England vs South Africa 2012

[Ultimate_Game]

I think Tennis has different makers as well like Prince/Wilson/Babolat and every GS has it's own brand of balls being used. For example' date= Wimbledon uses the slazenger balls while FO has Wilson. all these balls respond differently to surfaces. It may or may not be as massive in differences as in Cricket but it surely does play a little bit of role. I have played a bit of Tennis and you can feel the difference. Moreso, this non-uniformity is what makes Cricket such a difficult game. This is where the adjustment part comes in and that's what separates the men from the boys.

The same is true in footie as well as a "jubbiliani" acts a little differently from say an "Adidas" ball but the key is that difference, as you rightly pointed out, is minimal in Tennis and footie. However, in cricket it is not so. I am all for having different manufacturers in cicket but at least the ball has to be standardized to reduce the gap between the behavior of balls. The difference will always be there but not to the ridiculous extent it is now.

[Ultimate_Game]

true but dont you tink' date=' the ball variety adds to the complexity of the game, for me its fun to see big team fall flat on their face at times, then learn over 2 years and counter then retire then fail. Its fun to see these cycles of accent and descent.[/quote'] The spectators deserve to see a game where teams are on even keel as far as cricketing equipment go. You already have pitches which add to complexity to the game and give home teams enough advantage. That advantage shouldn't go any further. Look at what Eng did when India was there - they used the balls from 2010 after they saw the 2011 vintage didn't swing as much against the Loins. That way it's not a test of skill but a cheap way to win at all costs.

[Vilander]

The spectators deserve to see a game where teams are on even keel as far as cricketing equipment go. You already have pitches which add to complexity to the game and give home teams enough advantage. That advantage shouldn't go any further. Look at what Eng did when India was there - they used the balls from 2010 after they saw the 2011 vintage didn't swing as much against the Loins. That way it's not a test of skill but a cheap way to win at all costs.

hmm your argument has some validity, but i wonder if the decadal swings of teams fortunes will be cut short if we standardise balls.

[vamos_rafa]

The spectators deserve to see a game where teams are on even keel as far as cricketing equipment go. You already have pitches which add to complexity to the game and give home teams enough advantage. That advantage shouldn't go any further. Look at what Eng did when India was there - they used the balls from 2010 after they saw the 2011 vintage didn't swing as much against the Loins. That way it's not a test of skill but a cheap way to win at all costs.

You are right to an extent. But, if you really see, the past decade did not have the home factor as much as it used to be. India won atleast 1 test match in all countries and many countries like SA, Oz have managed to play really competitive cricket in the SC. The example you pointed out is right where in it does become a cheap trick to win, but is that really is the case, then instead of keeping it as a suspense, the touring team should also be given the same exact set of conditions to practice. What I find baffling is, at times, teams go abroad in some random order and practice as per the prior experiences of coaches etc. Instead, keep everything intact and instead give the touring team the same set of conditions, atleast in terms of balls being used.

[Ultimate_Game]

hmm your argument has some validity' date=' but i wonder [b']if the decadal swings of teams fortunes will be cut short if we standardise balls.

Don't think so. Cricket already provides enough challenges and varying conditions as it is. Standardising the ball will not make it easy for batsmen to adjust to say an overcast day in Headingley, or a green track in NZ, or a bouncy WACA pitch or a lightening fast Durban mamba or a turner in Mumbai or Colombo. Cricketers at least need to be given a fair chance. If they haven't even played with a particular ball and spend the series trying to come to grips with it the result will sound hollow and spectators will feel cheated. We want to see players adjust to conditions and not to the equipment itself. Duke and Kookaburra act totally different and even then the behavior changes year to year, probably due to less than stellar manufacturing quality processes. I mean when we have 2010 Duke balls behave so differently from 2011 batch then the game is no longer being played on an equal footing. Hell we can see a situation where say a team like B'desh can come up with their own variety which somehow grips the pitch lot more and doesn't bounce that much, and if they introduce that ball in FC then in the next couple of years they will virtually be unbeatable at home coz the teams will no longer need to adjust to conditions but to characteristics of the ball/equipment itself which should always be consistent.

[punjabi_khota]

"Only tests they have lost at home since 2007 are against Pakistan" SA beat them in 2008. Da fuq

[Crookbond]

The spectators deserve to see a game where teams are on even keel as far as cricketing equipment go. You already have pitches which add to complexity to the game and give home teams enough advantage. That advantage shouldn't go any further. Look at what Eng did when India was there - they used the balls from 2010 after they saw the 2011 vintage didn't swing as much against the Loins. That way it's not a test of skill but a cheap way to win at all costs.

