The Narendra Modi thread

[The Outsider]

First of all it is irrelevant whether Advani is "in the frame" today or not. Nitish Kumar backed him in 2009 as the PM candidate. And now he wants no truck with Modi who was all throughout been supported and praised by Advani. It is clear his opposition to Modi is not based on principles but on expediency. This is the point post # 574 was making.

Even Vajpayee opposed Modi in 2002 and supported Advani in 2009. Vajpayee is also a hypocrite, so is everyone in politics.

[seedhi]

Even Vajpayee opposed Modi in 2002 and supported Advani in 2009. Vajpayee is also a hypocrite' date=' so is everyone in politics.[/quote']Vajpayee did not do a bhangra on secularism that Nitish is doing. Publicly he praised Modi for his handling of the situation.

[The Outsider]

Vajpayee did not do a bhangra on secularism that Nitish is doing. Publicly he praised Modi for his handling of the situation.

Vajpayee couldn't do that bhangraa because he was seeking reelection after being overruled by the high command and by 2009 or now he has pretty much given up any role in active politics. Nitish still has a sarkaar to run.

[Sachin=GOD]

Some thoughts on this topic: 1. IMO Nitish (and others who are crying "Modi is communal, Modi is communal...") doesn't give a sh!t about Modi's role in the riots - all he cares about is the image that Modi is guilty and the effect it will have on his Muslim vote bank. In 2002 he didn't have a big chunk of the Muslim votes in Bihar to protest and he was a powerful minister in the central Govt so he didn't say anything against Modi. Besides, at that time Modi was just another CM and nowhere close to being seen as a National leader (or even someone who had the potential to be a national leader). 2. The BJP workers are very, very happy with the idea of Modi as the PM candidate so the BJP now has no choice but to name him as the leader of the campaign for 2014 - that he cannot be the PM due to coalition constraints is another matter but if they name someone else then it will mean demoralizing the workers and that would pretty much mean UPA coming back to power. They may not name him right now but eventually he will be lead the campaign :( 3. Modi will in all probability be the leader of the BJP campaign in the elections but the PM will only be selected post elections and it will be a consensus candidate. In such a situation LK Advani still looks like the strongest contender because he is now acceptable to all allies. 4. The Congress is doing a big mistake by focusing all its attention on only one BJP leader. Every time they use the word "Modi" in a press conference, they give him more credibility as a potential threat to them and as the potential leader of the BJP. In fact I'd say that one major reason for so much media attention on Modi is because it seems as if Congress has already started treating him as the PM candidate.

[The Outsider]

Some thoughts on this topic: 1. IMO Nitish (and others who are crying "Modi is communal, Modi is communal...") doesn't give a sh!t about Modi's role in the riots - all he cares about is the image that Modi is guilty and the effect it will have on his Muslim vote bank. In 2002 he didn't have a big chunk of the Muslim votes in Bihar to protest and he was a powerful minister in the central Govt so he didn't say anything against Modi. Besides, at that time Modi was just another CM and nowhere close to being seen as a National leader (or even someone who had the potential to be a national leader).

Can you prove Muslims are a vote bank - I've lived in Lucknow longer than you have and can guarantee that I have seen more dark side of politics than you have but have never encountered a Muslim vote bank.

[Sachin=GOD]

Can you prove Muslims are a vote bank - I've lived in Lucknow longer than you have and can guarantee that I have seen more dark side of politics than you have but have never encountered a Muslim vote bank.

in the last assembly elections in UP, most seats in Lko were most certainly going to be won by BJP but the night before the election, some of the senior most SP leaders went and met with some senior Muslim clerics and when the results were out SP had won in almost all the Muslim dominated wards in the city - this never happened in Lko in the last 20 years because here many of Muslims stayed at home on election day instead of voting against the BJP but this time they voted en masse for SP and as a result SP won 3 out of the 5 seats in a city where the BJP had been winning all 5 seats for 20 years and where the BJP MLAs had done good work. Whether people like it or not, the reality of politics in some Indian states is that there are certain chunks of votes (Brahmins/Upper Caste, Muslims, SCs, Yadavs, Thakurs, Dalits etc) and whichever party gets the combination right (it can be Upper Caste+Thakurs or Muslims+Yadavs and SC/STs or Dalits+Muslims or some other combinations) wins the elections. The best example of this can be the Congress' performance in UP in 2009 - for the last 20 years the Cong had been performing poorly in Lok Sabha elections iin UP but suddenly out of nowhere it ended up winning 22 seats - this wasn't a result of Rahul Gandhi's magic, it was simply the right combination - Mulayam Singh joined hands with Kalyan Singh so a large part of SP's traditional Muslim votes went to the Congress so they won 22 seats.

