rkt.india Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Edwards- 51 tests, 154 wickets~ 3 wickets a test Rampaul- 13 tests, 35 wickets~ 3 wickets a test Roach- 14 tests, 43 wickets~ 3 wickets a test Taylor- 29 tests, 82 wickets~ 3 wickets a test We can keep talking of XYZ factors, but Sammy is as effective as others and isn't really blocking anyone's spot. Had our 3rd seamer Ishant been taking 3 wickets a test at a similar average and strike rate as Sammy in SA, Eng and Australia minus the XYZ factor, the story of those series could have been different :(( Bowlers can have poor series. Ishant too had bad time. He was taking around 4 wickets per test before England series and I am not saying Ishant is a wonder. Ishant is poor and Sammy is as poor even more poor.. While It can be said that Ishant is still fine for an Indian team, as we still do not have better bowler than Ishant, but same cannot be said about WI with rich history of fast bowling and please dont bring stats of Sammy and other WI bowlers. Sammy is ordinary and will always be. Others still have chance to improve, but Sammy will stay the same forever.
saneindian Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Bowlers can have poor series. Ishant too had bad time. He was taking around 4 wickets per test before England series and I am not saying Ishant is a wonder. Ishant is poor and Sammy is as poor even more poor.. While It can be said that Ishant is still fine for an Indian team' date=' as we still do not have better bowler than Ishant, but same cannot be said about WI with rich history of fast bowling and [b']please dont bring stats of Sammy and other WI bowlers. Sammy is ordinary and will always be. Others still have chance to improve, but Sammy will stay the same forever. Thats your impression. They have proved to be no better than Sammy so far whenever they have played. At least with Sammy, WI are fighting other teams and getting closer to wins. Was never happening with the other so called talented pacers. As for the bolded part, is it a crime to talk of stats of different bowlers? Sammy has a better bowling avg and a comparable strike rate to all others in that list. Just because he doesn't hurl it at 150 kmph (which is what your biggest grouse is), doesn't make him an ordinary bowler. If he is ordinary, all those with XYZ MNOP factors in your list are equally ordinary. And you are wrong about Ishant. At no stage of his career, was he taking more than 3 wickets a test except for a brief period in WI because of that 22 wicket series there.
jairamesh Posted April 1, 2012 Author Posted April 1, 2012 Thats your impression. They have proved to be no better than Sammy so far whenever they have played. At least with Sammy, WI are fighting other teams and getting closer to wins. Was never happening with the other so called talented pacers. As for the bolded part, is it a crime to talk of stats of different bowlers? Sammy has a better bowling avg and a comparable strike rate to all others in that list. Just because he doesn't hurl it at 150 kmph (which is what your biggest grouse is), doesn't make him an ordinary bowler. If he is ordinary, all those with XYZ MNOP factors in your list are equally ordinary. And you are wrong about Ishant. At no stage of his career, was he taking more than 3 wickets a test except for a brief period in WI because of that 22 wicket series there. Sammy is as ordinary as them come, look at his record closely, nearly 50% of his Test wickets have come against the two weakest batting line-ups, Bangladesh and Pakistan. His combined averages against the top batting sides is rather embarrassing.
rkt.india Posted April 1, 2012 Posted April 1, 2012 Thats your impression. They have proved to be no better than Sammy so far whenever they have played. At least with Sammy, WI are fighting other teams and getting closer to wins. Was never happening with the other so called talented pacers. As for the bolded part, is it a crime to talk of stats of different bowlers? Sammy has a better bowling avg and a comparable strike rate to all others in that list. Just because he doesn't hurl it at 150 kmph (which is what your biggest grouse is), doesn't make him an ordinary bowler. If he is ordinary, all those with XYZ MNOP factors in your list are equally ordinary. And you are wrong about Ishant. At no stage of his career, was he taking more than 3 wickets a test except for a brief period in WI because of that 22 wicket series there. Your post does not change anything regarding what Sammy is as an individual player for most West Indian experts and former players. If others have not outperformed him by a distance, it does not mean he is a performer. A guy who does not take 3 wickets per test will never be a performer. Yes he is a good enthusiastic captain and that is why he is in the team. I wont question his place if he bats at 6 and contribute with the bat and let another specialist fast bowler like Roach or Taylor play along side Edwards and Rampaul. Regarding Ishant, he is an under performer and even Kapil Dev has taken 3.3 wickets per test in his career. For an Indian fast bowler 3 wickets per test is an achievement in itself. After all how many of our pacers has taken more than 3 wickets per test. Srinath 3.5 per test, Zak 3.4 per test. So Ishant is no let down if we consider these were our legends and inspiration for youngster. While WI had Walsh, Ambrose, Bishop just last decade, so seeing a bowler like Sammy opening the bowling in tests in itself is embarrassing for West Indians when they have other better bowlers warming the bench.
