The Outsider Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 of course they won't. What I'm trying to say is that a significant number of them will vote for some particular candidate if they are told to do so and in a state like UP' date=' "a significant number" may mean something like 30% of the total number of Muslims who vote.[/quote'] The 25-30% number sounds like a reasonable assumption, but I disagree that such a large number can get swayed by a statement of some Mullah a day before the election. It can be a contributing factor, but hardly the deciding factor.
Sachin=GOD Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 ‘The ghosts of Gujarat 2002 will haunt Modi till his last days’ Editor’s Note: Journalist Kingshuk Nag had an agenda while writing book on BJP leader Narendra Modi. He wanted to present a balanced view of Modi. After all, how often does the son of a tea vendor rise to the stature of a prime ministerial candidate? “You can love him, or hate him, depending upon your predilection, but there is no way that you can ignore Narendra Modi. He is one of few, truly enigmatic personalities gracing the contemporary indian political scene,” writes Nag in the introduction to The NaMo Story: A Political Life, published by Roli Books. Nag’s book offers the reader intriguing tit-bits – did you know Modi had been married as a child but rejected the marriage when he grew up? – about the politician’s life and remarkable career. It neither lionises nor demonises Modi, instead, the book presents an ambitious politician who is hardworking, intelligent and determined. The benefits of Modi as a leader can be seen in the success of his ‘Vibrant Gujarat’ campaign and Nag writes in detail about how Modi won the confidence of industrialists and investors. It is because Nag’s perspective is balanced that the book’s account of the 2002 Gujarat riots is worth recounting. It’s an unbiased report from someone who was in Gujarat and who is appreciative of the good that Modi has done for the state. An excerpt from Kingshuk Nag’s book, The NaMo Story: A Political Life, on Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s political career. Having witnessed the riots closely, I can say with authority that any government that showed such indifference in controlling the carnage elsewhere in the country would have been dismissed immediately and the state put under President’s rule. But Modi’s godfather, LK Advani, was the home minister. While he steadfastly protected Modi, other Modi well-wishers, like Arun Jaitely, argued in Delhi that the liberal press in Gujarat was ‘hyping’ the situation and misreporting. The then BJP president, Jana Krishnamurthy and RSS leader, Kushabhau Thakre also lobbied for Modi within the organization. Even as international condemnation mounted thick and fast, President KR Narayanan wrote to Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, expressing his concern. On 4 April, disturbed by the reports, Vajpayee arrived in Gujarat. He advised Modi to follow ‘rajdharma’ only to receive an angry riposte from the chief minister on live television that he was, indeed, doing so. Organizations like Human Rights Watch (HRW) documented the horrors of post-Godhra violence. Appropriately, the HRW report was titled: ‘We have no orders to save you’. The allusion was to the police response to Muslims seeking help. A team of the Editors Guild of India too compiled a report on the ‘horrors’ of the riot and noted the ‘supine, if not complicit behaviour of the state.’ During the long rioting, I had occasion to meet Modi a couple of times. In private, Modi pleaded helplessness and said that he was trying to do his best.‘Apko pata nahin Musalmanon ke liye merey dil mein kitna dard hai,’ he told me, thumping his chest. [‘You don’t realize how much I sympathise with the Muslims.’] But these private statements did not tally with his public responses. I also remember how angry he was with police officer Rahul Sharma who had refused to raid a madarsa,‘for trying to seek cheap publicity and act like a hero.’ Modi was never seen coming out in public to campaign for peace. His movements suggested the contrary. Though he had visited Godhra and consoled victims of the carnage, he failed to visit the sites of other massacres like Naroda Patiya and Gulberg society immediately. Perhaps he was too scared to face the relatives of the victims. In spite of this support in his home state, an agitated Vajpayee, himself under attack for persisting with Modi, ultimately decided to get rid of the chief minister. On 11 April, I received a phone call from the close aide of the then governor, Sundar Singh Bhandari to tell me that Arun Jaitely, the law minister at the time, was flying in from Delhi to secure Modi’s resignation and that it would be announced at the national executive meeting of the BJP slated in Goa the next day. But Modi pulled off a coup. At the Goa meeting, second-rung leaders of the BJP came out in strong support of Modi. Vajpayee was left red-faced and, to salvage the situation, turned strident