[Sachin=GOD]

Can you prove Muslims are a vote bank - I've lived in Lucknow longer than you have and can guarantee that I have seen more dark side of politics than you have but have never encountered a Muslim vote bank.

http://content.ibnlive.in.com/article/28-Jan-2012politics/up-polls-vote-for-sp-shahi-imam-tells-muslims-225101-37.html http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=751946 - this meeting took place the night before polling was to take place in Lko.

[Sachin=GOD]

:phehehe:

[ravishingravi]

Wasn't Vajpayee the PM of India at the time of the riots and wanted to throw Modi out, but couldn't. If the Congress high command is with Sonia, the BJP high command is with RSS. Both exercise power with zero political responsibility. And Nitish was not the Home Minister, Advani was. Why should Nitish have quit if the PM himself wanted to throw out Modi but could not? :dontknow:

I never claimed Vajpayee to be secular or communal. Yea Vajpayee also said that Modi was following rajdharam. So not really sure if jury is in on that assertion. Either ways it doesn't say much for secularism if nitish's principles are subject to PM' s whims and fancies.

[Khalpat]

Khalpat bhau, woh Rajnath Singh tha ya Kalyan Singh? I am thinking it was Kalyan Singh. Wasn't it KS who was threatened by Shiv Prakash Shukla to be assasinated but STF got to him before that?

Shree Prakash Shukla, it was. Arshad Warsi and Pankaj Kapoor movie was also mad eon his story, Saher. Yes, you are right I think I messed up both Kalyan Si ngh and Rajnath singh tenure. But there were many so called mafia killed in police encounter during that period. And yes, there was also that NAKAL ADHYADHESH, man that year UP had 9% students only passing the exam. Rajnath was the education minister who brought that rule. That time gave the best comedy of politics: Mayawati and BJP deciding to go for 6 months each tenure and everytime Mayawati completed her 6 months, she kicked on the butt of BJP :hysterical: Jagdambika Pall was made CM for one day. Hillariously in one same day UP had two CM's.

[The Outsider]

in the last assembly elections in UP, most seats in Lko were most certainly going to be won by BJP but the night before the election, some of the senior most SP leaders went and met with some senior Muslim clerics and when the results were out SP had won in almost all the Muslim dominated wards in the city - this never happened in Lko in the last 20 years because here many of Muslims stayed at home on election day instead of voting against the BJP but this time they voted en masse for SP and as a result SP won 3 out of the 5 seats in a city where the BJP had been winning all 5 seats for 20 years and where the BJP MLAs had done good work. Whether people like it or not, the reality of politics in some Indian states is that there are certain chunks of votes (Brahmins/Upper Caste, Muslims, SCs, Yadavs, Thakurs, Dalits etc) and whichever party gets the combination right (it can be Upper Caste+Thakurs or Muslims+Yadavs and SC/STs or Dalits+Muslims or some other combinations) wins the elections. The best example of this can be the Congress' performance in UP in 2009 - for the last 20 years the Cong had been performing poorly in Lok Sabha elections iin UP but suddenly out of nowhere it ended up winning 22 seats - this wasn't a result of Rahul Gandhi's magic, it was simply the right combination - Mulayam Singh joined hands with Kalyan Singh so a large part of SP's traditional Muslim votes went to the Congress so they won 22 seats.

That's such a rubbish analysis and frankly expected better from you as you come across as someone who is quite interested in politics. LOL! at some Mullah able to coax Muslims out to vote en mass against BJP. If only things were that easy. There are proper well researched articles which have debunked the myth of the Muslim vote bank with solid reasoning and statistics. Go and read up on them.

[The Outsider]

I never claimed Vajpayee to be secular or communal. Yea Vajpayee also said that Modi was following rajdharam. So not really sure if jury is in on that assertion. Either ways it doesn't say much for secularism if nitish's principles are subject to PM' s whims and fancies.