Having different balls helps bring some of it. SG Ball is perfect for a place like India since the seam remains upright longer than the Kookaburra. You can't have the SG being used at places like SA, Aus and Eng because batsmen will be always under the radar. I think it's pretty ok at the moment.

[Ultimate_Game]

You are right to an extent. But' date= if you really see, the past decade did not have the home factor as much as it used to be. India won atleast 1 test match in all countries and many countries like SA, Oz have managed to play really competitive cricket in the SC. The example you pointed out is right where in it does become a cheap trick to win, but is that really is the case, then instead of keeping it as a suspense, the touring team should also be given the same exact set of conditions to practice. What I find baffling is, at times, teams go abroad in some random order and practice as per the prior experiences of coaches etc. Instead, keep everything intact and instead give the touring team the same set of conditions, atleast in terms of balls being used.

Home factor was always there as we didn't see India lose at home or even Aus lose that many. Loins are virtually unbeatable at home as well. As for India example, I think credit should go to one of the best batting lineups the world has ever seen with likes of Sehwag, Tendulkar, Dravid and Laxman paving way for our decent away performances. As you said we don't want to see cheap tricks as "let's unbottle the 2010 Dukes vintage coz it swings crazy" situation. I would want all the balls to actually be approved by the ICC before a series just as they check on security and pitches. It happens in all sports so why not cricket :dontknow:

[Ultimate_Game]

Having different balls helps bring some of it. SG Ball is perfect for a place like India since the seam remains upright longer than the Kookaburra. You can't have the SG being used at places like SA' date=' Aus and Eng because batsmen will be always under the radar. I think it's pretty ok at the moment.[/quote'] Well if SL and Pakis can play with say Kookaburra ball I am sure India can manage with the same.

[Vilander]

Don't think so. Cricket already provides enough challenges and varying conditions as it is. Standardising the ball will not make it easy for batsmen to adjust to say an overcast day in Headingley, or a green track in NZ, or a bouncy WACA pitch or a lightening fast Durban mamba or a turner in Mumbai or Colombo. Cricketers at least need to be given a fair chance. If they haven't even played with a particular ball and spend the series trying to come to grips with it the result will sound hollow and spectators will feel cheated. We want to see players adjust to conditions and not to the equipment itself. Duke and Kookaburra act totally different and even then the behavior changes year to year, probably due to less than stellar manufacturing quality processes. I mean when we have 2010 Duke balls behave so differently from 2011 batch then the game is no longer being played on an equal footing. Hell we can see a situation where say a team like B'desh can come up with their own variety which somehow grips the pitch lot more and doesn't bounce that much, and if they introduce that ball in FC then in the next couple of years they will virtually be unbeatable at home coz the teams will no longer need to adjust to conditions but to characteristics of the ball/equipment itself which should always be consistent.

hasnt the thought ever crossed your mind ?, what if the fact that it swings in headingley and bounces in waca has got more to do with the duke and kookabara in play than the conditions there. What if that is true mate ? shruder to think , cricket will die with out those variations. If any standardization is under taken it has to be tested so as to not mess the current difference in various geograpic playing conditions. This brings me to the second questions. Din't india ever try kookabura in india ?

[putrevus]

The spectators deserve to see a game where teams are on even keel as far as cricketing equipment go. You already have pitches which add to complexity to the game and give home teams enough advantage. That advantage shouldn't go any further. Look at what Eng did when India was there - they used the balls from 2010 after they saw the 2011 vintage didn't swing as much against the Loins. That way it's not a test of skill but a cheap way to win at all costs.

Did we get the same balls in the series or different balls.

[Needforspeed]

Din't india ever try kookabura in india ?

India did try the kookabura in some domestic matches last year. One issue is cost. The best quality kookabura is expected to cost Rs 15,000 when imported into India, while the best quality SG balls cost max Rs 1500 or even slightly less.

[Crookbond]

Well if SL and Pakis can play with say Kookaburra ball I am sure India can manage with the same.

Doesn't quite work that way - there's good rationale behind it & makes the game more even IMO. You shouldn't compare cricket to other sports else soon we will be asking for standardized pitches and it will become a physical game than a skill game. In the same vein, we should've managed with the 2010 Dukes ball in England as well.

[Ultimate_Game]

Did we get the same balls in the series or different balls.

After Eng struggled to beat SL 1-0 in Eng, Eng players complained the ball didn't swing enough, so ECB used Dukes balls from previous year (2010) for the India series. The ball moves appreciably more and for a longer time.