himself. Modi was upset that the Lyngdoh-led election Commission refused to hold elections before November, on the grounds that conditions had not returned to normal and that it was not possible to revise the electoral rolls. The election Commission made a reference to the Supreme Court and the latter agreed. Meanwhile, Modi publicly mocked the Election Commissioner, referring to his Christian origin and therewith his supposed closeness to another Christian, Sonia Gandhi, as the reason for ‘biased’ action. He said that all this was ‘sochi samjhi saazish’ [‘a planned conspiracy’] that sought to target the ‘gaurav’ [‘valour’] of Gujarat. Modi also alleged that Lyngdoh was more interested in getting elections organized in Jammu & Kashmir than in Gujarat. In his public utterances, Modi would refer to Lyngdoh by his full name James Michael Lyngdoh, so that the people could immediately identify him as a Christian. Though the elections were being delayed, Modi was in a hurry to cash in on the sentiments that had come to the fore in the last few months. Therefore, with the support of the BJP at national level, he launched a multi-phase Gujarat Gaurav Yatra that would continue to roll right up to the elections. The yatra began on 6 September from a place in central Gujarat and, in phases, went to tribal areas of north and central Gujarat and other places: mostly those affected by the riots. Modi said that the yatra was meant to launch an agenda different from Godhra and post-Godhra. But his utterances left no one in doubt about what his game plan was. Reportedly, he started the yatra saying that the ‘Congress cannot return to power wearing Italian spectacles’ and charged that Sonia Gandhi was taking the advice of ‘Rome’s Pope’. Modi also berated Sonia for having said that Gujarat was becoming ‘Godse’s Gujarat’. ‘The Congress, pseudo secularists and Musharraf are all speaking the same language,’ he railed. ‘None of them utter a word on Godhra but abuse Gujarat only for what happened afterwards.’ During the yatra, Modi made other controversial statements too. One such was ‘paanch ke pacchis’, an allusion to the high population growth amongst Muslims. It soon seemed as though the BJP’s top leaders themselves were becoming hostage to Modi’s politics. Advani, who was elevated from home minister to deputy prime minister, declared that Modi was the best chief minister that Gujarat had ever had. The election that followed was the most polarized that Gujarat has ever seen. Modi romped home with 127 seats in an assembly of 182, with a vote percentage of 49.85 of all votes polled. The Congress got only 51 seats but secured 39.55 percent of all the popular votes. A triumphant Modi took the oath at a grand ceremony at the Sardar Patel Stadium in Ahmedabad in the presence of a huge turnout and VIPs, including Prime Minister Vajpayee. It now seemed as though the Gujarat chief minister was the supervisor of even the Prime Minister of India. But given the huge number of organizations, groups, and individuals arraigned against him, Modi’s troubles were far from over. They were not ready to absolve the strong man of Gujarat of any wrongdoing, just because he had emerged victorious at the elections. Organizations like Centre for Justice and Peace, headed by activist Teesta Setalvad, a Hindu Gujarati woman, were established to fight for justice for the riot victims. The chinks in the armour of the blatantly biased Gujarat government’s official machinery, in fact, opened the doors for those fighting for justice in the state. When all the accused in the well-publicized Best Bakery Case were let off in July 2003 because the prosecution put up a poor case and the witnesses (under duress) turned hostile, eyebrows began to be raised in legal circles outside Gujarat. Though the Best Bakery case was the 37th riot case in which the accused had been acquitted, none of the others were big enough to capture public imagination. Referring to the ‘administrators of Gujarat’ (in a veiled reference to Modi and his men), the supreme Court compared them to ‘modern-day Nero’, who were looking elsewhere when innocent children and helpless women were being assaulted, and probably deliberating on how the perpetrators could best be protected. The SC quashed the trial in the Best Bakery Case and directed a fresh re-trial in Maharashtra. In March 2008, after long legal procedures, the Supreme Court set up a Special Investigations Team (sit), headed by former CBI director R.K. Raghavan. In May 2009, the apex court ordered trials under the supervision of sit in six major riot cases. The Supreme Court’s order was in the interests of the criminal justice system and to address lacunae in the investigations and trials of these cases. The Godhra, Naroda Patiya and Gulberg society cases were among the cases included in this batch. As noted before, the Godhra case came to fruition and so did the Naroda Patiya case. In August 2012 a total of 32 accused were convicted, including Modi’s former minister, Maya Kodnani and Babu Bajrangi. In April 2012, a total of 23 persons