Ultimate_Game Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Edwards- 51 tests, 154 wickets~ 3 wickets a test Rampaul- 13 tests, 35 wickets~ 3 wickets a test Roach- 14 tests, 43 wickets~ 3 wickets a test Taylor- 29 tests, 82 wickets~ 3 wickets a test We can keep talking of XYZ factors, but Sammy is as effective as others and isn't really blocking anyone's spot. Had our 3rd seamer Ishant been taking 3 wickets a test at a similar average and strike rate as Sammy in SA, Eng and Australia minus the XYZ factor, the story of those series could have been different :(( Well said! Just because Sammy is a medium pacer shouldn't detract from his decent record.
thongale Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I'll have him as SL's third seamer any day TBH. The real problem in WI lineup in Dwayne Bravo. Has been **** with both bat and ball for some time. I say drop him and bring a decent batsman in.
Cricket Tragic Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I'll have him as SL's third seamer any day TBH. The real problem in WI lineup in Dwayne Bravo. Has been **** with both bat and ball for some time. I say drop him and bring a decent batsman in. Third seamer? More like your first. :giggle:
rkt.india Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Third seamer? More like your first. :giggle: :haha:
saneindian Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I'll have him as SL's third seamer any day TBH. The real problem in WI lineup in Dwayne Bravo. Has been **** with both bat and ball for some time. I say drop him and bring a decent batsman in. He doesn't play tests. In ODIs he has been decent.
audioman Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 But more than anything, his attitude is very important in WI cricket especially given wasters like Chris Gayle who despite their talent are more interested in making millions from circus T20 leagues rather than give it their best for the West Indian team. That is quite frivolous I think. Just put yourself in Gayle's shoes - less than half the workload and get paid more. Who would not jump immediately at that opportunity? This playing for country thing is over-rated, if you ask me. It might be a great thing to do in India or Australia, because cricketers are well taken care of there. In Aus, they are, and in India, the side income from ads etc is good too. But when you hear about past WI cricketers living on the streets in the caribbean or NY, you cannot fault the likes of Gayle much. Indian cricketers will never have to face this, given that there are no "clashes" for them during IPL. But you can see how the good bowlers and batsmen even from India get enamored by the IPL, keeping themselves fit only for that tournament etc. You could well be a saint and say "No, thank you", but I am sure the vast majority of the world would do exactly what Gayle is doing. Its a sad loss for WI, yes, but you just cannot fault Gayle much I reckon. Back to the thread topic, my only problem with Sammy is - he is not a leader. For all his thoughtfulness/resourcefulness as captain, the man keeps hiding from good batsmen all the time. Not a leader that leads from the front. Whenever a batsman is going strong, you never see Sammy bowl (as is evidenced by his non-existence during the PP overs or the death overs in an ODI). But as soon as a wicket is down, you see Sammy come on and get some overs through, only to hide again later on. The fact that he plays mainly as a bowler, but ends up bowling even less than Dwayne Bravo is atrocious I think.
jairamesh Posted April 4, 2012 Author Posted April 4, 2012 So Ravi Rampaul, Kemar Roach, and Fidel Edwards all in the squad. Sadly one of them will miss out to make way for Sammy's harmless daisy cutters.
Late Cut Posted April 5, 2012 Posted April 5, 2012 Funny how some of you keep posting the same nebulous arguments to argue Sammy ' s factual effectiveness. I dub thee the shoaib akthar fan club.
saneindian Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Once again Sammy doing the job for WI. Scored a quickfire 41 yesterday and now has now broken a dangerous looking opening partnership after his opening bowlers sprayed the new ball everywhere.
msb1991 Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Once again Sammy doing the job for WI. Scored a quickfire 41 yesterday and now has now broken a dangerous looking opening partnership after his opening bowlers sprayed the new ball everywhere. Darren Sammy is great. He shows the idiocy of people blinded by speed.
Old guy Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 Darren Sammy is great. He shows the idiocy of people blinded by speed. its all about replacemant for me if ther is some good one sitting on bench then drop this guy but he is is doing pretty good job on his own and not giving many runs.. (unlike our tundlers) then there is his batting and captaincy ualso have to consider this is not a good team.. i think even aksing this question right now is stupid :P
Crookbond Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I was just going to bump this thread. In this innings, he looks like he's making me eat my words.
Late Cut Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 I was just going to bump this thread. In this innings' date=' he looks like he's making me eat my words. [/quote'] Where is RKT, our resident "shoaib Akthar" super fast only works, at?:hysterical:
cameron_black Posted April 9, 2012 Posted April 9, 2012 lol look at his test bowling figures. can get into any subcontinent team with those.
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