bajrang Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 but the per-requisite to fast bowling is line & length. vekatesh prasad is it you ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 uy -150k ' date='va-147k[/quote'] thanks. :nice: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 the pre-requisite to fast bowling is line & length. The pre-requisite to fast bowling is not line and length. The pre-requisite to fast bowling is --- the ability and willingness to bowl fast. After a bowler who can and will bowl fast is found then he should be made to practice bowling a good line and length without sacrificing speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 The pre-requisite to fast bowling is not line and length. The pre-requisite to fast bowling is --- the ability and willingness to bowl fast. After a bowler who can and will bowl fast is found then he should be made to practice bowling a good line and length without sacrificing speed. :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I think Yadav has bowled very well this season apart from a game or two. I will take his economy rate of 7.5 any day if he does that in T20 WC and has taken wickets as well. I think he has improved a lot since the last 2 IPLs. I think he has not been thrashed like Lee was thrashed yesterday and Steyn is thrashed several times. He is an aggressive bowler and these pitches are graveyard for fast bowlers. He defended 11 runs in last over against RR against much better batsmen beating batsmen for pace, while against same RR against inferior batsman in Dishant Yagnik, Steyn could not do that, now it wont make Steyn a bad bowler, but this is the nature of T20. Morkel was thrashed for 50 runs against PWi while Yadav was their best pacer in that match. He is an aggressive bowler and that is why he bowls short and he gets wickets as well with his short deliveries, but I would like him to bowl more yorkers like he was trying to do yesterday. His fuller length balls have not been easy to hit, but then he cant be predictable in line and length. It is T20, he will be thrashed if predictable that is why he needs to vary his lengths. Moreover, they both are just starting out and are improving as they are playing more. No one is saying they are greats, but they are two promising pace bowlers, not more than that yet and that is why people need to be patient before criticizing them or writing them off. Regarding Sami, Sami has a very good ODI record. He was flop in tests, but not in ODIs. Yadav will be opposite. I beg to differ that Umesh has bowled well in this IPL. He is an aggressive express bowler and I have no problem with him bowling short, if they are quick bouncing deliveries. In limited overs matches, however, giving width consistently, on both sides of the wicket, is not the correct approach and Umesh has done exactly that. The fact that he has still succeeded reasonably just proves how lethal 145k to 151k pace can be and we should look for more such bowlers. Now. I have no problem with a rookie quick straying in line in an attempt to bowl quick. I would rather have an inaccurate quick wicket-taking pacer like UY than a medium pacer like VK, PK or Munaf. But it is Umesh's approach to bowling that worries me a bit. He gives the impression that he is bowling some random deliveries without any botheration as to where he should bowl ---- rather than erring in line in an attempt to bowl fast as is the case with VA, MM etc. I hope he rectifies this aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 @UG But all aussies were bowling 140plus, so pace does work. Do you think if they had bowled at 125-130k, they would have had such menacing impact. I am sure not. I agree with you consistency is the key to success, but consistency at pace is what makes a bowler dangerous because not everyone can be Mcgrath and Mcgrath too was fast medium in 90s. Fast bowlers are bound to be inconsistent, but I would take an inconsistent genuine quick but strike bowler over so called consistent bowler because we dont have any, all we have are pretenders like Munaf, VK, PK etc. Who neither have pace nor consistency. What's beginning to worry me regarding Umesh is that he bowls the same random stuff day in day out. He reminds of that famous quote by Warne about Monty Panesar "it looks like Monty has played the 1st Test 32 times rather than him playing 32 Tests". Umesh bowls half trackers outside off at least 2-3 times every over and at his pace and the width he offers those are boundary balls. It's not as if he bowls genuine bouncers aimed at batsman's throat. He bowls nothing stuff which he follows up with going down the leg. Then he has to force in a slower ball no matter whether the situation demands it or not. So many times you see him gift a boundary off a slower ball when the batsman is in trouble with regular deliveries just because he has some sort of a script in his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 What's beginning to worry me regarding Umesh is that he bowls the same random stuff day in day out. He reminds of that famous quote by Warne about Monty Panesar "it looks like Monty has played the 1st Test 32 times rather than him playing 32 Tests". Umesh bowls half trackers outside off at least 2-3 times every over and at his pace and the width he offers those are boundary balls. It's not as if he bowls genuine bouncers aimed at batsman's throat. He bowls nothing stuff which he follows up with going down the leg. Then he has to force in a slower ball no matter whether the situation demands it or not. So many times you see him gift a boundary off a slower ball when the batsman is in trouble with regular deliveries just because he has some sort of a script in his head. totally agree and this is the reaosn i want him to play just test matches and concentrate on one thing pitch it full and try to swing it at pace its the simplest thing in world and onceh e does that he can experiment all he want right now there is no plan and tbh in t20 young bowlers would always have this problem actually good