were convicted in the Ode case and in July 2012, another 22 persons were convicted in the Dipda Darwaza case. In september 2011 for the Gulberg society case, Modi himself was called in for interrogation by the SIT. There were allegations that the slain MP, Ehsan Jafri, had even called up Modi for help. Modi denied both knowing Jafri and receiving a call from him. He also said that he had not referred to a ‘Hindu reaction’ at official meetings. As for the shifting of bodies from Godhra to Ahmedabad, Modi effectively put the blame on the district collector of Godhra, Jayanti Ravi, saying that she was not keen to keep the bodies in Godhra. When confronted with his action-reaction statement (Godhra leading to post-Godhra), he said that it was a general statement, pointing that Gujarat had a long history of communal disturbances going back to 1714. He also made light of his paanch ke pacchhis statement, saying that it referred to the general problems of family planning and not to a specific community. At the end of investigations, the SIT let Modi off. But the amicus curae in the case, Raju Ramachandran, stirred up a hornet’s nest by stating that there was indeed some evidence under which Modi could be hauled up. It can be safely predicted that the last of this matter has not been heard. The ghosts of Gujarat 2002 are likely to haunt Narendra Modi till his last days. From The NaMo Story: A Political Life, by Kingshuk Nag (Roli Books, Rs. 295). Reprinted with permission from the publisher. http://www.firstpost.com/living/the-ghosts-of-gujarat-2002-will-haunt-modi-till-his-last-days-706296.html
ravishingravi Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 ^Very interesting. I ll read the book. I believe SIT has recommended death sentence for Maya Kodnani and 10 others. Gujarat government to seek death penalty for Kodnani, Bajrangi http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/gujarat-govt-to-seek-death-for-maya-kodnani/article4626829.ece
Khalpat Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 ^Very interesting. I ll read the book. I believe SIT has recommended death sentence for Maya Kodnani and 10 others. Gujarat government to seek death penalty for Kodnani, Bajrangi http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/gujarat-govt-to-seek-death-for-maya-kodnani/article4626829.ece Interesting move. No one will discuss on this as Modi has recommended death for Kodnani and Babu Bajrangi. VHP and RSS are red faced, but this move again give me ample reason to think of giving this person one chance to lead the country.
CSK Fan Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Interesting move. No one will discuss on this as Modi has recommended death for Kodnani and Babu Bajrangi. VHP and RSS are red faced' date=' but this move again give me ample reason to think of giving this person one chance to lead the country.[/quote'] Lol, yeah very convininetly at election time. Its more likely he has used these people and now has no use for them, so he is trying to change his image
jairamesh Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 ^Very interesting. I ll read the book. I believe SIT has recommended death sentence for Maya Kodnani and 10 others. Gujarat government to seek death penalty for Kodnani, Bajrangi http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/gujarat-govt-to-seek-death-for-maya-kodnani/article4626829.ece Now wait for main stream media to spin this as blow to Modi and how it will alienate his voters blah blah, whilst completely ignoring justice being served with the right sentence. Alas the nation still awaits for it's first conviction of 1984 countrywide mass murder of Sikhs by Congress supporters.
Crookbond Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Interesting move. No one will discuss on this as Modi has recommended death for Kodnani and Babu Bajrangi. VHP and RSS are red faced' date= but this move again give me ample reason to think of giving this person one chance to lead the country. It has been discussed well enough in the media.
saneindian Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 14.47: Narendra Modi faces assassination threat? Does Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi faces the threat of being assassinated? Academic Madhu Kishwar believes so. Kishwar on Wednesday talked about the possibility of Modi facing an assassination attempt on Twitter. She tweeted, "Yesterday met some senior govt officers who said Modi's assassination real possibility if Teesta Congress fail to get fraud FIR against Modi." She was referring to civil rights activist Teesta Setalvad. When the tweet went viral on the social networking website and led to debate over the authenticity of the post, the academician deleted the tweet saying it had led to panic. Kishwar, a supporter of Modi, is a Senior Fellow at the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies http://news.rediff.com/commentary/2013/apr/18/liveupdates.htm I hope its a mere wild speculation. There have been reports about him being target of LeT etc for 2002 riots though.
