk in every walk to win it
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 ^^ we lost that innocence long back Rajeev. Today cricket is a profession. Where millions are spent and millions made. Where a fan has to shell out 50$ to catch a match online. Its a case of paisa phenko tamasha dekho. The players can not expect to be paid for their services and then perform as amateurs.
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Not boring at all Rajeev. If anything a welcome change from too much of stats and cross-questioning that has transpired in this thread. Sachin is one of India's all time greats and his record speaks for himself. Plus like you mentioned many people started watching cricket solely because of him. I have no problems with that at all. I myself have been a fan. xx ..adding to that, when he is not in his superlative form; it kinda becomes 2nd nature to defend him vigorously in times like these Too bad for us, the net wasn't so widespread back then :shades_smile:
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 ^^ we lost that innocence long back Rajeev. Today cricket is a profession. Where millions are spent and millions made. Where a fan has to shell out 50$ to catch a match online. Its a case of paisa phenko tamasha dekho. The players can not expect to be paid for their services and then perform as amateurs. ..with a spin like that, I can't argue but after all its not a 9-5 job, it started as a sport and will remaina sport Who made it a profession? we did; the fans So we are seeing the result
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 ..adding to that, when he is not in his superlative form; it kinda becomes 2nd nature to defend him vigorously in times like these Too bad for us, the net wasn't so widespread back then :shades_smile: Indeed. The saving glory was that such moments(of defending him) were absolutely rare since there was hardly a more imposing sight in 90s. See thats where we can all agree and go home - Sachin in 90s was the king. It is his latter performance everyone cringes about. xx
Cricketics Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 those who are defending sachin.... as u are bringing instances when srt helped India win.. here is another for u ppl to add http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1998-99/OD_TOURNEYS/WIC/SCORECARDS/AUS_IND_WIC_ODI-QF3_28OCT1998.html
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 It is Sachins fault that the bowlers presented him with a measly 359 to win .... while he pretty much took us single handedly into the finals by the scruff of the neck ... pffft You do realize that the same Sachin had led India to chase 273 in 45 overs against Pakistan. Even if Indian scored at the same rate we would have went past 300 easy. So it is not as impossible as you are trying to sound. And how does it change the fact that in the end we did NOT win. There are no 2nd places in World Cup. No one else has drawn against AUS in Aus and retained the Trophy .... Gangs did receive the BG trophy at SCG didnt he ? And of the 7 tests that India won against Aus since the mid 90s SRT had a huge part to play in atleast 3 of them.India retained the trophy because we had won it last time. And that did not exactly come on the back of Sachin. And even in the series you mention we should have actually won it. If India had actually won, hypotheically speaking, the performance of Sachin would in no way be bigger than say Dravid, VVS, Sehwag or Kumble in that series. xxx
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 ..with a spin like that, I can't argue but after all its not a 9-5 job, it started as a sport and will remaina sport Who made it a profession? we did; the fans So we are seeing the result Actually no. It was made a profession by media Administrator and players themselves. You would be surprised to hear that I am all for playing for the love of the game, but the moment you take it as a profession then you better be accountable for it. That doesnt mean I will burn your house if you lose but that I would expect you to win a good amount of games you play. Win more than you lose. Just like any other job. xxx
Lurker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Alright guys I shall call it quits for now. Will check this tomorrow. Good night from my side. :regular_smile:
Rajiv Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 those who are defending sachin.... as u are bringing instances when srt helped India win.. here is another for u ppl to add http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1998-99/OD_TOURNEYS/WIC/SCORECARDS/AUS_IND_WIC_ODI-QF3_28OCT1998.html ..thats the game where they showed that AD Sachin A la re, oh man those days
King Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Tendulkar of old used to take on the opponent and take the game away with his emphatic stature. Similarly Kapil Dev used to do that in his prime. Kapil Dev lost fair bit of his match winning ability towards the end of his career particularly post 1990. Kapil Dev won a lot of matches during the 90s though. The world cup 83, the test series in Australia and England, the World Series 1995 coming against the fantastic Richard Hadlee he turned the game upside down. Richard Hadlee was well and truly put to sword in the all important semi finals of the 1985 B&H World series cup. The hundred Kapil Dev scored in the tied test match against Australia, several top class quick fire 40s or 50s in the 90s in the ODIs saw Kapil Dev at the top of the world. Tendulkar's stuff against Australia in the 1997-98 is a folklore already. Although Navjot Sidhu dented fair bit of Warnie's confidence Tendulkar utterly and completely dominated the Aussies in the 1998 series followed by the Sharjah ODIs. Tendulkar at the big stage i.e the world cup has always done well barring the 2007 one. I guess what this indicates is both were match winners in their own right but Kapil Dev had more chances as he was an all rounder. If he couldn't get runs, he could chip in with wickets. After having deliberated and thought about this statement, it is a bit sad to see Kapil Dev having a go at Tendulkar though. I don't see much purpose in that statement. Sachin can turn around and also say Kapil Dev didn't really play to perform well but only to reach a mile stone in the last 2-3 years of his career. BTW this is not the first time a past legend has questioned Tendulkar's credibility. Gavaskar did too sometime in 2001 when India failed to win the test series against Zimbabwe in 2001. Tendulkar failed despite being in good touch then and Gavaskar was not happy with that.
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