thing abt him is there might be bad bals but there are some pure wicket balls too even in these 4 overs spell aaron is more suited to this format he can bowl those yorkers and has good thinking mind the way he fooled hussey with slower one and then carriedo n with yorkers was good to see! btw umesh isnt like ishant or monty he has learnt a lot saw his progress in australian series too he is learning all right but he at moment has too many balls and he is experimenting a lot hes jsut not sticking to one plan... tbh this type of problem is very normal with foreign pacers too have u seen de lange bowl ? :winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 totally agree and this is the reaosn i want him to play just test matches and concentrate on one thing pitch it full and try to swing it at pace its the simplest thing in world and onceh e does that he can experiment all he want right now there is no plan and tbh in t20 young bowlers would always have this problem actually good thing abt him is there might be bad bals but there are some pure wicket balls too even in these 4 overs spell aaron is more suited to this format he can bowl those yorkers and has good thinking mind the way he fooled hussey with slower one and then carriedo n with yorkers was good to see! btw umesh isnt like ishant or monty he has learnt a lot saw his progress in australian series too he is learning all right but he at moment has too many balls and he is experimenting a lot hes jsut not sticking to one plan... tbh this type of problem is very normal with foreign pacers too have u seen de lange bowl ? :winky: If Umesh can pitch it up on or around off at pace he would be a threat in every format - Tests, odis and T20s. The problem is that he still hasn't learnt the most important lesson from Australia series, i.e. to get wkts you got to pitch the ball up. As a fast bowler you get wkts by pitching the ball up and not by bowling short or giving width. If he simply pitches the ball up in every format at high 140s or in 150s he would be one of the most successful bowlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 If Umesh can pitch it up on or around off at pace he would be a threat in every format - Tests' date=' odis and T20s. The problem is that he still hasn't learnt the most important lesson from Australia series, i.e. to get wkts you got to pitch the ball up. As a fast bowler you get wkts by pitching the ball up and not by bowling short or giving width. If he simply pitches the ball up in every format at high 140s or in 150s he would be one of the most successful bowlers.[/quote'] actually on these tracks in t20 unless ur dale steyn its pretty hard thing to do its much easier in tests with better fields for it and more help from track anyway thts hwt i think imo he is justn ot suited for this format its not his thing he looks clueless here but in tests he was showing signs or working people out and trying to bowl full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 actually on these tracks in t20 unless ur dale steyn its pretty hard thing to do its much easier in tests with better fields for it and more help from track anyway thts hwt i think imo he is justn ot suited for this format its not his thing he looks clueless here but in tests he was showing signs or working people out and trying to bowl full Even on a patta it's better to bowl a fuller than than bowling short. This especially holds true for sub-continental tracks where the ball simply sits up to be dispatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I beg to differ that Umesh has bowled well in this IPL. He is an aggressive express bowler and I have no problem with him bowling short, if they are quick bouncing deliveries. In limited overs matches, however, giving width consistently, on both sides of the wicket, is not the correct approach and Umesh has done exactly that. The fact that he has still succeeded reasonably just proves how lethal 145k to 151k pace can be and we should look for more such bowlers. Now. I have no problem with a rookie quick straying in line in an attempt to bowl quick. I would rather have an inaccurate quick wicket-taking pacer like UY than a medium pacer like VK, PK or Munaf. But it is Umesh's approach to bowling that worries me a bit. He gives the impression that he is bowling some random deliveries without any botheration as to where he should bowl ---- rather than erring in line in an attempt to bowl fast as is the case with VA, MM etc. I hope he rectifies this aspect. An aggressive bowler is bound to be inconsistent. Only if he bowls day in and day out in same way, only then he will start achieving bit of control and accuracy in his bowling. It is all about methodical practice, but the thing I want for him to bowl fuller length rather than short. Short balls have less probability to take wickets rather, batsmen can use his pace on short balls, while fuller length gives more wickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If Umesh can pitch it up on or around off at pace he would be a threat in every format - Tests' date=' odis and T20s. The problem is that he still hasn't learnt the most important lesson from Australia series, i.e. to get wkts you got to pitch the ball up. As a fast bowler you get wkts by pitching the ball up and not by bowling short or giving width. If he simply pitches the ball up in every format at high 140s or in 150s he would be one of the most successful bowlers.[/quote'] That is what I say in every thread about Umesh. He tries to rattle the batsmen with short balls, but his short balls are not well directed every time and short balls don't yield in wickets. It is the fuller length with gives you wicket. Once he understands that, he will be more lethal that what he has been till now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Even on a patta it's better to bowl a fuller than than bowling short. This especially holds true for sub-continental tracks where the ball simply sits up to be dispatched. i agree but its all about bowler's mind set steyn always bowls full and thts why he is the best bowler around all our bowlers have this problem of bowling short do u remember ishant ? :cantstop: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 That is what I say in every thread about Umesh. He tries to rattle the batsmen with short balls' date=' but his short balls are not well directed every time and short balls don't yield in wickets. It is the fuller length with gives you wicket. Once he understands that, he will be more lethal that what he has been till now.