Khalpat Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 Lol' date=' yeah very convininetly at election time. Its more likely he has used these people and now has no use for them, so he is trying to change his image[/quote'] There is more than one year left for elections right? Aise to for everything there is election time sometime Vidhan Sabha sometime Loksabha. Vidhansabha election is just 4 years after and all...
ravishingravi Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 There is more than one year left for elections right? Aise to for everything there is election time sometime Vidhan Sabha sometime Loksabha. Vidhansabha election is just 4 years after and all... It is classical case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.
ravishingravi Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Modi vs Modi: Sushil takes a backseat as Narendra rises http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/modi-vs-modi-sushil-takes-a-backseat-as-narendra-rises/articleshow/19624851.cms
ravishingravi Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Btw having seen the entire speech, interesting to see that one of the reasons Nitish Kumar doubts Modi's "secular" credentials because he did not wear the cap offered by the Mullah. Ofcourse having a mullah felicitated on stage, is not relevant. I think it further reinforces my view that fight for India's "soul" if you may call it, is not communal v/s secular. It is fundamentalist v/s moderates. I would never have thought few years back that secular person can be fundamentalist or fanatic. But what I have observed here in India through our politicians, media, citizens and online warriors is that essentially they are mirror image of communal junta. They are as bigoted, hardline, hypocrite, prejudiced as the other lot.
Sachin=GOD Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 BJP-JD(U): on the brink? How will a break-up between Nitish Kumar’s JD(U) and the BJP affect the outcome of the 2014 Lok Sabha poll and the 2015 Bihar assembly election? Consider first the Lok Sabha poll. In the last five general elections (1996-2009), the Congress has registered an average voteshare of 27.60% and won an average of 149 parliamentary seats. The BJP during the same period has averaged 22.12% voteshare and 156 seats. This means that the BJP with 5.48% lower national voteshare, averaged out over the 1996, 1998, 1999, 2004 and 2009 general elections, has won 7 more Lok Sabha seats on average over these five elections than the Congress. The conclusion is two-fold: One, that BJP support is more concentrated but in fewer constituencies. With lower voteshare, it has still managed to get first past the post in a semi-polarised environment, albeit within a smaller geography. Two, that in the constituencies where it is strong, the BJP has struck positive seat sharing alliances with partners (Shiv Sena in Maharashtra, JD(U) in Bihar, SAD in Punjab) which has resulted in a greater voteshare-to-seat conversion efficiency. In contrast, the Congress with its wider but diffuse geographical footprint has not been able to translate greater voteshare into more seats. If you discount its 2009 tally of 206 seats, the Congress in four previous elections between 1996 and 2004 averaged a mere 135 seats. It won 141 seats in 1998 but could not form a government. In 2004 it got lucky: with just 4 more seats (145), it managed to cobble together UPA-1 with the Left’s block of 61 seats. The BJP (138) won just 7 seats less than the Congress in 2004 but was in effect blocked by the Left’s casting vote. (Given the scams of 2004-09, unravelling now, Left leaders must be questioning their own wisdom.) What does all this augur for 2014? Hit by scams and anti-incumbency, the Congress could well sink below its historical low voteshare of 25.82% in 1998. It won 141 seats in that general election. With many constituencies since delimited and redrawn, its seat total – despite direct cash transfers and the food security bill – could plummet to its 1999 all-time low of 114. (The TimesNow-CVoter opinion poll, released on April 16, 2013, in fact projects 113 seats for the Congress. My projection, posted in Countdown to 2014 - or 2013? on March 25, 2013, gave the Congress 107 seats.) Will the BJP, uncertain about its future leadership, fare any better? Its 1996-2009 voteshare average of 22.12% will need to rise by at least 3% to around 25.50% – the level it crossed in 1998 when it won 182 seats. If Narendra Modi is declared the party’s Prime Ministerial candidate, will that voteshare bump up by another, say, 2%? That would geometrically translate into between 30 and 40 extra Lok Sabha seats, more than offsetting the loss of Nitish Kumar’s 20 seats. Only with 200+ seats can the BJP and its allies (Shiv Sena, SAD, HJC, AGP) and proto-allies (AIADMK, TRS, independents), with 70-odd seats between them, take the NDA comfortably past 272 seats – without