Vajpayee asked Modi to follow Raj Dharma.

The Prime Minister, Atal Behari Vajpayee, tonight announced a rehabilitation package and Central assistance for the victims of the communal riots in Gujarat while asking the Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, to observe his ``Raj dharma'' without showing any discrimination between the people on the basis of caste, creed or religion.

http://www.hindu.com/2002/04/05/stories/2002040509161100.htm Great Bong uncle said something else? :dontknow:

[someone]

Modi as a 'backward leader', Nitish as an upper caste 'hero' One Bihar party leader went one step further to insist: “Nitish is afraid of Narendra Modi because it is for the first time a national party has projected an OBC leader as the prime ministerial candidate. In fact, this is rattling all the leaders championing social justice.” http://indianexpress.com/news/modi-as-a-backward-leader-nitish-as-an-upper-caste-hero/1102578/ Interesting and imo, there is more to it than what is seen.

[Sachin=GOD]

That's such a rubbish analysis and frankly expected better from you as you come across as someone who is quite interested in politics. LOL! at some Mullah able to coax Muslims out to vote en mass against BJP. If only things were that easy. There are proper well researched articles which have debunked the myth of the Muslim vote bank with solid reasoning and statistics. Go and read up on them.

it may look rubbish but its the reality in UP now. Can those articles explain how/why Mulayam won only 20 seats in Lok Sabha 2009 despite the fact that BSP (which had been ruling the state since 2007, had done such a bad job that the law and order situation in UP was worsening with every passing day and almost all the development was happening only for a particular section of the society) and Cong (which had been running the Central Govt since 2004 and had not done anything for the people of UP and had no state leadership to speak of) and BJP (which had not been able to position itself as a viable alternative in UP) had not done a good job and in case of the BJP and Cong, didn't even have good state leadership. SP was expected to win at least 30-35 seats but ended up winning only 20 - there are several articles that show how SP lost many seats because their candidates didn't get enough votes in Muslim dominated areas throughout the state. Go and read up on them. BTW, you may not believe in Muslim Vote Banks but it seems Mulayam Singh certainly did: Mulayam sorry for Kalyan tie

Lucknow, July 15: Mulayam Singh Yadav today apologised to Muslims for joining hands with one-time Ayodhya hardliner Kalyan Singh during the 2009 general election, vowing not to repeat the mistake in the future. In a signed statement, the Samajwadi Party chief said he had associated himself with “some wrong political elements” to stop communal forces from coming to power at the Centre, hurting the sentiments of Muslims and causing confusion about his secular credentials. “I tender my apology to all, specially to my Muslim brothers. I want to assure them that I will not make any mistake like this in future and re-dedicate myself to protect their honour and work for their welfare,” Mulayam said. Without referring to Kalyan by name, he iterated: “Looking back, I now think it was my own mistake. I am not going to repeat this mistake.” Muslim clerics, however, refused to buy his apology, saying mere words were not enough. Zafaryab Jilani, the Babri Masjid Action Committee convener, said: “Muslims will be convinced only if Mulayam acts on what he has promised.” This is the first time Mulayam has apologised to the minorities, who were outraged by his decision to align with Kalyan in January 2009 to pocket the Lodh votes in western Uttar Pradesh. He won two seats there, but lost several Muslim-dominated ones in the bargain, including Ferozabad that has an over 40 per cent minority population. Muslims account for 17 per cent of the votes in Uttar Pradesh. Sources said the immediate trigger for the apology was his son and state Samajwadi Party president Akhilesh Yadav’s suggestion that minorities had lost faith in the party and they needed to be wooed back ahead of the 2012 Uttar Pradesh elections. Akhilesh had recently travelled to various parts of the state and addressed rallies. Sources said he grew uneasy after finding that the minorities by and large avoided his rallies. A subsidiary reason was Mulayam’s former aide Amar Singh’s statements at various rallies that the 2009 compromise with Kalyan was entirely the Samajwadi chief’s decision. The two fell out this February. Mulayam himself recently met Muslim leaders who told him they feared he had lost minority support. Although Mulayam snapped ties with Kalyan late in 2009, the minorities have not forgotten his link-up with Kalyan, popularly known as the Ayodhya face of the BJP in Uttar Pradesh. Attempting to make amends, Mulayam said in the statement: “My life is an open book on the struggle for secular values. As chief minister of Uttar Pradesh in 1990, I ensured that no harm was caused to Babri mosque. But on December 6, 1992, when the BJP government was in power, the mosque was demolished.” Kalyan, now the chief of the Jan Kranti Party, said Mulayam’s apology was “a desperate attempt to make necessary repairs to his fake ideology”. He claimed Mulayam owed an apology to the backward classes because he had “betrayed” them as well. Mulayam also had the habit of “ditching” people he tied up with, the latest casualty being Amar Singh, he added. “There is a long history of Mulayam back-stabbing others. How many apologies can you make in your career?” Kalyan said from Aligarh.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1100716/jsp/nation/story_12690102.jsp Some more links for you: http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2009-01-28/lucknow/28012240_1_kalyan-singh-sp-and-kalyan-babri-masjid http://www.telegraphindia.com/1111124/jsp/nation/story_14792870.jsp http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/28samajwadi-muslim-mps-protest-kalyan-singh-tieup.htm