[/quote'] This is exactly what worries me. Umesh saw at first hand how effective pitched up stuff can be seeing how Aussies strangled India in Aus last year. He himself must have seen how most of his wkts came from full-pitched deliveries. And even after all this evidence and first hand experience he still tries to rattle batsmen by bowling short or trying to ball slow balls when they are not even needed, it should be a worrying sign for his coaches. Hell, a one hour session with any competent coach should be able to point it out so why is he still doing the same stuff for nearly a year now :dontknow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 i agree but its all about bowler's mind set steyn always bowls full and thts why he is the best bowler around all our bowlers have this problem of bowling short do u remember ishant ? :cantstop: I can't figure out why it's taken forever for our coaches to drill into our bowlers that they need to bowl full, especially Ishant and Umesh :banghead: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 What's beginning to worry me regarding Umesh is that he bowls the same random stuff day in day out. He reminds of that famous quote by Warne about Monty Panesar "it looks like Monty has played the 1st Test 32 times rather than him playing 32 Tests". Umesh bowls half trackers outside off at least 2-3 times every over and at his pace and the width he offers those are boundary balls. It's not as if he bowls genuine bouncers aimed at batsman's throat. He bowls nothing stuff which he follows up with going down the leg. Then he has to force in a slower ball no matter whether the situation demands it or not. So many times you see him gift a boundary off a slower ball when the batsman is in trouble with regular deliveries just because he has some sort of a script in his head. This part is sad but very true. His approach needs to change and he should stop bowling random deliveries. If he tries bowling 4 or 5 deliveries at or around the off-stump and at a good length ... then strays in accuracy sometimes in an attempt to bowl quick ... because he is inexperienced .... I am more than ok with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonfly Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 I can't figure out why it's taken forever for our coaches to drill into our bowlers that they need to bowl full' date=' especially Ishant and Umesh :banghead:[/quote'] Ramesh Powar bowls full. A full stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 This is exactly what worries me. Umesh saw at first hand how effective pitched up stuff can be seeing how Aussies strangled India in Aus last year. He himself must have seen how most of his wkts came from full-pitched deliveries. And even after all this evidence and first hand experience he still tries to rattle batsmen by bowling short or trying to ball slow balls when they are not even needed' date=' it should be a worrying sign for his coaches. Hell, a one hour session with any competent coach should be able to point it out so why is he still doing the same stuff for nearly a year now :dontknow:[/quote'] Even in Australia at Perth, he got most of his wickets by bowling fuller lengths and still I see him bowling short most of the times. This is not just with Umesh. Most Indian bowlers who posses decent pace tries to bowl short to rattle batsmen. They need to understand short balls are to surprise the batsmen and keep them honest, but if you keep bowling short it becomes predictable and is of no use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate_Game Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Even in Australia at Perth' date=' he got most of his wickets by bowling fuller lengths and still I see him bowling short most of the times. This is not just with Umesh. Most Indian bowlers who posses decent pace tries to bowl short to rattle batsmen. They need to understand short balls are to surprise the batsmen and keep them honest, but if you keep bowling short it becomes predictable and is of no use.[/quote'] We are on the same page and it's so frustrating to see the likes of Ishant and Umesh under-perform time and again by bowling short. Ishant is already termed "unlucky" and I sincerely hope Umesh doesn't go the same way. The next WC is in Aus and if Ishant & Umesh get their act together and finally figure the line & length to bowl to (full pitched on or around off) Indian attack consisting of Umesh, Ishant & Aaron would be one of the best around and would put India in contention, else it's gonna be an early exit for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
express bowling Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Even in Australia at Perth' date=' he got most of his wickets by bowling fuller lengths and still I see him bowling short most of the times. This is not just with Umesh. Most Indian bowlers who posses decent pace tries to bowl short to rattle batsmen. They need to understand short balls are to surprise the batsmen and keep them honest, but if you keep bowling short it becomes predictable and is of no use.[/quote'] Also, short balls need to be extra-effort balls ,have steep bounce and should be well directed. Indian pacers don't like hitting the deck hard and often end up with a stomach high half-trackers. Many successful pacers often bowl a short-of-good-length kicking up effort ball as opposed to a real short ball to effectively use their pace and bounce. i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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