the JD(U), TMC, BSP and BJD. As the BJP core committee meets on Thursday, April 18, to decide on the JD(U) question, the Bihar assembly elections, due in November 2015, will weigh heavily. Modi’s appeal as an OBC (in fact he is an EBC – Extremely Backward Caste) in Bihar and the rest of the Hindi heartland – which, unlike the caste-obsessed Nitish, Modi has never emphasized – could come into play. OBCs and EBCs, apart from the BJP’s Brahmin base, could again offset the Muslim vote that would exit with the JD(U) in Bihar. However, a triangular contest between the JD(U), BJP and Congress-RJD in the Lok Sabha and assembly elections in 2014 and 2015 could deliver a fractious verdict – a point both the BJP and the JD(U)’s local leaders in Bihar are acutely aware of. In the end, the BJP will have to decide which is in its electoral interest: staying stuck at around 150 seats as projected where even faux secular allies like the JD(U) will be of little numerical value in crossing 272 or going for broke with a strong leader. It could be a risk – but being stuck at 150, and relying on temperamental allies, is hardly a better option. http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/headon/entry/bjp-jd-u-on-the-brink Very interesting. BJP has actually won more seats with a less vote share than Cong. I agree with the article in that BJP would be better off going with a strong leader because that is the only thing that can unite the party now.
saneindian Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 Btw having seen the entire speech, interesting to see that one of the reasons Nitish Kumar doubts Modi's "secular" credentials because he did not wear the cap offered by the Mullah. Ofcourse having a mullah felicitated on stage, is not relevant. I think it further reinforces my view that fight for India's "soul" if you may call it, is not communal v/s secular. It is fundamentalist v/s moderates. I would never have thought few years back that secular person can be fundamentalist or fanatic. But what I have observed here in India through our politicians, media, citizens and online warriors is that essentially they are mirror image of communal junta. They are as bigoted, hardline, hypocrite, prejudiced as the other lot. And Nitish Kumar got exposed for his Tilak and Topi remark on that very day. VAGx2VKEaCk
ravishingravi Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 And Nitish Kumar got exposed for his Tilak and Topi remark on that very day. VAGx2VKEaCk :giggle:
The Outsider Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 It is classical case of damned if you do and damned if you dont. Exactly, Modi phaansi lagaye to chamatkar, Congress lagaye to balatkaar This is to counter modi affect. Nailed it. Having said that, I am not for death penalty http://indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2261781&postcount=11
someone Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 http://www.manushi.in/articles.php?articleId=1685&ptype=&pgno=1 That's one excellent article and imo, must read. And there are plenty of examples like this. Perhaps, Zafar Sareshwala is one of the well-known examples. And I still feel disgusted that how the so called secularists publicity humiliated this man for not being "a Muslim". That completely exposes the sad reality here and why India will never succeed when many simply follow "convenient secularism". Modi very much deserves an opportunity to run for the PM.
ravishingravi Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 And Nitish Kumar got exposed for his Tilak and Topi remark on that very day. VAGx2VKEaCk This was great comment on YT that nailed the perversion of the concept of secularism "Which Muslims go 2 temple,do any Muslim chant om Namah shivay,do they do idol worship or for that matter wear a TOPI written jai Sri ram on it? No so why do modi has 2 wear a Muslim topi 2 be called a secular when they can't do d same. This is not tit-for-tat but d meaning of secularism that respect all religion but follow/practice whatever ya believe in. Unfortunately khan-gress has started this topi culture followed by other parties just 2 woo/appease Muslim community but Do nothing for them."
Lurker Posted April 19, 2013 Posted April 19, 2013 This was great comment on YT that nailed the perversion of the concept of secularism "Which Muslims go 2 temple,do any Muslim chant om Namah shivay,do they do idol worship or for that matter wear a TOPI written jai Sri ram on it? No so why do modi has 2 wear a Muslim topi 2 be called a secular when they can't do d same. This is not tit-for-tat but d meaning of secularism that respect all religion but follow/practice whatever ya believe in. Unfortunately khan-gress has started this topi culture followed by other parties just 2 woo/appease Muslim community but Do nothing for them." SRK does. Salman too Or do they not count? :winky:
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