Doesn't quite work that way - there's good rationale behind it & makes the game more even IMO. You shouldn't compare cricket to other sports else soon we will be asking for standardized pitches and it will become a physical game than a skill game. In the same vein, we should've managed with the 2010 Dukes ball in England as well.

The rationale as NeedForSpeed has mentioned is cost. SG balls are locally made wherea Kookaburras have to be imported and more expensive. You know where BCCI stands when it has to cough out more money :giggle: Yes, we should have managed better with the 2010 Dukes ball but then you are asking our batsmen to adjust to conditions AND the ball (equipment) which is unfair IMO. If ICC had a proces in place they would have barred England from doing so and we wouldn't have been so heavily disadvantaged. Pitches is one thing but to actually go out of your way to get balls which swing more and for longer is against the "spirit of cricket" if you ask me.

[putrevus]

After Eng struggled to beat SL 1-0 in Eng, Eng players complained the ball didn't swing enough, so ECB used Dukes balls from previous year (2010) for the India series. The ball moves appreciably more and for a longer time. The rationale as NeedForSpeed has mentioned is cost. SG balls are locally made wherea Kookaburras have to be imported and more expensive. You know where BCCI stands when it has to cough out more money :giggle: Yes, we should have managed better with the 2010 Dukes ball but then you are asking our batsmen to adjust to conditions AND the ball (equipment) which is unfair IMO. If ICC had a proces in place they would have barred England from doing so and we wouldn't have been so heavily disadvantaged. Pitches is one thing but to actually go out of your way to get balls which swing more and for longer is against the "spirit of cricket" if you ask me.

if we got to use the same balls as they did then we should have no complaints, it doesn't matter what ball they use, they are the home team they should get the choice. Our team was just not good enough .

[Crookbond]

Yes, we should have managed better with the 2010 Dukes ball but then you are asking our batsmen to adjust to conditions AND the ball (equipment) which is unfair IMO. If ICC had a proces in place they would have barred England from doing so and we wouldn't have been so heavily disadvantaged. Pitches is one thing but to actually go out of your way to get balls which swing more and for longer is against the "spirit of cricket" if you ask me.

In the same vein, would you be asked to "standardize" other equipments like pads, gloves, bats, wicket keeper gloves etc.? Spirit of the cricket argument agreed not yet convinced on why not different balls for different surfaces as yet.

[panther]

why duke ball not help indian trundlers?

[Ultimate_Game]

In the same vein, would you be asked to "standardize" other equipments like pads, gloves, bats, wicket keeper gloves etc.? Spirit of the cricket argument agreed not yet convinced on why not different balls for different surfaces as yet.

I think most of the equipment is already standardised. Remember hue and cry about "extra" webbing in Dhoni's wk gloves in 2008 when India toured Aus. It quickly died down when a picture was shown of Gilchrist's gloves which had as big a webbing, if not bigger, than Dhoni's gloves :haha: Coming back to the point yes every equipment is standardised in all sports and that's what needs to be done in cricket as well if not already done. Taking the earlier example, if we don't do it then somebody like Akmal may start keeping wkts with huge oversized gloves. Not that would help Akmal much but you get the point :giggle:

[Ultimate_Game]

why duke ball not help indian trundlers?

Looking at the date you joined the forum, you probably did so in the hopes of trolling Indian fans in case Pakis somehow manage to beat India in the WC :giggle: Didn't happen and on top of that even the "revenge for the WC" went down the drain when Kohli gave you an @$$ whooping of a lifetime. To make matters worse India beat the vry same Loins easily which manhandled Pakis just a few weeks back on the very same pitches :haha: And now you are left trolling but with such a track record you don't even get much of a rise out of folks here. I would say you are Tony Greig of this forum - want so desperately to see Indians don't do well but at the end are left seething and impotent to do anything about it :cantstop:

[panther]

Looking at the date you joined the forum, you probably did so in the hopes of trolling Indian fans in case Pakis somehow manage to beat India in the WC :giggle: Didn't happen and on top of that even the "revenge for the WC" went down the drain when Kohli gave you an @$$ whooping of a lifetime. To make matters worse India beat the vry same Loins easily which manhandled Pakis just a few weeks back on the very same pitches :haha: And now you are left trolling but with such a track record you don't even get much of a rise out of folks here. I would say you are Tony Greig of this forum - want so desperately to see Indians don't do well but at the end are left seething and impotent to do anything about it :cantstop:

baseless assumptions.