[The Outsider]

So, Mulayam found out only after tie up with Kalyan about the Muslim vote bank despite being in politics for 50 years?

[Lurker]

Modi as a 'backward leader', Nitish as an upper caste 'hero' One Bihar party leader went one step further to insist: “Nitish is afraid of Narendra Modi because it is for the first time a national party has projected an OBC leader as the prime ministerial candidate. In fact, this is rattling all the leaders championing social justice.” http://indianexpress.com/news/modi-as-a-backward-leader-nitish-as-an-upper-caste-hero/1102578/ Interesting and imo, there is more to it than what is seen.

:haha: Arre bhai Nitish Kumar khud OBC hai bhai.

[Sachin=GOD]

So' date=' Mulayam found out only after tie up with Kalyan about the Muslim vote bank despite being in politics for 50 years?[/quote'] He knew that there was a risk of losing some Muslim votes but he was counting on bringing in the Lodh votes which are loyal to Kalyan Singh but he didn't realize that Kalyan Singh was no longer influential among them. In the end, not only did he not gain any Lodh votes, he also lost the traditional Muslim votes he used to get.

[The Outsider]

He knew that there was a risk of losing some Muslim votes but he was counting on bringing in the Lodh votes which are loyal to Kalyan Singh but he didn't realize that Kalyan Singh was no longer influential among them. In the end' date=' not only did he not gain any Lodh votes, he also lost the traditional Muslim votes he used to get.[/quote'] Look, there are voting blocks but Muslim vote in not a uniform voting block by any means. At best it is a block which would say that they will not vote for BJP, but that does not translate into a vote for a particular party in block and in UP politics the vote is invariably fractured. There are so many groups and diversity in class, wealth, and social structure among Muslims that to consider them as a voting block who will vote like a herd for some particular candidate is naive.

[Lurker]

Shree Prakash Shukla, it was. Arshad Warsi and Pankaj Kapoor movie was also mad eon his story, Saher. Yes, you are right I think I messed up both Kalyan Si ngh and Rajnath singh tenure. But there were many so called mafia killed in police encounter during that period. And yes, there was also that NAKAL ADHYADHESH, man that year UP had 9% students only passing the exam. Rajnath was the education minister who brought that rule.

lol I do remember that. Hamare ghar mein bhi everybody was thinking how it was the dawn of a new era no cheating and all, till 9% success rate came through :cantstop: I was in college finishing off my Engineering, remember teasing my UP friends no end.

[Sachin=GOD]

Look' date=' there are voting blocks but Muslim vote in not a uniform voting block by any means. At best it is a block which would say that they will not vote for BJP, but that does not translate into a vote for a particular party in block and in UP politics the vote is invariably fractured. There are so many groups and diversity in class, wealth, and social structure among Muslims that to consider them as[b'] a voting block who will vote like a herd for some particular candidate is naive.

of course they won't. What I'm trying to say is that a significant number of them will vote for some particular candidate if they are told to do so and in a state like UP, "a significant number" may mean something like 30% of the total number of Muslims who vote.